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What does "sustainable fashion" mean during the pandemic?

LaPed

Veteran

One of the few fashion blogs I follow aside from YLF is StyleWise, and I've really been appreciating Leah's thoughts the past couple of months, especially the following:

"I no longer believe that “ethical” perfection can ever coexist with capitalism, especially in light of immense wage disparities and other systemic barriers among would-be consumers. We are staring this reality in the face right now. Companies must make value judgments that necessarily exclude other values."

Her post reflects on the decisions made in the past weeks by Elizabeth Suzann, Everlane, Eileen Fisher, and other companies that have branded themselves as ethical or sustainable.

https://stylewise-blog.com/wha.....e-fashion/

All of us have had to alter our habits, but I'm curious to know how others' values are changing (or not) in these new circumstances. I haven't been shopping much at all, beyond purchasing a few masks from local makers and buying groceries every few weeks. I can't quite wrap my head around what an ethical purchase would look like. One that keeps people employed, or one that keeps people safe? How do we even distinguish which companies are doing either of those things?

28 replies

Latest reply was from Laura (rhubarbgirl)

rachylou

Veteran

Frankly, in my mind, a universal basic income makes a lot of sense. You can’t go off into the wild and scavenge food and shelter. There is no ‘wild’ - there’s always someone upstream blocking the water. Radical structural change is the only way forward.

I was just watching something on tv about Athens and the battle at Marathon and the discovery of silver nearby... this guy convinced Athens to use that silver collectively to build a navy against the return of the Persians. It’s amazing that they did it. One thinks about the Gold Rush in the US.

We’d have to back to E Pluribus Unum (sp?) tho. Stop dissing the Melting Pot idea. It’s a social change more than a purchasing choice.

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

This is something that I've been grappling with since before the pandemic, for sure. I do think that large companies need to STOP MAKING SO MANY CLOTHES, and think that smaller businesses are more easily able to do things like track supply chains and control growth, but I'm also well aware that my ability to make the choices I'm making is, in no small part, funded by my husband's job at one of the biggest companies in the world, so I'm constantly having to remember to look at the source of my privilege.

I've probably mentioned this before, but one of my brothers works in government policy for Walmart, and I've learned a lot from our discussions, mostly that things are not as clear-cut as I would like them to be. Transparency is key in all this, but we also need to be savvy enough consumers to be able to look at those transparent supply chains and labor conditions and make a judgement as to whether we're satisfied with what's happening. Transparency alone (looking at you, Everlane) isn't enough, and as Leah said, we need educators and activists who are capable of really digging in to VERY complicated issues...both to help us make the best decisions as consumers, and to help the industry make the best choices for sustainability, which includes not just environmental stewardship, but also social and economic pillars that allow companies to grow and produce responsibly.

(Not to be at all self-promotey, but I wrote a blog post about some of this a while back, trying to grapple with some of these questions, while offering a non-overwhelming framework for decision-making.)

Cardiff girl

Veteran

I agree that it’s so hard to make that call right now.Food and equipment are about the only things I can see myself I buying at the moment.Trying to establish which retailers are treating their staff well is just impossible in many cases besides I think that supporting small local retailers who are pulling out all the stops to keep going feels like the right thing to do and I totally agree with Jenn that the whole fashion cycle of constant new drops of clothes sometimes on a weekly basis is unsustainable.supply chains have become too global so companies have been able to distance themselves from their responsibilities regarding workers in other countries.

Jenni NZ

Veteran

I like Jenn’s answer and her blog post which I just read. My personal decision is not to “support the economy” as a general term, because I agree with Jenn’s capital letters that I want large companies to STOP MAKING SO MANY CLOTHES. However there are obviously huge implications of that say for factory workers in Bangladesh. And we have always supported charities in the third world, such as Microenterprise, the giving of small honest loans in countries such as Bangladesh or similar.
The experience of building our new home in 2018 was distressing for purporting to support environmental efforts. There was so much waste that went to landfill and I couldn’t easily change any of that. And while in our country we need more housing, a big new house wasn’t really helping the kind of housing we need, because only the top 10-20% of the population could probably afford my house, because I am privileged, which I try to remember on a daily basis. So I have decided to do my best to buy New Zealand made in the future, for clothing anyway. Or secondly to that, NZ designed from smaller companies. Some of those have sustainability information on their websites. I find my own inadvertent hypocrisy about all this difficult to manage but will keep trying. I don’t personally feel that spending my money to “help the economy”, when the world economy is overall so exploitative, is the right decision for me. As I have said before to you, La Ped, I am a tight-wad, so I will try to release my fist that holds onto money to purchases that are as ethical as I can manage without total self-paralysis!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

It's VERY, VERY, VERY hard.

Ethical and sustainable fashion means different things to different people, AND the goal posts shift during a worldwide pandemic. There are hectic compromises at best, and no perfect decisions at this point. Ethical and sustainable purchasing is HUGELY wrapped up in complicated political, social and economic issues that we can do very little about. Policy and social change has to come from the top for real change.

In the meantime, you have to decide what ethical and sustainable means to YOU, and run with it.

At this point, the fashion retailers I purchase from are trying to be sustainable, and have goals and long term strategies in place. More importantly, I want to support companies that helped our healthcare workers, made donations to the COVID-19 crisis, and tried to keep their staff during the pandemic.

Jenn, loved your post

Runcarla

Veteran

Wear what I’ve got. Keep it in good repair for as long as possible. Remake/repurpose when I want an update. Shopping thrift/second hand, with an eye to durability and repurposing.

8 pairs of pants is enough, and 26 tops MORE than enough. When they need replacing, I will look at the provenance of the garment, the fabric content, durability, and applicability to my lifestyle. If I want ‘newness’ I will consider how I might modify a garment. I am becoming more and more interested in thrifting. I noticed JCrew is selling a white denim shift dress almost identical to the one I thrifted last year!

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Anonymous

I like what Angie says about the whole thing being horribly complicated, and you have to make choices. As much as I can, I like to support local and small business- but right now, big warehouse delivery is where things may be available. The workers are treated poorly, but people in my area will commute 45+ minutes because the few available closer jobs pay several $ less an hour.
I too would like to see less things being made, due to all the waste created, and also don't want factory workers in Bangladesh to lose their homes and/or starve.
For me, it's being picky about what I really need for my life, what suits my body and coloring, and what seems like it will last. And then wearing the heck out of it!
Love your blog Jenn!

Sal

Veteran

La Pedestrienne - it is tricky... and yes Jenn I like your post, and Angie I agree with your thoughts.

JenniNZ - yes there is so much waste in building and construction here - and sometimes manufacturing too!

Seeing companies at the high, mid and low ends of the market struggle is sobering - for different reasons. So many in fashion/apparel have obviously been on the brink due to changing demand, changing business and buying models, and relentless discounting. I think this pandemic is forcing change on many and only some fashion and apparel will survive. It will probably mean the disappearance of some household names and some companies that I will be very sad about losing.

Yes some companies need to stop making so many clothes.....

For me, not too much is changing except wanting to support local retailers/boutiques that I love and who are on the right path....... And trying to love and wear my existing clothes and add careful additions that I will keep for several years.

Style Fan

Veteran

Jenn, I loved your post.

I also read StyleWise. She has written some interesting pieces on subjects that are close to my heart. Thoughtful, reflective and not afraid to put herself out there. She wrote a piece that I commented on and that is not something I do often.

I struggle with the idea of sustainable fashion and have for a while. It is complicated. I can read what this means to others but I have to come up with what I think. I try to only add pieces of clothing to my wardrobe that I think I can wear for a long time. I purchase pieces from retailers who are trying to be sustainable and have given this some thought. The list goes on but that is enough.

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

(Thank you all for reading the post, and for taking it in the spirit intended of adding to the conversation.)

I really appreciated the thoughts from StyleWise and have started following her on Instagram now.

I used to think that buying local was the answer, but then I learned that there are sweatshops paying below minimum wage to workers here in LA! Angie is soooo right in saying that you have to decide what works for you, but there's a mindfulness aspect to just asking the questions and choosing to face the issues rather than ignoring them.

LaPed

Veteran

Jenn, thank you for sharing your lovely blog! I like your three questions. The issue of how to stop making so many clothes is such a tricky one. How do we do it in a coordinated way and without crushing the economies we've built on a foundation of cheap manufacturing in the developing world? I'm not sure it's possible in our current, extremely deregulated, market-driven world.

I also really like Leah's point that hot takes do more harm than good. This is probably true in every arena; stirring the pot is almost always self-serving and does little to contribute to the greater good. I have a hard time with how much online journalism is just outrage-mongering without any substantive or analytical underpinning.

Sorry not to catch up with everybody right now; I have more thoughts but I've got a Zoom reading in five minutes.

Sal

Veteran

La Pedestrienne - I loved the post by StyleWise too. It is thought provoking.

As a small business owner we have faced some decisions during this time that are challenging (we are in a very different industry). We know some of our clients/customers/associates that have made decisions in a very different way.

Jenni NZ

Veteran

La Ped, I should say that I liked that StyleWise post also, as well as Jenn’s post. I found I had read another post of hers about Everlane, either you or someone else here must have linked to that previously.
We are blessed in NZ not to have any clothing sweatshops that I know of and to have a good minimum wage. We do have some exploitation mainly of migrant workers, often by those of their own ethnicity sadly who are often migrants themselves. There have been some awful stories in our main newspapers including that there have been a small number of prosecutions for human trafficking. These stories have not involved our fashion industry. So hopefully if I buy NZ made, then I won’t be exploiting anyone in sweatshops!

Joy

Veteran

Jenn I loved your post and your questions. I hope to buy what I want or need as close to the source as possible, buy used and restore or repurpose old stuff rather than buy new. I like to support small businesses rather than chains and worry about the small local places that may not recover.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I read Jenn's blog and skimmed stylewise (I will go back later). These bring up so many complicated problems both in terms of solutions and also the privilege of the few who have the means to choose. I can say that I have not bought new clothes in a long time, but that relies on my generous free time which is also supported by my husband's hi tech job, so hardly an example. If everyone stopped purchasing suddenly lots of people would suffer all along the supply chain. But if no one uses their privilege to make careful choices nothing will change. Taking off from Jenn's point better might actually be better than perfect here.

Jenni NZ

Veteran

I guess it doesn’t mean people would stop purchasing anything at all. I definitely admire your all-secondhand purchasing Shevia, but as you say it probably takes quite a lot of time, not that that’s a criticism. For me I like to save, where I don’t *need* to spend, but I will spend eventually, like we saved for years to put towards building the new home and then spent all of that over one year!
And we may want to be saving at present in order to give our children a leg-up when the time is right. The money won’t go out of the economy altogether...
Even the one time in our married life that I was relatively poorer than usual, after our third child was born, I was good at managing because I had been brought up to be thrifty. There may be some generations who haven’t learned those life lessons maybe?

nemosmom

Veteran

Man, it's such a difficult, complex thing to navigate. I do agree with others that there are too many clothes being made. But, what happens to all the garment workers and supply chain if the big companies suddenly decide to stop?

I'd like to think that supporting smaller clothing makers is better, like the not perfect linen shop on etsy, or the cashmere folks at Naadam. They resource their textiles in a sustainable way, their workers are treated well (it seems), but then you have the environmental impact of flying and trucking those pieces from overseas - and in some cases all over the US as your package gets lost on it's way to you (ahem). But the flip side of that is the workers in transportation who depend on that leg of it, too.

You have an affordability aspect to it, too. Not everyone can afford to buy a $100 'sustainable' t-shirt. Especially now, with SO many people out of work.

I can't exactly just STOP buying garments. My kids are growing (rapidly!), and my own pieces won't last forever. I am trying to be mindful of fabric content and construction and look for pieces that are meant to take a bit more abuse than the poorly constructed pieces out these days, but that isn't the only answer, either. Even cotton gets a bad rap these days.

Christina F.

Veteran

I don't have any answers here, though I generally agree with Angie that a lot of change has to be top down in this area. I work for an environmental org, not on the program side but I have some familiarity with the issues at play. Even getting a greener supply chain can be ethically a bit iffy--Wal-Mart has the power to force everyone down to farmers to be green, even if it hurts them financially.

The whole issue reminds me of the problem they discovered with scoring in The Good Place--I don't want to elaborate for those who haven't seen the show. You will understand if you have. Ethics are hard.

Anyway, the concrete piece of advice I want to add is that people are still selling their used or unused clothes online, in case anyone wants to shop but doesn't feel right about using retailers right now. It's also a good way to support the post office in the US right now, which is in danger of failing, and the sellers may be in need of money. I recently duplicated a sweater I loved but had destroyed by finding it on eBay. Similarly, I've ordered masks from etsy as a way of paying people directly for their labor, and I imagine people are still selling their handmade clothes that way.

ophelia

Veteran

Manufacturers are not going to slow down production until consumers slow down consumption. Asking a for-profit industry to lead consumers in ethics is...backwards.

Christina F.

Veteran

ophelia - yes, people need to consume less. I for one didn't mean to imply otherwise. The problem is that individual choices to consume less really needs to add up for that to work, until it gets to a critical point and companies are forced to change. (It would help if governments had policies to move things along, which also depends on voters demanding that.) It's those bigger level changes that need to happen to really help the planet.

I don't mean to minimize the individual choice to consume less--it's very important. But the fact of the matter is that if 10% of us don't want fast fashion, the fast fashion will still be made for the 90%.
Being vocal about consuming less and encouraging others to follow suit would help. Telling companies directly if they're doing well or poorly helps too.

Asking lawmakers... etc. (I don't mean to imply that people here aren't doing this important work - just by talking about it in this forum, we are furthering it.)

There has been slow progress in the direction of consuming less and more responsibly until now, but I think the pandemic may completely alter people's consumption habits. People are now trying to regrow scallions, for instance! I for one think we need to demand better made clothes that last longer, and people need to get used to buying less of them at higher prices.

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

Christina, I think about that Good Place scoring episode CONSTANTLY. Best explanation of the convoluted mess of supply chains and thorniness of individual decision-making I have seen.

unfrumped

Veteran

What Ophelia said.
We have met the problem, and it is ...us! ( Speaking in general terms of overconsumption - but I can specifically say I have been an over- consumer!)
But also of course world- wide business competition, very tight profit margins- and things can change so fast, a company has to change, also has to try to predict where to be/ go 5-10 years from now.
Anyway I think it makes more sense to focus more on less consumption , getting something you really need AND want but less of it, and really, from any retailer, since it’s so hard to untangle who is “ most worthy”. Not saying not to have your favorites, ones you think do better, or avoiding ones you feel strongly about. Just that there may always be nuances that change “ the score “.
More on the order of “ is it a 10”, and, will ONE of THESE work better than MORE of those.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Oh boy, I do think the scoring in The Good Place is indeed an apt comparison. I don’t usually dig too deeply into these discussions for that very reason. I don’t believe a prescriptive answer is helpful — the industry will soon find (or it is finding already) that it has to adapt. What we are going through right now with the pandemic is a strong indicator that things have to change. That means action on the part of consumers and makers. If demand dries up, manufacturers will respond. And of course it goes the other way as well.

Sal

Veteran

Season One of The Good Place is a pearler!! My 15 year old has been watching this recently.

Barbara Diane

Veteran

I like the idea of better not perfect.

Thanks for the post, links, and comments.

I do think that there is a systematic problem and also that this pandemic is bringing things into the forefront.

My pants cost the same now as many -ahem-years ago. Back then they were made in the U.S. and their cost was much greater in adjusted dollars. As a newly working person I wore the same few tops and skirts remixed all the time.

I think waste will go down once the machines that scan our bodies and then custom make clothing are more prevalent. Also systems that let us see what an item looks like on our body.

In the shorter term, I purchased 2 clothing items in January. Especially if I will be home for months I doubt I will purchase much. I may replace some underwear. I might buy more if I continue to lose weight. And I might continue my multi year search for the perfect casual comfortable flattering covering enough cotton dresses.

How much would I be willing to pay for a more sustainable dress -if I could find it? Something to ponder given our finances. I’d have to adjust my brain to spend the old amount adjusted for today. And, then, there’s what constantly affects my choices-how long will I be at this weight/how much use will it get/will I need to replace it too soon/if I spend more now will I be able to afford to replace it?

Astrid

Veteran

For me there hasn’t changed much. I have to say that I personally don’t look too much into specific production methods, places of origin and so on - I just buy less and when I buy I buy from a company I have a good feeling about and want to support. Yes, they might not be perfect, but I don’t have the time to do in-depth research when I just need a fitting pair of pants... I try to buy as many things as possible from „fair fashion“ brands though. I don’t really thrift, because I don’t have good stores available with things I like. But I try to wear my things as long as possible, to repair them or to rework and alter them if necessary.

One thing I did was not to stop buying completely during this pandemic and I made sure to spend my money on brands I really like and want to live on after this is over.

If this pandemic results in producing less clothes overall and less wasting of resources, I’m happy. Fewer and better made clothes, which cost more but can be worn longer and repaired. People getting decent wages, less pollution and waste. A girl can dream.

Helena

Veteran

LaPed, thanks for this thoughtful question. On these issues, I'm pretty aligned with Angie's train of thought, which is that there are just no straightforward answers. This has always been true; the current situation is more highlighting it than anything else.

It's like the concept of the "economy", which some people (not on here; I'm talking pundits who dominate the narrative) hold as evil incarnate; others as an absolute good. But what is the economy? Is it huge faceless corporations who pay executives way too much when companies fail while neglecting underpaid workers? Yes. Is it mothers in struggling countries trying to feed their families by working in factories while avoiding worse work, clerks and delivery truck drivers and janitorial staff at retail stores, small businesses struggling to get by? Also yes.

I think all we can do is, as Angie says, do our best to make imperfect-but-ethically-oriented decisions, and nudge things in a better direction. And this is not good enough for those suffering under the current system, no it's not. But still, it might just be all we can do. It's an uncomfortable truth that we need to learn to sit with, because that discomfort is what drives change.

Anyways, that was long and hopefully not too pundity myself! I definitely don't claim to have any answers here; only to have considered the questions at length!

xx

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I was disappointed to read in the WSJ today that the parent company of Jones New York is one of the companies that canceled spring/summer orders from garment makers overseas, even though the garments have already been made and raw materials purchased, and refusing to pay for them.