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What defines premium denim?

Aziraphale

Veteran

Maybe someone can clear this up for me. I read Angie's 'peak premium denim' post belatedly, so it's to late to ask questions there, but I noticed that J Crew was listed among the non-premium denim styles. Well, I bought a pair of J Crew dark denim 'toothpick' jeans two or three years ago, and I'm positive I paid nearly $200 for them (although taxes were probably included -- I tend to remember the price of things after tax). That seems like it should be in the premium denim range. They were very nice jeans, thick and heavy, with a high cotton percentage and hardly any stretch.

So, how exactly do you know if a pair of jeans is premium denim? Is it something obvious that I'm missing?

General

29 replies

Latest reply was from puppycat

Staysfit

Veteran

I had the same question! Sorry I can't be of more help.

Anonymous

I would have thought that J Crew were premium jeans.

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

I think J Crew will have jeans that are made from different denim fabrics that they tout as high end, and charge more for those. I seem to remember Cone Denim as an expensive fabrication.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

What Ummlila said -- some of their jeans probably count as premium and some not -- they definitely offer a range of prices. Some are just slightly above Banana Republic or Kut from the Kloth prices (at least here in Canada) and some are much more than that. Probably different designers/ fabrications/ place of manufacture.

Anonymous

I think we're going to find that's it's defined by price and label, which, to my sales and marketing eye, is just a pile of , never mind. Yes, quality of denim defines, but denim is made from cotton, full stop. The addition of lycra fibres is optional, and used across the spectrum of cheap to expensive . As yesterday's discussion proved, sometimes the inexpensive jeans are every bit as good quality , fit and design-wise as the "premium" versions. I think it's a cleverly though-up term that did what it was supposed to: create demand and a feel of exclusivity amongst an original target market.

Thistle

Veteran

That you didn't buy them from Farm and Fleet (where a lot of people by me get their jeans) for starters!

Anonymous

I imagine it is to create a feeling of exclusivity. Still, there's a quality difference to take into consideration when buying jeans. Not all denim is the same, just like not all cotton is the same, not all polyester is the same, and so forth ad nauseum. Quality of workmanship also comes into play. At the end of the day, I go by fit and feel, and have a maximum price I'm willing to pay. I pay more than I used to simply because I wear jeans a lot more than I used to, and my aging body wants to be comfortable while my personality wants to be stylish. Sigh...

Aziraphale

Veteran

Thanks, guys. LisaP, I was afraid of that. Those sneaky marketers.

I have to say that there is a very high correlation between the price of each pair of jeans in my closet and how much I like them. The higher cost ones do tend to have a better fit, and better fabric. However, now that Angie says places like the Gap have better jeans, I might have to give them a try.

Jules

Veteran

Yeah, I had the same question. Poking around, it seemed to me that the premium brands were actually over $200 (ie/ True Religion). And everything under is considered non-premium. It's not a distinction that's meaningful to me, since I doubt I will ever pay over $150 or so for jeans. At the same time, I have found that jeans in the $80-$120 range (Second brand Yoga jeans, Lucky back a few years ago, but even mavi and Buffalo which are under the $100 mark) consistently work out better for me than cheaper jeans (Old Navy, etc). But in the interest of exceptions to every rule, last summer my two favourite pairs were under $40 from Joe Fresh, so I haven't given up on cheap entirely. Unfortunately, GAP drives me nuts with their sizing/quality/pricing/stock inconsistencies, plus their default rise is too low for me in fitted jeans (BFs work ok).
So... my premium jeans, which I find well worth paying for, are $80-120. And for me the distinction between those and truly cheap jeans is very relevant, having wasted lots of money trying to cheap out on jeans.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

AZ, for me it is about half and half. As in half my favourite jeans are premium (same ones as your faves, as it happens -- the CoH Racers and the Rag&Bone Dres); and half my faves are non-premium box store brands.

I will say that my premium faves tend to be faves for a combination of fit, fabrication, and flattery. My non-premium faves are faves partly because of some other quality -- the fit/ flattery factor is decent if not absolute tops, and they also have an interesting colour/ pattern that I need/want in my closet. So in some sense they are favourites as versatile "pants" rather than "jeans" per se.

Anonymous

Very good post. I learned a lot.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

The brand, the price point and the marketing behind the price point.

J.Crew Toothpicks are not premium denim. They cost $125 in the US - although that IS high. NYDJ's are about the same price, and definitely not premium denim.

J.Crew also has a designer section, with more exclusive denim styling and a much higher price point. The brand is different too:

https://www.jcrew.com/womens_c...../B3067.jsp

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Thistle, when I was in high school, most of my jeans were from the farm supply store. At least back then, it was high quality denim! Not fashion forward, but sturdy as all heck.

The rest of my jeans were from Maurice's. Ah, rural life....

elpgal

Veteran

When I think of premium denim, I feel exactly the same as Diana mentioned in her comment yesterday about how it 'felt like velvet. (And yet it was still strong and substantial, with
just enough stretch for comfort but it didn’t feel *stretchy*'

The only exception to this rule was Lucky Brand which would not be considered premium but used a similar fabric.

rachylou

Veteran

So... what are the premium denim brands?

Tanya

Veteran

Rachy, some of the premium brands are:
7 for all Mankind
Citizens of Humanity
J Brand
Paige Premium
Joe's Jeans
True Religion
Habitual
Rag&Bone
Rich&Skinny
AG jeans
MiH jeans
Mother
Frame
Acne
DL 1961
R13
Hudson
Current/Elliot
James Jeans

Gaylene

Veteran

Well, if I'm being cynical, I'd say that "premium denim" is any jean with a 350% plus mark-up. "Normal" mark-up for women's clothing is around 150% (which goes some way in explaining why stores can regularly offer 60-80% discounts without going out of business!)

Brand name, fit, style, fabric, finish, design, country of origin, and marketing all come into play. Most "premium" jeans stress the specialness of their fabric--which usually translates to how the brand and designer choose to finish the raw denim which comes from the mill. The more that is done to "finish" the fabric, the higher the price. Since many finishing techniques to soften and distress the fabric reduce fabric strength, "premium" denim can actually be more delicate than raw denim and might require more careful laundering. Special touches like decorative stitching, metal fasteners, and fashion-forward washes and styles can also command a higher price.

To my way of thinking, "premium" denim isn't necessarily better than regular jeans, any more than a $3000 leather bag is better than a $250 leather bag, or a cashmere sweater is better than one made of merino wool. All those bags and sweaters can be functional, "quality" purchases, and stylish additions to a wardrobe. Same for jeans. If you want a pair of quality jeans that fit well, look stylish, and last for several seasons of wear, you don't have to buy "premium" denim. If you want a special wash or finish, a fashion-forward style, and, a bit of the cachet that accompanies a brand with a good story or a coveted designer association--and are happy to pay more for your pleasure--then why not? Some of us indulge ourselves by buying a designer handbag or cashmere sweater, so why should it be any different for a pair of jeans?

Diana

Veteran

Elpgal, I think lucky used to be premium, or close to it. I have some very old (at least 6 yrs old) lucky bootcuts in that awesome fabric - actually I have 2 identical pairs because I found a second new on eBay a couple of years ago. At that time they were priced similar to 7fam, joes, etc at around $150 a pop. About 5 yrs ago lucky changed the prices to midrange and the denim quality suffered in my opinion.

Vince still sometimes uses the velvety denim (but even they seem to be subject to polyester creep recently) but their sizing is super inconsistent and they are spendy. Still, I think they're the best bet for that fabric, and I currently own 3 pairs (one is on it's last legs though).

Gaylene

Veteran

Can I just add that I get leery about lists of "premium" vs. regular jeans. Are the names on the list because of price? Availability in the mass market? Marketing? Personal preference?

I think I'd need a more indepth explanation as to why certain brands get excluded--or added--to a list. Is every product from a certain brand automatically premium--or not premium? Or are there lines within a brand, much like designers' have, to appeal to different market segments. And how do personal preferences come into play? My own preferences are to avoid distressed or stretchy denim like the plague so that rules out a whole slew of "premium" brands. Add to that my dislike of calf-sucking skinnies and embellished stitching and flaps on back pockets, and I've left another heap on the shelves. And "velvety" denim just feels too weird for my personal jean aesthetic.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

Actually there is more to it than you think, it's fashion history.
Seven for All Mankind came out in about 2000. At that time standard jeans were very different. They came out with a very different fit of the bootcut jean. It was hugely more flattering to your rear. It was pretty much revolutionary at the time. Many companies came about from their staff. Their former fit model started Paige jeans.

Yes, the market is much more muddled now. But then there was a difference.
Also judging by all comments from our Canadian members, almost American products are more expensive in Canada.

ETA Also I heard that all jeans are declining in sales. Which is probably why many of the manufacturers are trying to expand into other things beside jeans.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Anna is right. The history and the story behind the denim brand is part of it being premium. A little like a cult movement. Premium jeans were supposed to make your bottom look magical (fit and pocket placement), and hold in the squishy bits. With the onset of BF jeans, clearly this is no longer the focus.

The largest shortcoming of premium jeans is that they generally do not fit curvy body types, and plus sizes. Straight-ish, and up to a size 10, is usually the body type market. Boyfriend jeans have changed that a little though, making premium jeans fit a larger assortment of curvy body types than they used to. There is still a huge size defecit though.

viva

Veteran

I think Anna makes great points about the brand's history and also about pricing being a difficult way to distinguish between premium and non, especially for a Canadian fabber - since really, for you guys it all ends up being expensive doesn't it?

Regarding JCrew in particular, I personally see all JCrew brand jeans as non-premium (this would be all of their basic bootcut, boyfriend, toothpick, and matchstick) and their specialty styles and companion brands as premium (this would include the Chimala ones Angie posted, as well as the 3x1s, Point Surs, other selvedge, etc.). While JCrew brand jeans are discounted frequently, the specialty and companion brands typically don't go on sale (although sometimes you can get lucky).

Gaylene

Veteran

Actually, the introduction of the low-rise front and contoured waist also made a big difference in the fit of "premium" jeans. And I'd add that the roots of the idea of "better" denim go back to Calvin Klein and the heyday of "designer" jeans--Jordache, Gloria Vanderbilt, and the like. The concept of treating jeans as a go-anywhere fashion item made it acceptable to spend more money on a pair of jeans and to have more than one pair in a wardrobe.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

Gaylene, that's what I saying about the fit.
Calvin Klein and ilk from the late seventies and early eighties were not longer premium. They had become mass market and "old fit". Also the fabric was different in the 2000's

viva

Veteran

Gaylene - you just reminded me of my first premium ("designer") jean purchase. I worked in a department store in high school, and I had just done inventory and so had been paid $40 in cold hard cash. I left work and immediately bought a pair of Gloria Vanderbilt jeans, with the little swan emblem. Up until then, it had been Levis forever. That $40 felt like a fortune.

rachylou

Veteran

Thanks, Tanya. That helps. Brass tacks and all that.

So... premium jeans are different from designer jeans, right?

And hey, I *do* remember that revolutionary jeans cut/fit. I went off my skinnies for awhile there...

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

Basically what I was trying to tell was the history of the current wave of premium denim, which no one had brought up. And this seemed more germaine to Elisabeth's question than stuff that happened nearly 30 years ago.

Anonymous

For the record, I like stretch jeans and don't mind a little bit of poly. My NYDJ's are great. My body doesn't like anything that's itchy or scratchy or too loose or too tight. I have osteoarthritis, and really really really need comfortable clothes.

puppycat

I have tried premiums and generally find them very unfriendly to the curvy figure. I found a pair of NYDJ jeans in a thrift store and happened to try them on; they were the best fitting jeans I've ever found. That was over a year ago. I never wear any other jeans now and look for them in different cuts and washes. They're not premium (although they are to me, quite pricey) but when you find something that fits, that is all that matters.