Well, This is Refreshing! - YouLookFab Forum

Maya

Saw that and agree, the dresses look nice on the curvy ladies.

But as I said before, I question how practical it would be to have all different sizes and shapes.

Anonymous

I like seeing the clothes on women with real curves. Easier to translate to real life and he will probably sell a LOT of dresses since women can see what they actually look like.

16 years ago

trix

Active Member

It's great to see that the dresses look good on non-anorexic people too, and even better to know that at least one designer is trying to escape the beanpole-model look! Not that these models are heavy for their height...a UK size 12 is like a US size 8 now, isn't it? But still, it's a start...

16 years ago

marianna

Veteran

Trix makes a good point, and one that I also thought of when I read the article/looked at the pictures -- those are some SLIM size 12/14s... because they're UK sizes! A typical US size 14 doesn't look like that.

16 years ago

carissa

(website)

Active Member

I immediately thought, "UK 12 is US 8".

16 years ago

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

That's what I thought too, Carissa. Those are US size 8 models (UK size 12).

16 years ago

shiny

Veteran

Okay I've just checked a few sites and the conversion is UK12 is US10...

You really don't think a US 10-12 looks like that? Interesting!

16 years ago

shiny

Veteran

Remember: these are TALL women... a size US 10-12 is going to look slimmer on a 5'11" women versus a 5'5" woman....

16 years ago

Christie

Active Member

They look great! Its nice to see a US8/UK12 --- the average woman albeit much taller! Still, a woman of average height looks very similar, just with shorter legs.

16 years ago

rute

Veteran

Love it! It's nice to see they are using more curvy women!

16 years ago

garmenta

Active Member

The curvier models look less hungry, too!

16 years ago

Ele

(website)

Active Member

This story has been on the news all day here! One of the models was even on BBC Breakfast this morning, with a journalist talking about it.

I agree that the dresses look amazing, even better on the (slightly) curvier models. However, I'd take this "ethical shift" with a grain of salt. Mark Fast is not a line that gets a lot of press/is considered A-list in London Fashion Week. Using bigger girls is a sure-fire way of getting attention, and he knows that. Yes, it looks lovely, but it's just for publicity.

Aside from that, it's not practical to continually use women of different sizes in fashion shows. Designers make their samples in one size (skinny) and want a bunch of identikit girls who will fit them. Financially, it wouldn't be possible for most lines to use a mix of sizes like this.

Too bad, though- it looks great!

16 years ago

anne

Veteran

Recently there was some discussion around the use of plus size models at a prominent fashion show in my state. While many applauded this others felt it was irresponsible and someone from the Heart Foundation was on the radio saying she would rather see models at sizes more likely to be at a healthy weight eg size 10, 12, 14.(Australian sizes, which are the same as British) So this designer has done that. I agree that the bigger sized models looked better.

I agree that height makes a big difference. Recently I was chatting to a tall friend about opshopping and said that I didn't find their was much in my size (Aus 8) and didn't she find the same? I assumed she, being slim and much taller, would be the same size. But she said everyone thought that she was much smaller than she was, that she was nearly 6 foot, took size 12-14 (Aus) and would have been unhealthy for her to be a size 8. Very sensible! She could have been one of those models.

16 years ago

Chris

Active Member

The media has been touting his "plus size" models since the weekend. Size 8 is certainly not Plus size and is smallelr than average Amercian and UK size.
I do think those models look fabulous in any case and would love to see more shows and magazines cover all sizes.

16 years ago

shiny

Veteran

Anne, I am a size US 2p; in regular sizing, I often take a 0. My chest, waist, hips are about the same as these tall models... but, even at my lowest happy weight, I certainly don't look that thin!!!! I've always figured that's the difference height makes. If you stretched me out 10 inches, keeping my horizontal measurements the same, perhaps I would look more like a model. As it is, I think I look more like the UK12-14 models in this show, which is why I loved this so much. I could see how those dresses would look on me.

The petite equivalent to a model is more like a 00p. Which is why I fully support retailers offering that size - those women need to have something to wear too! I do believe that not every model-thin woman (no matter what height) is unhealthy. Some people really are born that way (I think we have a few members here who fall into that category!), and that is a natural and happy weight for them. I know I'm not one of them... I have tried in the past to diet and exercise myself down to such a weight, and I just feel and look sick, gaunt and weak.

16 years ago

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I find this depressing, how can the use of a 'normal sized' lady garner so much attention. I know allot of models are naturally slender and healthy but I find it repugnant when a school girl model, barely out of puberty is paraded down the catwalk to sell clothes to ladies who's figures are fully matured.

As Ele stated I think this is a publicity stunt and little to do with a shift in attitude from the industry.

16 years ago

Desmo April

(website)

Veteran

Not at all a shift in attitude...

"A stylist and a casting director quit backstage at designer Mark Fast's recent show during London Fashion Week, citing creative differences over Fast's decision to send three models, who each fell between size 12 and size 14, down the runway."

http://jezebel.com/5363574/sty.....-on-runway

16 years ago

Maya

Veteran

I completely agree with Ele. I have posted this before and I will post it again: Women need to stop taking everything that has to do with the modeling world so personally. It's not about "real" women vs. models. I actually feel sorry for the models! Look at what ugly comments they have to deal with whenever this topic comes up.

Models are NOT chosen because they are beautiful or "ideal" women. They are chosen because they are PRACTICAL. Having 15 different sizes on the runway would be so difficult and frustrating to deal with. I know I would be a designers worst nightmare on the runway, and I do not blame them at all. Who would want to deal with adding darts and having their design overshadowed by the fact that I have big boobs? Who would want to have so much inconsistency when the models come down the runway for the final viewing? Remember, runway shows are not meant for the general public to decide what to buy. That is what catalogs are for. So seeing these clothes on so-called "real" women isn't going to make you any more likely to buy those clothes or designs than if you see them on a standard size 0 model.

I don't defend unhealthily gaunt models. I'm glad some health guidelines are being put in place. But I just don't see this as having anything to do with me, or other women.

16 years ago

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I understand what you are saying Maya, however sample sizes have decreased by two sizes since the early nineties. When Linda Evangalista returned to modelling she was unable to find a sample to fit!

16 years ago

medusa

Veteran

Interesting article. In my opinion the "plus size" models look better than the "normal" ones. The UK 12-14 women look curvy and healthy, and the super-skinny women look sick.

16 years ago

Chris

Active Member

I agree with you in a philosophical sense Maya (we all need not to compare ourselves to others in general - much healthier!) but variety in model choices does help show off the clothes more realistically.

16 years ago

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Interesting thread. Here are a few thoughts to chew on:

o As someone who is in the fashion industry, and as someone who has worked with and on countless fit models, and been to plenty of fashion shows (worked behind the scenes too), I think that the tall slender “ramp model” silhouette visually works best for catwalk presentations. There is no doubt in my mind. Obviously, sickly looking models are not desirable.

o But when it comes to photo shoots, diversity in body type works really well. Think of all the shorter and less slim actresses who end up doing fashion shoots and look stunning.

o Also, models are not as small as you think. They do not wear 0’s and 2’s. They are more like 4’s and 6’s. I know it’s hard to believe but I’ve worked with models and popped them into garments and I wouldn’t have believed it either if I hadn’t fitted and measured them myself! They have very broad shoulders and bone structure. But they are pushing 6 ft so they look really slim. It’s fact that height slims downs curves.

o Quite right Julie. The supermodels of the 90’s were a size or two bigger than supermodels today.

16 years ago

Maya

Veteran

Julie: I am not saying anything regarding the models' sizes. I personally don't give a hoot what size or age they are as long as they are healthy, happy, and enjoying themselves. As long as those three things are true, they could be 10 sizes smaller than in the 90's and it wouldn't really disturb me (obviously, it's not realistic, I'm just trying to make a point).

I am just saying that it makes sense to have some sort of standard in place, and any time there is a standard in place, it means a large percentage of people are going to be left out. It doesn't matter if that standard is curvy, straight, fat, thin, tall, short, bony, soft, pudgy, busty...it can be anything. One way or another, a large part of women will be left out, so it doesn't make sense for us to get all offended and bent out of shape just because we are not "represented." What you see on a runway has NOTHING to do with ideals regarding beauty and physical attractiveness, and frankly it has nothing to do with us either. It is simply practical. The tall and slender body type just works best and is also probably MUCH easier to fit than someone with lots of dramatic curves.

Angie is right about model sizing. Heidi Klum is the same size as I am, but she is also probably at least 8" taller than me. She always looks radiant and healthy as far as I'm concerned.

16 years ago

anne

Veteran

Shiny,
I agree with you about some people being healthily model thin - I married into a family like that. At least in their early 20's they were all a weight that would be considered underweight (which is why I assumed my slim friend was the same size. My s-i-l used to make me tops the same size as herself (she is 4 inches taller) I was going to put a caveat in my original post about this

At 5 foot four and in the middle of the healthy BMI range for my hight, I wear Aus 8, occasionally 10 or 6 (but most ranges only start at 8) At the top of the healthy BMI range I wore a 12 (after baby) so for me a 14 would mean I was overweight according to that classification. But I am a medium frame and I do often wonder how tiny women with tiny frames dress themselves in Australia

Maya - the show I was talking about (I didn't say this at the time) was a department show showing their in store collection.

16 years ago

garmenta

Active Member

There's a fascinating website/blog on garment design and construction--it's called Fashion Incubator--and the author explains the economics behind showing the clothes in a size 2-4 and photographing them in a size 4-6. It's cheaper for the designer to find runway and photograph models in the same sizes.

Now, there's no reason why they couldn't find them all in larger sizes, as long as they were consistently larger (to minimize costs) but there's a further wrinkle in that the fashion industry expects a certain body type on the runway and in the ads. . .

Mark Fast's stand is good for him as a publicity stunt, but if you're a designer or mass manufacturer, how much of a risk do you want to take? In a bad economy, with narrow margins, not much. So change is hard to come by.

16 years ago

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