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Waist definition -

anne

Veteran

Maya wrote recently on another thread
My main problem with the hourglass tips is that there is so much about emphasizing my "tiny" waist...but I don't have a tiny waist. I am an hourglass because of my hips and my chest, not my waist. In fact, I have major problems with a lot things that are supposed to be perfect for hourglasses, like tie waists, belts, and wraps. "

I can really relate to this! Much written for pear shapes also seems to be about emphasizing the waist and I also feel like my waist isn't "tiny" and putting belts around it is drawing attention to it's squishiness. I just did a quick measure and I am currently (over clothes and in the middle of the day) about 36 30 38 - but the bust and the waist can vary over the course of the day
Here are a couple of pictures with self ties
http://i297.photobucket.com/al.....rench3.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/al.....56-web.jpg

When I get something with a tie my husband says something like " thank goodness that can come off!" but you guys seem to think it looks better. (He does like me in fitted clothes - he's not too keen on the smock look)
Before my 3 kids my waist was around 26.5" I can't imagine, though I still have a few kilos to loose, that I will ever get down to less than 29. Do you think it is the discrepancy between now and my younger self that is influencing me, or am I am DH right that ties are not for me?

Body Type

19 replies

Latest reply was from anne

Maya

Veteran

I think the trench looks really nice on you! Love it. I have a very similar black sateen trench with a waist tie and it's one of my most favorite items in my closet. I look so tiny in it! I also have a wool coat with a waist belt, though I prefer to wear it without the belt only because it gives me the coveted LLL. For some reason I can do waist ties with outerwear. Perhaps Angie has an explanation as to why this is.

I find that most of the time, waist ties just don't hit me at the right spot. The smallest part of my waist is in a very specific location. Above and below that spot, I balloon out into my big old boobs and hips. On ladies like Ana and Tanya, who have longer torsos, the waist curve goes in more gradually because there is more room, so if the belt hits 1 or 2" above the smallest part, it really isn't going to make a difference. I don't know if that makes any sense at all. I have put a lot of thought into this, if that wasn't already evident :p

This cardi is maybe the only exception I have to my "no tie" rule because it hits me in my sweet spot:

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....G_0998.jpg

I don't know if that helps to illustrate my point or not.

I think the tie on your sweater is less effective because of the material quality of it, and perhaps the way it's tied. I'm not quite sure, but it isn't because you don't have a waistline. "Tiny" is all relative, by the way. You're well proportioned with hips and a bust that are nearly equal and a waist that's much smaller. There is no magical number that equates to having a small waist. It's about proportion. I just say I don't have a waist because there's not much difference between my 33" bust and 26"-27" waist. Most people want to smack me when I say my 26-27 inch waist isn't tiny, but proportionately it isn't. If I didn't have such a (pardon my crass language) huge rack, I'd probably be a pear or rectangle rather than an hourglass. You seem to have a long torso to my eyes, and I think you can do wraps and belts. Experiment with different belt widths and different types of wraps. I have found that I can wear a fixed wrap, especially if there's a lot of ruching...just not the kind that ties. I think an empire top with a banded waist would look lovely on you (no gathers of course). I have also found that I wear surplice necklines well, so you might want to try that as well. They're a bit like wraps, but better

I hope this helped a bit.

shiny

Veteran

Okay.. Anne.... for the record: apple shape is anything above a 0.8 waist/hip ratio. There are research studies showing that men are most attracted to women who have waist/hip ratios lower than 0.8 - indicates fertility or something.

A 30 waist with 38 hips is 0.78 - so you DO have a proportionately desirable waist. Play it up, celebrate, enjoy. If you once had a 26 inch waist, then I would say you have genetic pear tendencies and may someday get back to that.

I am more like 27 waist (on a good day) with 33 hips.. which is 0.85 - - in apple territory. Do you think I look like an apple??? Really. I am just a hipless wonder. - that's all!! To boot, my waist is pretty darn short too. But I have become skilled at picking clothes to accentuate my waist and make it look tinier than it really is.

Anne, how old are your kids?

anne

Veteran

Hello Ladies, thanks for the detailed long responses (which I suspect were written very late at night!)
I measured myself again - after lunch and a breastfeed - and had a 31 waist and 35 bust - demonstrating my earlier point about how I said it changes!

Maya, is your "sweet point" on your ribcage? My rib cage is quite big, an inch or 2 bigger than my waist which is just under the bottom of the bottom rib.
I am going to try out your suggestions. Is a surplice top one like the top of this dress?
http://i297.photobucket.com/al.....dress4.jpg
(this is the worst photo of this dress, several of which I posted recently, but it's the clearest)

Also you are right - I am definately longwaisted.
I guess it is more the squidginess which is a problem.

Shiny, you do dress very well and , no you don't look like an apple. There's lots to learn from your dress sense!
My kids are 5, 2.5 and 71/2 months

shiny

Veteran

My sweet point is also right under my rib cage. I swear my rib cage expanded when I was pregnant (I'm so short - where else was the baby going to go?).

Breastfeeding is the most wonderful "diet" plan in the world! All the baby weight magically melts off.... esp from months 6 through 12.

Maya

Veteran

Anne, my waist is just below the ribcage, about an inch above my belly button. A lot of people think the smallest part of my waist is just beneath the bust, but I'm actually about 28" there. That just goes to show how hard it is for me to show where my waist ACTUALLY is.

I can't tell if that's a surplice neck on the dress, but it looks like it might be. Does it cross over at the bust?

I might not be using the correct terminology. I'm basing this on a diagram I saw at myshape.com. It's no longer there, but they still have an example if you scroll to the bottom: http://www.myshape.com/content/shape_m#2

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

My dear ladies, I appreciate the thought process that has gone into this. (I like Shiny’s reasoning). The fact remains that you BOTH have waist lines. You are NOT apple shaped. Maya is short-waisted where as Anne is not, but you are both petite in height. The trench looks better belted on Anne for sure. It gives her more waist definition. I can’t judge Maya’s unbelted trench look because I haven’t seen it but Maya is short-waisted so her reasoning makes sense.

I’d like to stress that the body type rules are guidelines and that exceptions creep up all the time. But for someone who is clueless as to what clothing to look for, the guidelines have proved helpful. They are a useful starting point.

marianne

I have also been always confused about waist definition rules. Before I thought that since my waist isn't defined adding belts just draws attention to that fact. I only started experimenting with them recently.

I do prefer belted coats, especially trenches, where the fit isn't as well shaped as wool coats (don't know if that's making sense). Anne, I think the trench looks a lot better belted, too!

Maya

Veteran

I know I have a waistline. It's just hard to find things that show exactly where it is. I have my coat in storage now but it will be out again soon and I can take a picture of it. I do not wear it unbelted though. It wouldn't have any shape. I wear my winter coat unbelted because it maintains its shape without the belt. I used to wear it belted until I filled out, but now I feel a bit too squished in it. For some reason the black trench works when it's belted but I'm not really sure why. Maybe because it flares out a bit at the bottom. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

anne

Veteran

Hello ladies,
Thanks for a wonderful discussion. I read it this morning but didn't have time to write, having three kids (and myself) to get ready for church and 2 families over for lunch!
So here goes
Maya - the reason I asked where your waist was, was that the tie which you said was on your "sweet spot" on the link you put up seemed to be on your rib cage

Shiny - I think my ribcage has expanded with pregnancy too, though mine has always been big. I remember thinking as a teenager that my bottom ribs seemed to stick out as much as my (small) breasts. And several years of swimming training probably contributed too. My large ribcage is one reason (relatively strong shoulderline being the other) that I don't feel like a archetypal pear shape - but I am, thanks to full thighs and bottom more than to hips

Breastfeeding and weight loss tend to differ person to person, but it has worked for me. I fed the first 2 for 19 months each and in each case ended up, for a brief time anyway, weighing less than I had pre-pregnancy so I am not too worried that it won’t happen again. It took 6 months the first time, 91/2 months (and a fair bit of jogging) the second time, and It is now 71/2 months with 3 kilos to lose but I think I can attribute the remaining bits to not trying much ( just had other priorities for a while; a family holiday and then a sick baby) and too much baking! Anyway, My waist went up 1 inch with the first child and another ½ inch with the second, despite the weight loss. So I suppose part of my initial question (which I think Maya has answered) was whether I have lost my waist or whether, because it is bigger, I just perceive that to be the case

I used to love wearing belted looks – loved those skirts made with big elastic waists in the 80’s. I was glad that waists are returning to the natural waist. I love the natural waist looks sported (sometimes) by Sarah Jessica Parker and Kristin Davis. But I don’t look anything like them!

Angie. If I get up in the morning and put on a tight top, my waistline is clearly evident. It is when other layers go on top that it starts getting lost! Angie I do realise that I am quibbling to some degree with your principles which of course are very helpful in the main. I guess I’m just trying to finetune it for myself

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

My dear Anne, first of all you are a super woman!!!

Secondly, you are welcome and worthy “to quibble” on this forum. I love your thought process and appreciate your questions and challenges. Bring them on.

Thirdly, I’ve said it before. I can scarcely believe that little cute body had three children. You look AMAZING. And you have a waist! And that waistline is going to get even smaller

anne

Veteran

Thanks Angie for all of the above! I'll give you all a rest now and go to bed. It is 11:30 here!

shiny

Veteran

Anne, if when you are naked or just wearing a tight top you clearly have a waist, then I have to say it is the *clothing* that is the issue - NOT your body!

I think many many women have this issue, because off-the-rack clothing is made to fit the "average" figure .... which means it really fits nobody, because we're all unique.

And I understand that experience completely - long sharing Maya's frustration with jeans, until I found "my" brand - the one that works for me. (I did not wear jeans for oh.... 20 years... despite trying on brand after brand after brand).

And then we have Tanya there - fretting about saddlebags because one brand of jeans gave her whiskers - when we all know that that Tanya has a perfectly lovely figure. It's not her body - it's the CLOTHES.

Frankly I think there is nothing weird about my body when I assess it naked - well, except for the expected aging saggy bits - I mean the contours. I see a waist too. Even though yes, after two kids my waist is never going to get back down to 23 inches. (I think things internally shift and muscles can get so damaged not even all the sit-ups in the world can fix it ... that's what my OB/GYN claims, anyway... )

Despite looking fine naked, when I put on ill-fitting clothes - especially the wrong jeans - I look all goofy!! I look fat and puffy and appleish, with no butt, etc. Or if I try on the wrong size/style top, I look stunted and out of proportion and 20 lbs heavier etc.

You have a longer torso than I do so I don't feel qualified to give any specific advice about clothing brands or styles to try, but just wanted to say to be persistent and picky and keep trying things on until you find what works for you. Or pay a tailor to make something average fit you perfectly.

The swimming thing? Understand that too: both my kids are on swim team. Eldest DD is such a classic pear, the swimming just makes her upper body look tinier - delicate yet strong and lean.

But youngest DD is built more like me. Actually to be specific - she has a build that would be perfect for gymnastics; they wanted her to enroll in a program back in grade school because they saw great potential - but I nixed it because I found the training schedule all worrisome for a grade schooler.... but I digress...

She has stronger inverted triangle tendencies than I do. Swimming gives her shoulders and back an even stronger line. During swim season, her waist "shrinks" - but it's an illusion - it shrinks because her shoulders get broader and it creates more of a inverted triangle.

So that is one other thought: when the baby is a little older, perhaps enroll them in swimming lessons and you can get some laps in yourself? If the waist is not going to shrink, you can still build back up your upper body so that it looks proportionately smaller.

Maya

Veteran

Anne, I should clarify: I'd say my sweet spot is right below the bust to just above the belly button. Even though I'm bigger just below the bust, I'm also not squishy there, so it balances out.

This might be a better example because it shows where I'm smallest:

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....G_0992.jpg

It looks high up, but that's just because I'm shortwaisted. If I put the belt any lower, It would be very unflattering.

Oh, while looking for that picture I also found this one:

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....G_1001.jpg

So I think I think seeing me (and everyone else here) just from the front is a bit deceptive. My waist looks much smaller from the side. Unfortunately it is counterbalanced by my butt :p

anne

Veteran

Sorry I have taken a while to reply to this – need to give my fingers a break. Am trying to use keyboard shortcuts rather than the mouse…

Shiny, thanks for the encouragement, re - needing to find the right clothes
Re swimming: I am not actually sure if swimming changed my build that much – the most I did regularly was 4.5 hrs a week, and mostly it was only 2-3. I had a friend who swam competitively; I remember her arms tight around the ends of her polo shirt sleeves and also how her figure changed when she quit swimming (bigger chest, smaller arms) But I have actually considered swimming again as I just love the feeling of it. And my younger brother has even made a deal with me that if I enter a swimming race ( or the swim leg of a triathalon or similar) he will buy me a suit to keep me warm! So I may get into it again. I remember reading that Princess Di built up her shoulders to make her waist look smaller on her rectangular frame. Swimming lessons for kids is very big over here, almost everyone does seems to do them, though we have stopped my daughters over winter because she misses so much time due to colds. The only drawback to swimming in my book is that I don’t find it very helpful to lose weight, whereas with running I am practically guaranteed to once doing say, 3 x 5km a week.

Gym – this is a digression as well. I reckon my middle daughter 2.5, could be good at it. She already climbs everything, somersaults all over the back yard and is skinny and wiry. (both girls have been putting on Olympic inspired “shows” for me! Unhappily there is nowhere to learn gym in our town, so I am planning to book her in for acrobatics, which a couple of dance schools have classes in.

Maya – I think you have hit upon a very important point there re – side views. I think it is something I have been thinking about too but hadn’t quite put into words. It makes me understand why you might think of yourself as rectangular – except with a big bust – from the front. As you say though, from the side you are definitely an hourglass! Your bottom doesn’t look that big at ALL. Conversely, I look quite different from the side – a lot less slender and if I don’t hold my tummy in, still about 5 months pregnant! As in this picture, which was taken a few months ago, when I first posted ( lost 2 kilos since then, but measurements haven’t changed! ) http://i297.photobucket.com/al.....4-edit.jpg

anne

Veteran

Sorry I have taken a while to reply to this – need to give my fingers a break. Am trying to use keyboard shortcuts rather than the mouse…

Shiny, thanks for the encouragement, re - needing to find the right clothes
Re swimming: I am not actually sure if swimming changed my build that much – the most I did regularly was 4.5 hrs a week, and mostly it was only 2-3. I had a friend who swam competitively; I remember her arms tight around the ends of her polo shirt sleeves and also how her figure changed when she quit swimming (bigger chest, smaller arms) But I have actually considered swimming again as I just love the feeling of it. And my younger brother has even made a deal with me that if I enter a swimming race ( or the swim leg of a triathalon or similar) he will buy me a suit to keep me warm! So I may get into it again. I remember reading that Princess Di built up her shoulders to make her waist look smaller on her rectangular frame. Swimming lessons for kids is very big over here, almost everyone does seems to do them, though we have stopped my daughters over winter because she misses so much time due to colds. The only drawback to swimming in my book is that I don’t find it very helpful to lose weight, whereas with running I am practically guaranteed to once doing say, 3 x 5km a week.

Gym – this is a digression as well. I reckon my middle daughter 2.5, could be good at it. She already climbs everything, somersaults all over the back yard and is skinny and wiry. (both girls have been putting on Olympic inspired “shows” for me! Unhappily there is nowhere to learn gym in our town, so I am planning to book her in for acrobatics, which a couple of dance schools have classes in.

Maya – I think you have hit upon a very important point there re – side views. I think it is something I have been thinking about too but hadn’t quite put into words. It makes me understand why you might think of yourself as rectangular – except with a big bust – from the front. As you say though, from the side you are definitely an hourglass! Your bottom doesn’t look that big at ALL. Conversely, I look quite different from the side – a lot less slender and if I don’t hold my tummy in, still about 5 months pregnant! As in this picture, which was taken a few months ago, when I first posted ( lost 2 kilos since then, but measurements haven’t changed! ) http://i297.photobucket.com/al.....4-edit.jpg

Maya

Veteran

Ah finally someone understands why I feel a bit rectangular sometimes. I've felt like all the different body types at some point, except for the inverted triangle.

I used to be a rectangle a few years ago, back when I was a 32B, 25" waist, and had a pancake butt. I actually have a picture of me from a few years ago with some jeans that had side entry pockets, and I used to LIKE those jeans because they made me look like I had hips! Now they'd make me cringe. That should illustrate that body size/shape can and will change, and it's best to just accommodate whatever you are now. I spent a long time being depressed after gaining weight, and it still frequently bothers me, only because I found it much easier to dress myself back then, and I could wear a lot of edgy styles that most other women couldn't pull off. I could probably get back down to a 25" waist if I put in the effort, but the hips and bust are a lost cause, so I try to just make peace with the current situation (with varying degrees of success).

Anne, I think the key is always to focus on wherever you are the smallest. As long as your hips and bust are bigger, you'll be in good shape. For you it looks like around the same spot as me....just below the bust to an inch above the belly.

Also remember that you're not going to be leaving the house in that tight-ish cami. If I wore that, I would definitely be showing some belly bulge as well, and I have never given birh :p Even tiny Shiny, Sarah, and Tanya have mentioned having that squishy spot. Seems pretty universal.

shiny

Veteran

Maya - the side view - yes! You have a teeny tiny waist! There it is!!

Anne - you do NOT look 5 month's preggers. Gosh, I will have to take a photo of my belly when I get pre-menopausal TTOM and it balloons.

Your belly is exactly what the female belly is *supposed* to look like. It's our silly culture that has us all thinking we should have flat abs with 6-packs. Remember those photos are all air-brushed. They are illusions. Terrible ones that wreak havoc on our brains and self-esteem.

Sidenote: my DD's both really enjoyed the art (paintings and sculpures) in Paris because the women all had more realistic - yet beautiful - rounded figures.

Hee hee... now you realize why I always "strike a pose" in my shots!! If I did straight on photos, it's just not as flattering.

Plus, I have a long history of absolutely HATING to be photographed (my dad had a darkroom in the basement and was big in photography so constantly pointing his camera at me, which didn't help). I have always hated how I look in my photos, because I am just highly unphotogenic!!!

Anyway, YLF and posting my outfits is actually like a sort of therapy for me!!! It's getting me over that hatred. And learning to like my body better too. (However I still have trouble liking my face and how it looks in photos - because of my bone structure, I end up with weird shadows and I have gappy big teeth - which is one reason I always block it out.)

So remember to "strike a pose" (humming Madonna song as you do it).

Maya

Veteran

hmm, I think I might start posting more Shinyesque pictures (if I do start posting pictures regularly again). It can be entirely possible that an outfit looks great from the front, but when you turn around the butt is sagging or there are unflattering creases or it's too loose or too tight. Who knows?

Anne, I actually quite admire your build. You're very well proportioned. Nothing seems unusually large or small or out of place. You don't even seem all that long waisted to me. Just right.

anne

Veteran

Lovely ladies! thanks so much. I am afraid I can't respond in detail because all the posting and forum reading I have been doing of late is jiggering up my wrists, arm and shoulder and I feel the wise thing to do is take another YLF forum break until it feels better. Hopefully will "see" you soon