Waaah! Why does the quality stuff have to be so BORING?? - YouLookFab Forum

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Waaah! Why does the quality stuff have to be so BORING??

Fruitful

Veteran

Yesterday I went windowshopping and tried on a bunch of things, in a quest to better understand garment quality.

By the end of it I had a clear gestalt of which items were quality and what was inferior. In some cases, I saw the almost exact same type of item released by different makers at different quaiity points.

And oh, what an experience it was. For example, take a mod-inspired a-line-ish skirt with button detailing on the waistband/pockets. One from Target looked great on the dummy, but on me it was thin, clung in the wrong places, showed the shape of my undies and even some cellulite, and just felt a bit "cheap" to the touch. Up close,the gilt-rimmed buttons looked plasticky and I could foresee the gold peeling off. The colour was a bright red, yet somehow not the "right" red. There were lots like this from various chain stores.

Then there was one from David Lawrence. Wow. Lined, with a proper zip. Properly finished seams and hems. Smoothness and density without being stiff or heavy. Sitting easily over my hips and seat. Beautiful solid buttons. A colour that was well blended and in its own way "right", not off.

BUT.....I'm so sad...the wonderful David Lawrence skirt was BLOODY BORING. It was way long (without being a midi; just a knee length skirt erring on the long side). The colour, though well-blended and red, was muted, sombre, dull.

Has anyone else found this? That quality garment makers sacrifice colour and fun and risk? Why is this happening (I think I know)? Are the only makers that combine really good quality with bold colour and design, truly high end designers (which are of course out of my price range)? Do we have to choose between favouring quality or favouring fashion-forwardness? If we favour quality, do we let our colour palette and silhouette be dictated by it?

Edit: I just attached pictures. God help me. I see that Target skirt and I WANT it, yet I know I wasn't thrilled with it close up. Yet it also looks like I can't find a higher quality substitute. What to do... both with this item, and generally...

ETA: I'm only using David Lawrence as an example, but I notice some slightly more interesting colours/cuts on their website that weren't in the shop. Could retailers be more cautious with high quality (and expensive) garments to only stock things that are a safe sell?

http://shop.target.com.au/hot-.....knit-skirt
http://www.davidlawrence.com.a.....38;cat=170

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31 replies

Latest reply was from Suz

taylor

Veteran

My husband refers to the Target type clothes as throw away fashion...they never last:( I agree.... bad fit and quality isn't worth it unless you just want to wear it a few times and toss.
The finer quality skirt is one that I would have them tailor or have tailored and fit it to your body perfectly. You will have it forever. If it is worth the investment to you that is the route I would take. Fit is everything!
I don't find better pieces boring at all in color or design...I wonder why you experienced this.

Anonymous

Totally! We have a "department" store here in the states called Kohl's and they have some really practical, good quality clothing for Misses that is so well made, yet cut in a way that is never very flattering and often in dull colors or pastels that remind me of Easter time. They have some thick knitted tops with modest necklines but the way they are cut, or the trim or embordery used is just so dowdy that it makes me sad. So many women are driven into the junior's department unadvisedly for a little cheap and cheerful fun because of this. It's so discouraging!

Jilly

The Target skirt is really cute. I think you should just keep looking until you find the right item. It's got to be out there somewhere!

taylor

Veteran

Correct me if I am wrong...having never been in a Kohl's but I thought they were along the quality lines of Target...not better end.
Not that there is anything wrong with shopping for clothes at Target/Kohl's, but not what I would call quality clothing as Fruitful noticed a huge discrepancy on her shopping trip.

catgirl

Veteran

Hmm, Kohl's here is somewhere around Sears quality. A little better than Target brands, but not made to last.

My Nordstrom has been adding some designer brands that are pretty exciting (to me, anyway!) - Vince, Theysken's Theory, BCBG, and according to my favorite SA, DVF is coming soon! Not that I can afford any of those on a regular basis, but I am veering toward more expensive but fewer items now that I've narrowed my style a bit.

Boring can certainly be found at all price points!

Sole Femme Trader

Quality garment makers are not sacrificing colour and fun and risk. But, maybe to see this, you need to expand your universe, Go to Nordstroms or Bloomingdales, or Zara, if one is nearby, and compare what you see ther ewith Target. It all will be obvious to you.

taylor

Veteran

Thanks Una for clearing that up...I thought so.

I am also excited to see some wonderful names coming to my Nordies.
Better end items sometimes are a bit more boring (But not always) in color because when you invest in these items they need to stand the test of time...not always designed for current trends , that is why we are willing to invest.
The DVF wrap dress will always be ...what sets it apart from a Target wrap dress is the impeccable quality and fabric.

ironkurtin

Veteran

I usually find the higher-end stuff is MORE interesting than the lower end. But then I am pretty darn snobby, and I like European designers and the kind of designers Barneys carries. I buy them used or at clearance stores, but since those are the only places I shop, that's how I set my bar.

Fruitful

Veteran

Thanks Sole Femme Trader. I do live in Australia, and I am in a city. I am comparing Target and the many fast fashion stores with the brands within a department store such as Myer. I did do this at a suburban location; I'm sure there'd be quite a few more options in the city, but the suburban locations are quite representative generally speaking. I think the presence of a lot of colourful options at lower price and quality points, and more sombre colours, longer hemlines etc at high quality points, has something to do with the target market. The people with money to spend on better things (not counting really high end fashion or niche sellers like for instance Fluevog) tend to be professionals who have to dress conservatively for work. They might also be of a certain age, where understated elegance seems to be more of a priority (not saying it has to be, just seems to be common) than looking eyecatching/unusual/fun.

ETA, Sole Femme Trader, IME Zara has shockingly poor quality.

ironkurtin

Veteran

I wax always told Australia was a hotbed of cool young designers! Don't burst my bubble!

Fruitful

Veteran

IK, there are lots of cool young designers. But I have young children and it's not easy to get to those stores even though they're near my house. I went to a mall near my Dad's place and he looked after the children.

Near where I live, there are wonderful, colourful, well-cut, interesting local designer dresses for approx $300-$600. That's a little out of my price range right now. But I'm willing to spend more than the price of fast fashion.

I've read a few posts (look through my profile I've commented on some lately) where people say quality doesn't always equate with expensive (even though more expensive can often mean better). I'm comparing apples with apples, different quality items in the same kind of marketplace (a department store or mall for example). In that apples-with-apples situation, I do see an inverse relationship between eyecatchingness and quality.

KeepCalmAndCarryOn

I do find this sometimes, but then I don't have a very adventurous shopping range (mostly due to budget, not to choice). I shop Banana Republic quite often for end-of-season sales. When I find something that fits there it tends to last a long time and be a total pleasure to wear--lined pants for work being a good example. But besides the fact that many of their skirts and pants tend to be super-long (even for a long-legged, 5'5" lady like me), I am often disappointed by how much the fun or edginess in a look disappears when I try it on. Skirts that are supposed to be knee-length hit a few inches below the knee and wrap sweaters that looked provocative or cute on the hanger look like a 1950s secretary's outfit on me. I think that's partly because I'm still learning how to dress my body, though, and not necessarily because of quality.

What I do notice is that clothing from a 'nicer' place like Banana Republic, if it doesn't fit, tends to look conservative or dumpy rather than slutty or try-hard, which I find from places like H&M. And I totally agree that the difference in fabrics has a great deal to do with this.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I was going to say the same as IK - to me, most fast fashion is pretty basic, including most mall items. True 'designer' items, and I don't mean most brands you can buy at the mall, tend to have more out there, edgier options. I think what tends to be the most basic is middle of the road stuff as far as price goes - something you'd get at Nordstrom or maybe Macy's, more expensive than Kohl's/Target/H&M but not as $$ as Barneys or a designer boutique.

But then, I'm not a size where I can wear most designer clothes, so all I do is look and maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Beth Ann

Veteran

Actually, I've found that there isn't a iron clad relationship between quality, at least in workmanship made to last, and price or store. For example, I have a fabulous Hinge georgette top (maybe crepe?) from Nordstroms that is poorly stitched, with uneven seams and hanging threads. It retailed for $80, but I purchased it on clearance for $40. I found a more classic, but similar blouse by Chaps at Kohls. Curiously, the Kohls blouse originally retailed for $70, and I purchased it on clearance for $20. It has much finer stitching and far better buttonholes.. I've had Ann Taylor knits disintegrate despite delicate treatment, and some Merona by Target tees stretch out or shrink, and others live forever. This is part of the reason I rarely order online. To me, there is no substitute for feeling the fabric in my hands, examining the workmanship and deciding whether this item should be a wardrobe anchor, or a piece of fun I'll wear for one season. As for styling? I agree that the middle level and "bridge" lines often play it quite safe, which is understandable, but still frustrating! Sometimes shopping is rather like hunting and gathering -- always looking for hidden berries!

Beth Ann

Veteran

Actually, I've found that there isn't a iron clad relationship between quality, at least in workmanship made to last, and price or store. For example, I have a fabulous Hinge georgette top (maybe crepe?) from Nordstroms that is poorly stitched, with uneven seams and hanging threads. It retailed for $80, but I purchased it on clearance for $40. I found a more classic, but similar blouse by Chaps at Kohls. Curiously, the Kohls blouse originally retailed for $70, and I purchased it on clearance for $20. It has much finer stitching and far better buttonholes.. I've had Ann Taylor knits disintegrate despite delicate treatment, and some Merona by Target tees stretch out or shrink, and others live forever. This is part of the reason I rarely order online. To me, there is no substitute for feeling the fabric in my hands, examining the workmanship and deciding whether this item should be a wardrobe anchor, or a piece of fun I'll wear for one season. As for styling? I agree that the middle level and "bridge" lines often play it quite safe, which is understandable, but still frustrating! Sometimes shopping is rather like hunting and gathering -- always looking for hidden berries!

modgrl

(website)

Veteran

Reading your post has me thinking about Angie's series on Karen Kane from last year. Your local stores may be stocked with regional trends. They might also not be the front row merchandise of a particular chain of stores. My local bloomingdales has miles of Calvin klein, Jones New York and Ralph Lauren merchandise. They don't show any of the same lines that we saw at the Soho Bloomie's at the NYC meetup. Is it possible that you're not shopping in a region that draws cutting edge risk taking buyers? If that's the case, the buyers may not have any incentive to stock anything that reads as different. I know if I want to find something special I have to either order online or drive 1-2 hours, which is like never ever going to happen!

Deborah

Veteran

Fruitful, I relate to your dilemma. The target skirt is gorgeous, shame about the quality. I have to say in defense of Australian Target the quality is GENERALLY good. I have a few work dresses and casual items from Target and they have stood the test of time, are well made and look good.

I also find many of our more up market ranges a little boring and uninteresting. Others however are wonderful, but out of my general price range. I have recently been looking at ordering items from the USA which seem more moderately priced, even with the shipping!!

ManidipaM

Veteran

I agree with much of what Beth Ann said. It depends a lot on the retail manfacturing back story (fabric from somewhere, stitched elsewhere, different quality controls, a choice to sacrifice one or the other for bottomline reasons).

At the same time, Fruitful, I have had similar experience with affordable vs mid-range mall/departmental store fashion being more on-trend vs more bland. I think I've come to the conclusion that the apples to apples comparison is precisely the problem. These are all stores in a similar milieu, and thus draw a similar crowd. They are often in competition for the same person's money --- such as yourself.

If the mid-market lot had the same styles as a Target, they would not sell as much --- most people prefer to pay less for a trendy item, because it will go out of fashion and you will have to replace it (at least, that is the thinking for a lot of shoppers, I believe). For someone like that, the mid-market brand becomes a case of more expenditure breeding expectations of getting more wear. If it were on-trend, it wouldn't last as long. So it is more bland, to help it bridge several fashion seasons.

It is unfortunate for people like you and me, Claire and Beth Ann, who find it frustrating. Here we are, happy to spend a little more for quality, but with some fashion fillip to it as well --- and there's nothing there! But there is I think overall a greater recognition of our kind of buyers, and things *are* changing --- though I wish they'd hurry up already. The designer store lines (as with Nordies or Debenhams) are getting a little better.

But like Beth Ann said, it's also more involved than just price points equals quality, so the hunt continues and the net has to be spread pretty wide. I hope you have better luck with the skirt search soon.

Travelgal Nicole

Veteran

Total agree. Target fashion is a wear for a season and throw away. Maybe better luck shopping online?

jenanded

Veteran

I agree with you Fruitful (I am an Aussie too!)... Target looks better than it is on alas. And our main brands as you mention tend to be more boring if they are better made. Country Road, Cue and Veronika Maine have much funkier cuts than David Lawrence and Sportscraf twhich tend to be more dowdy (interestingly my Angie inspired list of what DOESNT work for me is that I fall in love with Sportscraft and then find they feel daggy wearing them thatt hey end up the consignment store!!) . I still question the longer term quality of the styles I love (compared to like Carla Zampatti - too fab but exxy and not every day!) but I think we are pretty strapped for choice here... Even Mela Purdie which is quite exxy gives up the ghost in a year or two and I think I look after my clothes pretty carefully... If you come up with any insights, would love to hear from you...

stringy

Veteran

jenanded makes some good points - David Lawrence and Sportscraft are more conservative than Cue, Country Road and Veronika Maine. I find Witchery is good if you like neutrals - their styles are edgier than their colours! And French Connection is also good quality, but targeted at younger people, lots of bright colours and on-trend styles.

Also it does make a difference which address of a store you go to. For example, in Perth there are two Portmans' stores just one street away from each other. One has the work wear with a few fashion pieces, the other has mostly fashion pieces with a few basic work items! I'm not sure if this is a deliberate marketing thing, or just a difference in taste between the store managers

anne

Veteran

Fruitful, don't have any new answers and am a little discouraged by hearing your results. I have been thinking of trying to break away from the low cost trendy kids shops, and yet going into Myer almost makes me hyperventilate from the prices, so I haven't even examined the merchandise.
Jenand, I like Cue too, but it is just too expensive and not suitable for a SAHM lifestyle. If I was to resume working in the corporate sphere, I would be very tempted to buy from them, From what I have seen, their quality is good

Fruitful

Veteran

Anne, I hyperventilate too But because I have enough clothes to get by, and I'm pretty good at opshopping, I'm prepared to get the occasional more expensive thing if I think it is worth it. The question is, finding what really is "worth it". I like Cue too but it is expensive, and I agree very office/cocktail oriented. The big problem for me is the disconnect between really getting excited about a colour or a cute shape but hohum on fit/quality (seeing lots of stuff like that anywhere from Sportsgirl to Myer Basement - not that they are cheap, but they are patchy on quality), and getting excited about beautiful texture, lining and fit, but feeling so-so on the colour and style (like the David Lawrence). The ideal would be to have both. But it seems like there's too great a leap in cost to that level of perfection.

I haven't given up, just trying to understand how it all works and where to go from there

jenanded

Veteran

I know its tricky. Mind you I have been lucky enough to shop NY and London and I feel a bit the same as here even though there is more variety. Primark in London has cool stuff in the cutest styles and most are under 10$ a piece. I think the fabric flats my daughter bought died pretty quicklly but the tops we both got still look perfect and her 6pound jeans are still going well... sigh... back in Bris Vegas and Melbourne... Have you tried Bardot (not that cheap) but cute trend items... I think they are in Myers in the young women's section. You sound younger than me but the styles look cute and I have been tempted to get a couple of tops myself....

anne

Veteran

oh yes. As you say" I'm prepared to get the occasional more expensive thing if I think it is worth it. The question is, finding what really is "worth it"."
A good question to ask and a hard one to answer!

Hope you do find something on this journey!

shipskitty

Veteran

Fruitful - my local (suburban) David Jones has nothing like the range that our central city one does - it is practically chalk and cheese. And even within a given brand that may be stocked at both - there is a much reduced set and it tends to be heaps less interesting. I much prefer to make time to shop at the city one for this reason.

Also David Lawrence from my experience is mostly a career-wear brand - at least that is certainly how I buy their clothing. So they probably tone it down a little to keep it more office-appropriate so you can dress it up and down. Mostly office basics that you can also wear in other contexts.

Fruitful

Veteran

Jenanded, I'm 36 so not exactly young I do like certain bold colours and shapes though, which often happen to be youthful.

I do like to have a good look around Princess Highway, Revival etc. But (and I should have explained in my OP) I have been studying posts on quality and so this time I was actively looking for markers of that. I was already suss on Revival, as I think they're more style than substance and have got up my goat for years for mass-marketing an idea of vintage uniqueness (sorry, off-topic but it just somehow rankles with me. Especially when they do it so cheaply, with loose buttons and broken threads...) But when I went and looked consciously I noticed for example that a dress I liked at Princess Highway had no lining, not a dealbreaker but it's something that makes a difference to me. It was also quite a stlff cotton that I thought would have been better if it was blended with something to improve flexibility. Doesn't mean I'd rule it out, but I'm trying to become aware of where corners are cut and what matters to me. What garments am I going to feel really happy wearing and get lots of joy out of.

I'm pretty sure nothing grabbed me at Bardot, and if I remember rightly they have lots of flimsy stuff that I'd tear in about 2 days.

My enquiry is partly about my own problem/practical needs, partly an intellectual pursuit of understanding the marketplace, and lastly philosophical, about what is excellence, what is "good enough", and what is that sweet spot when it comes to clothes and happiness.

I really need to think over some of the other replies as you have all given me food for thought and I'd like to address your ideas.

(ETA: that should have been "got my goat", not "got up my goat", LOL! I watch waaaaaayyyy too much Kath and Kim!)

Lyrebirdgully

Hi Fruitful, it was a turning point for me when I bought my first quality garment at full price, (after years of budget buying) - but it was one I have never regretted. I still wear my tailored, fully-lined cuffed man-style trousers made of pure merino wool, because after 30 years - and 2 babies later - merino wool just just refuses to wear out, and never loses its shape or texture! I have had the waistline taken in, and done various minor repairs, but I will wear them till disintegration do us part.
The search for the perfect garment is indeed a lot of work - it took me 6 months to find the perfect lined black skirt for work last year, and then I still had to have the waist altered - but if you know you won't ever feel fantastic in a crummy garment, I can vouch that it's worth being patient and stalking that elusive quality piece.
I can back up what Stringy and Shipskitty say about variation between branches of chain stores in Australia. The more senior staff at your local branch should be able to tell you which of their branches will stock certain brands, or editions of brands.
BTW, If you like mod/retro fashion, have you tried the shops listed in this blog ?
http://modsaustralia.webs.com/modfashion.htm (scroll all the way down)
As you are time-poor, you could take along a picture of the Target skirt and ask shop assistants where you could get something like that. Some experienced assistants are very knowledgeable about their competitors! And do go into those upmarket boutiques ( I used to feel too "unworthy" to do this) and get to know which designers are doing the stuff that you like. Once you know those brands, you can check whether the same thing is available elsewhere (say, CBD David Jones), where the size range ( and prices) may be better. Also, keep dropping in, cultivate the staff, and find out when their sales are on. If you drop in frequently, if very briefly, and they know what you are after, they may contact you when something along those lines comes in. Good luck!

Fruitful

Veteran

Lyrebird, I really appreciate hearing your experience. I'm not just time poor, I do have to dig around for a while for money before I can buy something - but this is all the more reason I'm prepared to wait for something good when appropriate.

I really want to reply thoughtfully to your (and others') suggestions but it is late I'm really happy to be receiving this information though.

And I love the look of that mod blog; I've bookmarked it (and had a little laugh to see Gallaghers on the front page - takes me back!)

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