Vanity sizing is getting ridiculous

Mo

I agree completely. We've had discussions on this before. Some think it makes sense. I don't. But I would be happiest with an inches based system like men have. Dress shirts by collar and sleeve, pants by waist and inseam. Makes sense to me!

13 years ago

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

At ON I should be an XXS

When I was little, I was a M. I guess I shrunk. Darn; shouldn't have taken so many baths.

13 years ago

machanteuse (Lori)

Active Member

Yeah, I've usually been a medium when I'm at a reasonable weight. But I'm already having to size down to smalls sometimes. I even bought an XS top at LOFT - I thought I grabbed the M, tried it on and it fit fine. I was shocked when I took it off and saw the size!

I think the inch system would make more sense too - although when I try on jeans that are sized by waist measurement, sometimes I'm a 28, sometimes I'm a 30. I think I really should be a 29. Something isn't quite right here!

13 years ago

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

This is tricky when I do outlet shopping - I'm usually an S; but recently they've been quite baggy! Now I can't tell if I'm an S or an XS. Grr. :p Oh well, more stuff to try on!

I am an L at some places which makes me grumpy.

Also; one of my favourite stores at which I used to be an XS at, I am now too small for their clothes. The last SA didn't believe me, so I showed her. And she looked shocked.

13 years ago

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Just a tip on the jeans thing, although they are listed as waist I really think they correlate more closely to hip size, because many of them are lower rise and don't hit at our natural waist. In other words, size 28 jeans correlate to a 38" hip but the waistband is more likely 32" or so.

13 years ago

goldenpig

(website)

Veteran

I don't really care what size I am, I just wish it could be 1) consistent and 2) accurate (like true inch measurements). I have clothes everywhere from size XS to L and 2-10! I agree, even the supposedly accurate jeans sizing is weird. Like when I measure my waist, it is 31 inches at the smallest portion and 37 at the hips. Yet my jeans size is 28. I don't measure 28 inches anywhere on my body. That makes zero sense to me! I hate not being able to tell what size I am. I always have to order two sizes and return one. Such a pain!

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

Lori, you are right on. This is a huge part of what's contributing to my current body dysmorphia issues. I'm a M or even a L at F21, anywhere from XS to M at Gap, BR and ON, and a size 4 to 6 in more expensive brands. I don't mind being the size I am, but I resent the time wasted in figuring out what size to buy, sometimes even within the same brand.

I'm certainly not big, but I remember being a size 10 back when I was a teen in what would now be 80s vintage sizing. It's confusing and frustrating, and there are days when I feel huge because I'm not an XXS now, which seems to be the vanity norm. And I'm on my way to my normal weight of 115 pounds when I get the last few pounds off! Sheesh.

13 years ago

DonnaF

Veteran

Are junior sizes less inflated? I am normally a PXS or a P2/P4, but the Nordstrom size chart for Brass Plum Junior sized Jolt jeans jacket indicates I would be a Medium. That makes sense, because in the 1980s I was a P6, and I definitely am not smaller than I was nearly 20 years ago.

13 years ago

catgirl

Veteran

People say juniors run small, but I'd say they are more TTS in old-school terms. I was always a 7 or 9 in juniors and still am. Whereas in adult brands I've gone from a 10 to a 4 despite weight gain!

13 years ago

ironkurtin

Veteran

It gets even worse with European sizing! Grab a bunch of 42s from different brands and be prepared to feel like Alice in Wonderland. Too big! Too small! Too long! Too tight!

I would just like to tell Eileen Fisher there is no way I am a 2; premium jeans that I am NOT and never HAVE been a 26(!!!) or a 27; and every single European designer that jeez louiz, having a 36B top means that I should fit into a M, not to mention a L - unless European ladies have no bosoms?!

13 years ago

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I think it's funny when I go to the thrift store and I can buy about 4 different sizes and they all fit - even with 'consistent' brands you can see how things have gotten bigger over time, because something in a 90s silhouette will be smaller in the same size number than something more recent.

I feel for those of you who are small, because it's getting to the point that the smaller sizes just don't exist in the stores any more. I have a friend who's short and small, and she has a hard time finding inexpensive clothes at places like Target and Gap these days. I now wear the same size I wore about 5 years ago, when I was 10-15 pounds lighter - and that's convenient for me, but pretty messed up if you think about it.

13 years ago

Nadya

Veteran

I read an article last year about how even men's clothing are starting to creep into vanity sizing - a 32 pair of slacks had a pretty big variation across brands!

13 years ago

taylor

Veteran

At 5'4 and 100 lbs NOTHING fits me off the rack at all.
00R are too big and 00p are often too short. Literally every 00 skirt in my closet (about 30) has to be slimmed so most are 00p and are about an inch shorter than I like. dresses must be 00p or they are too wide all over and again about an inch shorter than I like. Sweaters and cardigans have to be xxsp or they have to be slimmed.
I am literally sized out of the market completely right now...I think if I were a few inches shorter but the same weight I could buy all 00p, but I fear it is only a matter of time before they are too big too and I am back to the children's dept They really need to get a handle on this vanity sizing , those small framed women like myself are sized out completely.

13 years ago

velvetychocolate

Veteran

This has been bothering me a whole lot too. It's very frustrating not knowing what size you are. I have clothes that are size small to large and they all fit me. I also have clothes ranging from a size 4 to a 12 and they all fit as well.

I have to agree with Una on this - I think it's contributing to my body image issues, this wonky sizing that's been going on for the past few years (several years? Not sure because I did lose a bunch of weight). The weird thing is that I am the same weight now as I was in 1990 and back then I wore a size 14. These days I am mostly a size 8-10.

Hate to say it, but I'd almost rather be a size large or a size 14 if that meant things would fit consistently and I could shop more confidently. I have no idea what to say when my Mom asks me, "What size are you?" because she's wondering about holiday or birthday gifts. It's been a few years now since my husband chanced buying any kind of clothing gift for me.

I don't care what the number is (agree with Natalie here) - I just want it to be reasonably consistent.

13 years ago

afterism

Active Member

Don't be too jealous of the men. DH is 3 different sizes in pants.

I always thought they had it easy as well, right up until I started shopping for him.

13 years ago

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I agree with IK - European sizes can also confuse the heck out of you. Italian sizes in particular completely differ from anything else (I know that that is standard but it is confusing). So I might be a French 38, an Italian 42, British 8. Then there is the 0,1,2,3,4 sizing system sometimes used in Israel and France. So I might pick up a top that says 4 and it is actually XXL. And, of course, vintage clothing is sized completely differently and the waists are tiny. I must say that label size has no effect on me, good or bad, anymore.

13 years ago

Fruitful

Veteran

I hate vanity sizing, and Mo is right on that there should be a measurements system.

What I hate even more is online sellers who think we should just go by the meaningless size number. Would it kill them to post some measurements?

13 years ago

Anonymous

Fruitful, you are too funny! I totatlly agree!

The thing I remember most about the 80's was how small the waists were on the skirts and pants (and they fit at the actual waist then.) I was a 10 or 12 only because of the waist and I guess everything just bagged on me. Oversized fit seemed to be popular. I remember always having to buy a Large in things like turtle necks just to get the arms long enough. Now that many things are low waisted, I'm much happier. And the new high-waisted skirts seem to be more generous in the waist (for their size) than their 80's counterparts. And the arms in a Small fit me now (sorry petites!) I'm glad for that at least.

13 years ago

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I posted a while back on this subject; I had wondered why my (tiny) mother kept INSISTING she was a size 14. Then I looked at some patterns from her youth and hey, wow, if you had a 32 bust and a 25 waist you WERE a size 14 then (at least in sewing patterns, and she sewed many of her clothes). She wears a 2 or 4 petite today. And could be wearing smaller clothes except she has relatively wide shoulders.

As for me, I used to be a much bigger size, too, when I was a teen. Like others, I do not care about the number, but I would like to have some rough idea of what might fit. I try to "eyeball" the item but since I've recently changed weight/size I am not always that good at estimating what will work and that means budgeting more time for shopping.

Taylor, I sympathize with you. I am your height but 15 pounds heavier. Those extra pounds make it just BARELY possible for me to fit into (some) clothes off the rack...or with hemming, or a bit of narrowing or a nip at the waist...but it is ridiculous that someone my size will be wearing a 0 petite! I am not especially short and I'm not even an ectomorph. Yet I am sized out in brands like Lands End, Eddie Bauer and more. This does not seem right to me.

At the same time, I know that larger women are also left out of the picture a heck of a lot of the time. So who CAN find clothes that work for them, then?

13 years ago

nancylee

Veteran

It is pretty funny. When I was younger I was always an 8 or a Medium. These days I'm a 4-6 and always a Small.

13 years ago

Girl X

(website)

Veteran

When I was in high school I was a size 3 or 4, 15 years and 10lbs + later and I'm a 0 or a 00. How many more 0s can they add before they decide to just start using negative numbers?

13 years ago

shoppingisfun

(website)

Veteran

At under 5'1" and around 97 lbs, I am sized out of almost every affordable brand of clothing that I can find to buy in my area. Sometimes I can wear a 00P at Banana Republic (& their factory store), and 00Ps from LOFT usually fit. Other than that I'm pretty much stuck with the juniors department. Being so short, though, most of that stuff doesn't really fit right either. I realize that other brands do sell petite sizes (J. Crew and Gap come to mind), but they don't actually sell them in stores and I am reluctant to pay shipping to buy a bunch of stuff that I'll probably just have to return anyway.

On the subject of Old Navy, I'm pretty much completely sized out of their clothes and very rarely even bother to go there anymore. I can wear some of their pajamas and sweats (things that don't actually need to FIT)...that's about it. I did order a pair of their smallest sized petite jeans one time...they were baggier than the same (regular) size I'd tried on in the store....the ON logo on the inside was also printed on, rather than embroidered like it was on the regular sized pair...it kind of made me think that their 'petite' version of these jeans really wasn't the same at all, even though they were both "diva" or something like that. Naturally, I returned them.

13 years ago

Beth Ann

Veteran

At the the other end of the misses size spectrum (most often a 12 or a large), I often find myself taking 2 sizes at a time into the dressing room and very rarely ordering online. One of the most frustrating things is that there is a greater difference between sizes on the higher end of the scale. If a 12 is too small (too bootylicious) , the 14 is often too big (frumptastic). My weight has to fluctuate close to 20 lbs. to change in size! The good news? Christmas cookies are not a problem. The bad news? I've gained 10 lbs before I notice it, even in my skinny jeans! Of course, it takes me quite a while to lost the 10 lbs! I do feel for my fairy-sized sisters. Perhaps there is need for broader ranged sizing, as well as more standardization.

13 years ago

ButterflyLady

(website)

Veteran

I agree - I would like more of a standardisation between brands. I'm not sure about using measurements - I find jeans sizing in 'waist' sizes really confusing - I ordered about 5 pairs recently as I just couldn't work out what size I needed. I'm an hourglass, and needed them to fit on the hips first, then I could alter the waist. I ended up buying the jeans that fitted - 30" size - I have a 27 inch waist and 39 inch hips - no idea how that worked out!!

Don't even get me started on children's clothing - here in the UK they size everything by age, which I find ridiculous! I have friends who worry that their 5 year old is wearing clothes that are labelled for age 6 or 7. I am 47, but all other 47 year old women are not the same size as me!

13 years ago

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Once again, the jean waist size corresponds to a hip size roughly 10 inches bigger. Goldenpig, that's why the 28's (which has a 38" hip) fit on your 37" hips, and Butterfly Lady, that's why size 30's fit your 39" hips (the jean should measure 40" across the hips). Make sense?

And I do feel sorry for those who've gotten sized out of clothes. I have been saying for a while now that if they think I am xs at 5'4.5" and 118 pounds, then what are truly small ladies to do?!

13 years ago

machanteuse (Lori)

Active Member

Thanks to Claire for posting some links from Angie's blog on afterism's standardized sizing post. Eventually I ended up at vanity sizing.com, which was written by a fashion manufacturing expert. She does get very indignant (or worse) but I understand her point. She would say that adjusting sizing to fit the changing market has nothing to do with vanity, and I can understand the reasons why there would need to be larger sizes available if people are getting larger. It doesn't explain to me why the numbers have to change, but her logic on the sizes that are produced makes sense.

That being said, I feel frustrated when there is a need in the marketplace and no one is meeting it. I have seen the options for XW shoes dwindle among some manufacturers - I even sent an email to Naturalizer about it a few years ago. Their response was that they have to tailor their product to what the market is asking for. I wanted to say, duh, I'm asking for XW shoes! But I guess if you fall into a niche market, it's just your tough luck.

Maybe that is my real issue - I feel indignant on behalf of any segment of the population whose needs aren't being met in the mainstream. I would love to see thing be more equal so that everyone can get stylish and affordable clothes (and shoes!) that fit.

13 years ago

shoppingisfun

(website)

Veteran

@Lori, I believe I've read the article you're referring to. Regardless of the reasoning, though, it's pretty ridiculous (you'd think a company would at least post a warning on their website when the sizes are changed??).

I do find it odd that someone 5'4" and 115lbs would be considered an XS. Not that it's big, but I'm way smaller than that! And whenever I go to the mall here in Sacramento, I see lots of fashionable small girls (usually Asian) rocking fashionable clothes; I looked at the shopping bag one was carrying recently (I wanted to copy her style!) and saw it was from a kids' store! There are lots of people around here that are smaller than I am, and I barely fit into Banana Republic's and LOFT's XXSP and 00P. There is definitely a market for smaller sizes, at least around here...but apparently no one wants to make them. It's sad. I fear that in a couple of years, the sizes will get bigger again and I won't be able to shop anywhere. As it is, I have to take many of my clothes to the tailor.

13 years ago

Gaylene

Veteran

While I do understand the frustration at not knowing what size to take into the dressing room or to order online, I just want to put a word in (again) for non-standardization.

This topic comes up in the forum every couple of months. And I know I'm repeating by making the point that women's bodies come in such wide variety of shapes that it would be impossible to design a pair of jeans that would fit a 125 pound 5'7" racy rectangle and a 125 pound 5'3" pretty pear in the same way. And that completely ignores variations like long-rise/short-rise, style, fabric, and fit. Some ladies like a very close fitting garment, while others prefer more ease. To me, a jacket that can't button doesn't fit, while others would maintain that it was perfectly acceptable if the owner didn't intend to button the jacket anyway.

So here's to a wide variation in sizing. It means taking more things into the fitting room, but it also means that I can find clothes that fit my unique body shape. As a racy rectangle, I'd be a lot more unhappy if manufacturers decided to standardize all their garments to fit only hourglasses. That would make shopping a true nightmare.

13 years ago

HelenInCanada

Veteran

The inconsistency in sizing drives me batty, too. It's one thing for different countries to have different sizing (I assume it's because averages differ), but for one brand? Odd.

13 years ago

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