This Just In From the Vivienne Files: A Post about Used Clothing - YouLookFab Forum

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This Just In From the Vivienne Files: A Post about Used Clothing

Mary Beth (formerly LBD)

(website)

Veteran

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9s2n.....nkings.jpg

I didn't see any other thread about this post, but the topic is one that's been in my mind for quite some time - because here is something I have wondered about the workers in countries known for their disregard of human rights...

Yes, many of these workers make meagre earnings, and live a paltry existence. But if you don't buy anything from that country... how do they make a living at all? What will become of these people then?

And.... discuss.

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14 replies

Latest reply was from Firecracker (Sharan)

dizzys

This is a very touchy subject and one of the reasons why I try to buy used when I can. There is a great book that touches on this subject and covers the history of luxury brands. Great read. Deluxe: How Luxury Lost Its Luster http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/.....mdp_mobile

Thistle

Veteran

Honestly, how do you buy almost anything ethically, especially consumer goods? There was a write up on the squallor of migrant camps in Italy as bad as anything in very poor countries, but the goods they made still got the Made in Italy stamp and people assumed made by Italian craftsmen.

I would love an answer to this. I tried for a while, but the amount of research was just too much.

Mary Beth (formerly LBD)

(website)

Veteran

I am eventually going to check that book out - I've got a long to-do list already.

I agree, it is a very touchy subject, particularly since so many of us were affected by the recession, and don't have a lot of money to spend on clothes. And if you have kids, you are replacing clothes on a regular basis. I don't know how my mom ever managed with four kids, or how my sister keeps her three neatly-attired.

I am still looking at the site referenced in the Vivenne Files post, I am curious how/where they gather their data to make that chart.

Mary Beth (formerly LBD)

(website)

Veteran

Thistle, I don't know where to even begin. It occurs to me, that usually industrial 'revolutions' have to begin from the inside, with the workers, on their timetable.

I didn't know about migrant labor camps in Italy!

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I think about this a lot. I wonder, does my thrifting habit encourage other people to buy fast fashion and wear it only a few times (or not at all) and then donate, because there's an outlet for those items in thrifters like me?

Is a bad wage better than none at all? I wish there was a better way to know working conditions in factories and make our choices based on that. I support the idea of buying local in some circumstances but we live in a global economy and I know that my consumer dollars, in a roundabout way, do help people in developing countries. It's a conundrum, for sure.

rachylou

Veteran

I would like to make one peanut gallery comment as a preppy: Do-good fashion irks my nerves. Preppy dilettantes who fiddle around for a couple of years "working with women to uplift their impoverished circumstances through clever headbands made from old magazines." That sort of thing. They go to get their pictures taken with little ethnic children and then abandon the whole thing because good preppies should have the sense to come back from Bofu Botswana and get a job in finance. In the mean time, they have gone around the countryside paying too much for everything, promoting ideas and practices that are inappropriate for the place. For example, in Jamaica, where my dad was born, all these Americans have come and made it so that houses cost $200,000 +. They want to pay a *fair price* but they have no idea what fair is with respect to the local economy. Another thing that's happened is that they introduced suburban type development. Clear cutting for tract housing, making deserts out of rain forest. Little kids in China dipping their arms into vats of poison to disassemble our old computers is egregious. Their not having t.v. is not. You frankly, sometimes, wish certain people would stay home and not come to help.

qfbrenda

Veteran

There's almost no way to win on this one. I could decide to buy only used clothing, but because of where I live that would mean many more hours on the road with lots of extra gas used. So then I would be making the shopping police happy while offending the environmentally conscious.

A sticky wicket, for sure.

desishway

Member

This is such a fascinating and challenging issue to redress- Rachylou, I am with you on many Westerners not *really* understanding the impact their actions have on countries in the Global South. I interned for a year in Jordan with a development company there, and was able to work on a number of projects involving the garment factories there, and the foreign workers at them. Fun fact- the workers in the Jordanian textile industry are almost entirely from Asia, especially the Philippines.

I think a huge part of this is to figure out how much you can reasonably take into account. For example, American Apparel rated quite well in that chart (A-) yet is famous for the sexual harassment and horrific mistreatment of their store employees and models. How do you decide what is important enough to change your shopping habits.

Personally, I think the best we can do is to shop responsibly- based on our budget, our needs, and an educated understanding of what the ethical issues are- and make a decision that we each feel comfortable with, whatever it is. Our clothes happiness factor will plummet if we don't feel as though we have made decisions in line with our values.

Gaylene

Veteran

I think this is a complicated subject that doesn't lend itself to easy answers or arbitrary lists of "good" and "bad" companies. And I agree with Rachylou that well-meaning intentions and interventions from first-world citizens often have unintended consequences that can lead to disasterous consquences for those being "helped".

My own take is much like desishway's last comment. I think, as someone who is lucky enough to not have to worry about obtaining the necessities of life, I still have a responsibility to behave ethically, morally, and responsibly. That means I ought to think of the true cost of what it took to provide me with my inexpensive t-shirt and to not think of it just as just a cheap, disposable fix for feeling bored with my wardrobe. I ought to ask myself if I really need another trendy top, or skirt, or pair of shoes if I have a closet full of perfectly wearable items. And I need to take the blinders off about where the items that I purge so blithely actually end up and what effect they might have on the livelihood of someone on the other side of the globe.

My happiness factor with my wardrobe doesn't mean much if it includes a misery factor for someone less fortunate. Being a responsible consumer is hard when I live in an environment that promotes endless buying, but that doesn't mean I ought not to at least give it my best effort.

Caro in Oz

Veteran

I too find this a really difficult subject & like Gaylene, I think it is important to do the best I can with the information I have.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I am a big second hand shopper but I do not think this absolves me from all ethical responsibility or that all my purchases are automatically an A+ on the scale of ... what exactly? I also noticed American Apparel's high rating despite the company's many known ethical problems. It is a very complicated issue; as Rachylou points out, all well intentioned intervention is not necessarily helping anyone. And I agree very deeply that expecting masses of people to buck the tide of a heavily consumer oriented society is not the solution.

Kristin L

Veteran

I saw that scale on pinterest the other day. I looked on the Vivienne Files and saw that there were multiple scales, like environmental friendly and human rights, so I'm not sure which one this falls into. The mix of brands and stores, like Patagonia and Dillard's, makes me wonder how they came up with the list.

There are a lot of things we need to fix, but like Rachylou said, when some people go in, does it actually help? And why, as a society, do we feel the need to "buy buy buy" and demand cheap prices when we know where the clothes are coming from and the conditions it took to make them.

I say this, but I do feel like I take advantage of people buying lots of clothes and them donating them because I like going to Goodwill/thrift stores to find clothes. If everyone did buy less and would wear something until it was no good anymore, there probably wouldn't be as much at thrift stores.

anne

Veteran

This is such a complex and fraught issue and has been discussed on YLF before. I decided about 8 months ago to buy "ethical" where possible. I also decided to do a 12 in 12 challenges (12 items only in 12 months) but decided against this as I needed lots of replacements.

Apart from one special event outfit (for which I gave myself an "out" to buy from normal places), a 50c op shop dress I picked up last week and a packet of pantyhose I basically haven't bought anything at all in those 8 months!! This is partly because I needed to concentrate on buying winter clothing (still to come in Australia) but partly because I found it difficult and overwhelming and have just put it off.

I don't want to let go of this plan, but the issues are complex - as seen from the thread above.

Firecracker (Sharan)

Veteran

La Belle, you raise a thought-provoking question. I agree with Desishway's comments:
"I think a huge part of this is to figure out how much you can reasonably take into account," and "I think the best we can do is to shop responsibly- based on our budget, our needs, and an educated understanding. . ."
Clothing one's family is understandably a greater priority than trying to take on the welfare of the people producing the clothes. If the best we can do is avoid the worst human-rights offenders, then that's at least a place to start. That doesn't address the problem of figuring out who they really are, though.

My favorite boutique is owned by a woman who takes care to buy her merchandise from ethical producers--it's a major criterion, along with all the other things she has to keep in mind to stock a store with items that will appeal to her clientele. It's not an easy job, and that's one reason that I will go out of my way to shop at her store and support her business. Of course, I can't claim that I would go out of my way if she didn't have an awesome eye for styles, offer amazing clothes, and impeccable service. I mean, really--yes, I guess I have my rather self-centered priorities.