This is why I laugh when people say Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 - YouLookFab Forum

Category

General

This is why I laugh when people say Marilyn Monroe was a size 16

Maya

Veteran

Look at this dress.

http://www.modcloth.com/store/.....tars+Dress

It's a size 16.

Now look at the measurements! This wasn't THAT long ago either...1970's.

Moreover, regarding the Marilyn Monroe myth...can't people tell just by looking at her that she isn't a modern size 16? Am I the only one that doesn't find her "plump" in the least? I actually find that insulting and not very encouraging for most women today. That would basically mean that I am chubby because I have a big bust and curvy bum. What does that do for my morale, or the morale of the majority of women who wear larger sizes than I do? I never understood why this is such a popular rumor. It has the opposite of the intended effect if you ask me...

General

32 replies

Latest reply was from Maya

Dusty

(website)

Yikes, that's tiny! I think sizes USED to be intended to be indicative of the age one was expected to be when you wore that size.

Although, I've always heard Marilyn was a size 12. Going by her measurements - 37-23-36 or 35-22-35 (depending on who you believe), she'd be a 10 on top, with significant waist alterations and a 2 or a 4 on bottom in today's sizing.

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

I actually saw some of her garments in a museum- very fitted garments. They were tiny!

Maya

Veteran

I have heard everything from a 10-16. That should be the first indication that it is a myth!

I actually think those sizes are still much too big. I wear a 2 or 4 and I sure as heck don't have a 23" waist. A size 0 usually corresponds with a 24" or 25" waist.

Mamapicklejuice

Veteran

Okay, I'm fairly certain those are "flat pattern" measurements. So the bust is really more like a 34" and the waist would be a 26." I'm still a little surprised that it's a 16 if it's circa 1970's. I thought the pattern sizing changed a decade or two earlier. I currently sew a 12 in patterns, a 14 in patterns before 1973 and a 16 in circa 1950s patterns.

Anyway, long story short to say that's about a size 4 in rtw today.

Maya

Veteran

Haha obviously MPJ! Who has a 13.5" waist! :p But still, 13.5" x 2 is 27, which is my size. Yes, a size 4.

Mamapicklejuice

Veteran

Okay, well, sorry for my math mistake. Sizing has changed. I don't really think about the numbers too much. Like I said, I could be a 4, 6, 12, 14 or 16 depending on the era of the garment. I would never look like MM tho - she had very unique measurements. I also sew for kids - so 13.5 inch waist didn't throw me very much! lol

I can sew how the myth started as not everyone is educated about the changes in sizing standards. I also think the had her plump phases (see "Some Like it Hot"). It wouldn't take a lot of extra weight to make her curvy - she was fairly short and busty with a narrow rib cage. I thought she was particularly delicious in that movie, btw.

Kristine

Veteran

Yeah, I'm sure this rumor relates to sewing or upscale fashion sizes. I'm a 4 and when I sew I use something like a 10/12.

I love that dress by the way!

Maya

Veteran

I know sizing standards have changed but I mean people should just be able to look at her and see that she is not a modern size 16, no matter how curvy her bust and hips were.

(I suck at math too...I used a calculator to make sure, hehe)

Lee Hovey

I am just not sure we should allow the rumored sizes of celebrities affect our morale, as you mentioned, Maya. Who cares what size she was in comparison to ourselves??

She was her, we are us. We all have different bodies. One's morale should only be affected by how one feels about themself... am I healthy? And I comfortable in my own skin? Am I dressing to flatter my current shape?

Sorry to be the downer...

Maya

Veteran

No, I totally agree with you Kendra! I just see that as being an argument being made very frequently to make women feel better about their size. I couldn't give a fig how my size relates to MM. I don't actually envy her body, to be honest.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I'm sure if Marlyn was on the forum today she would have to alter all of her clothes. Her proportions were phenomenal, and in my opinion proportion is far more important than size. Maya, I never bought she was a UK size 16 never mind a US 16.

marianna

Veteran

I'm a size 16 and I obviously look nothing like Marilyn Monroe. Case in point.

rae

(website)

Veteran

According to this site, she weighed 118 lbs. Yeah, that's a size 16... (crosses eyes). With her bust size and that weight, I'd believe it if she did have a 23 inch waist, sheesh!

http://marilynmonroepages.com/facts.html

Maya

Veteran

I reemphasize that I didn't mean that *I* care about her size. I thought this was a well known rumor but I could be wrong.

That's one of the reasons I don't envy her or her figure Julie. As a "normal" non-celebrity, she would have a devil of a time getting clothes to fit. As an actress, she was typecast and valued almost exclusively for her body and blonde hair. I truly couldn't envy her less.

Yikes Rae, her dressmaker claims her measurements were 35-22-35. 22! Good grief.

Dusty

(website)

"I actually think those sizes are still much too big. I wear a 2 or 4 and I sure as heck don't have a 23" waist. A size 0 usually corresponds with a 24" or 25" waist."

I was actually going off her hips - she'd have to have the waist altered on absolutely everything.

Maya

Veteran

Ah, gotcha Dusty.

garmenta

Whatever Marilyn Monroe's actual waist measurement, you can bet she was cinched into her dresses by some heavy-duty 1950s shapewear.

Lee Hovey

LOL good point Garmenta!

Maya, ok, I stand corrected. I guess I was put off by when you said "what does that do for my morale?"... you're way to fab to let a celeb rumor affect your morale

anne

Veteran

Maya, the version of the rumour as I have encountered ( and I have come across it a lot) usually either goes
a)" "ideal" body shapes have changed a lot of the decades. Look at curvy size 12 MM compared to the waifs of today"

or

b) "look how good MM was and she was a size 12"

Garmenta, I know shape wear was pretty much everyday wear back then, but I have read that MM liked to wear no underwear under her clothes! (haven't checked this though)

Joanna Lumley, the British actor in Abfab, was a model in the 60s in Britain and said in her memoirs that she was a size 12 and that was the standard model size at that point, with a 34 inch bust.

Mamapicklejuice

Veteran

Anne - those are the versions I'm familiar with as well...not sure why those would be considered harmful to anyone's morale...if anything holding up a curvy body (and yes, she did have her plump phases) as an ideal is a good thing, in my book.

londonkiwi (now back in NZ)

Veteran

Isn't a US 12 the equivalent of a UK 16 - perhaps that is where the confusion comes from?

Maya

Veteran

It just makes no sense to me because those statements are misleading. A size 12/14/16/whatever you heard she was, was small back then. MM was curvy, but she was thin or at the very worst average (I disagree that she was ever really "plump"--guess that is subjective), and her body is at least as unattainable as any of the size 0 catwalk waifs of today. Why she is used as the ultimate size/ body type role model for women is what I do not understand. I don't really understand using ANY single person as a size or body type role model but especially someone with such a unique set of measurements and a size that--even when you take her biggest measurements from when she was at her largest--is still below average for today's women.

Queen Latifah is a role model! She isn't a perfect hourglass. She isn't a size 0. But she is a beautiful woman.

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

I guess you could turn it around and think that her body (which was very unique) was held up and glorified, so that each of our own unique bodies could also be the ideal to some certain sect in certain circumstances.
Every Woman the Ideal?
I don't know- I have a migraine so maybe I am not making sense LOL

shiny

Veteran

I'll be the naysayer here. First, if you look at Marilyn's photos, her weight fluctuated quite a bit. Second, celebrities have been known to lie about their weight and their measurements.

I find it VERY hard to believe she had 35 inch hips. That's what I have, and I'm 5' shorter than her. What's more, today's typical model has 35 inch hips. She is far more curvy than today's typical model. She has thighs. She has wiggle. She has breasts.... 118? No way! At that height, she would have no chest and be skin and bones.

I absolutely believe Marilyn - at times - was a today's size 12 or 14. And, I think she was absolutely gorgeous. I would kill to have her figure.

Maya

Veteran

If your waist is significantly smaller than your hips and bust, it can give the illusion that your hips and bust are much bigger than they really are. A person who is 28-35 is going to look very different than someone who is 23-35. Also, how you carry weight in your bottom half can create different impressions. She was also a 36D, which is actually a very average size today (keeping in mind that most women wear the wrong bra size). It just looked large compared to her teeny waist.

One might guess that I had either a small or no chest at 105 pounds, but I was a D cup. Bust size is mostly genetic. Anyone at any weight can have any cup size.

I'd loathe having her body. I struggle enough as it is to look modest and get a good fit.. It's a very good thing that she had mostly custom made clothes, otherwise I have no idea how she would fit into absolutely anything off the rack.

Maya

Veteran

Back to the point though...that cute dress is tiny.

medusa

Veteran

Wikipedia has a chart for "women's standard clothing sizes" which it says was developed in the 40s & 50s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.....thing_size

According to the chart I should wear a size 8 or 10, and I actually wear a 4 or 6 most of the time.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

Maya, just to add fuel to your fire, here's a bio of Marilyn compiled by handbag.com who state MM was a 16.
http://www.handbag.com/fashion.....-2/gallery

Shiny just for reference when I left university I weighed 119lb, wore a UK size 8-10 but had a cup size e and I'm 5 ft 8.

Maya

Veteran

I would prefer to just let this thread go. I think my point is being missed and it isn't that important anyway. But by all means...continue the discussion if you please! I have nothing more to say on the subjet though. It generated a lot more controversy than I expected so I'd rather not participate myself.

12