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The School Yard... grrrr

Deborah

Veteran

Hi Ladies!

Over the past 12 months DH and I have slowly been introducing some sex education for Master 10.

We have always been very open about such things and from a young age taught Master 10 the correct names of things etc. And we always answer an questions he has properly and truthfully.

We hadn't quite got to the 'mechanics' of sex.... SO tonight at dinner (me and Master 10, DH is at a meeting) he tells me a girl in his class told all the kids in his section of the bus (on a school excursion yesterday) about how one makes babies! The language she used was a little crude and I have to confess to not liking this little girl (I feel bad admitting it, but at 10 she is already one of the mean girls and too old for her age).

I know its not unusual for kids to talk about these in the school yard, but I do feel i need to mention it to the teacher. What I am not happy about is the way it was spoken about. I feel that perhaps this little girl needs have it explained to her that it's not her responsibility to be 'educating' her classmates.

Would you chat with the teacher? We attend a Christian school and those values are very important to us, and I really don't want to see this girl going around unchecked speaking about sex the way she did.

Thanks for your thoughts.
xxx Deborah

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31 replies

Latest reply was from Deborah

Hil

(website)

Veteran

Deb - I am going through some similar stuff with my Master 10 (with reference to the texting story) and quite frankly I just want to cry. I am having a meeting with the school this afternoon as I feel I need to alert them to some things and I also feel like I need a bit of guidance because this whole tween sex ed thing is very new to me.

Claudia

Veteran

I can't remember if it was my son or daughter that had this happen to them in their first week of elementary school (age 5 or 6), maybe it was even the first day on the bus with the older kids. My child came home that day and later in the evening at bedtime asked me if what they were told was true (most of it was but some was not). I was unhappy to be having to answer such a question at such a young age and had to be careful not to show my internal reaction, but like you I believed that if they were old enough to ask the question that I needed to answer the best I could for their age and level of understanding. I left it off with that I would always be there to discuss anything else they heard or if they had any questions about things. We carried on as usual after that and nobody seemed the worse for it.

I chose not to approach the school or the parents of the older child (neighbors) for several reasons, and to me this felt like the right thing to do in our situation. In a nutshell, I didn't want to create any shame or trouble for that family or child, or make my kid feel like they had opened a can of worms and have any regrets over speaking with me.

We often long for the "good old days" before hurried childhoods, the internet and cable TV, but if our kids grew up on farms (the barn yard instead of the school yard), they'd be exposed to live sex, death, injury and illness, etc from a VERY early age. It is all about how we handle things as role models and guides, how we discuss things with our child and frame them in their proper context. No simple answer, but to freak out and create guilt (not that this is what is happening) would be not how to handle it in my humble opinion.

BTW, my best friend is a kindergarten teacher at an exclusive private, church based school, she has told me that she is often a bit shocked and surprised with the personal information about their parents, etc., that her students come into school with and openly and innocently share and discuss.

Archer

Veteran

Whoa Deb.
Two things to sleep on:
-helping your child through the minefield that is adolescence - and the rest, with them getting the idea that sex is fraught secrets etc.
-wading into the issue with other families and school at this point, on an issue like this.
Just think about the timing of him telling you the story. Do you really think this is the first time he has heard something that he finds offensive at school......regardless of the ethos of the school or what each child knows is wrong or right?

Maybe he wanted a way to bring up the topic because he is ready for the conversation and you have chosen your moment well. However, he will have all sorts of snippets and half truths that he has heard and he is now ready to get the story straight.

Second point to mull on a bit longer I think: Are you even certain, for sure 100% the other child said it?

If you get your head around the idea that after they go to school you cease to be their only influence and increasingly less of one, so its good to get straight how you deal with ethical conflict (or whatever).

This is not to mention...how he feels about his mother's intervention in his first foray into a school story about sex and now someone else is else is in trouble.....

Just ponder on it (for a bit) is my strong advice.
Archer

Astrid

Veteran

I agree with Archer. I think the best thing you can do is to educate him so that he knows what it's all about and can evaluate comments he hears in school himself. Also, didn't he already have some sexual health and information classes at his age? Here it's standard to have it in the third year at primary school, I think? And it doesn't matter if it's a Christian school or not.

My parents educated me before I entered school when my mum was pregnant with my brother and I think it was good to have the right information beforehand. They did the same with my brothers and sister. They used a comic book about sex and pregnancy geared toward children, realistic and well written. I always felt more in the know than most of the children in my peer group and in this case you can't have too much information IMO. I am glad we were fairly well informed through our educational system, although I think there's still a lot of room for improvement. Even educational books don't use the right terminology for example, they never talk about the 'vulva' (which bothers me as a feminist).

I'm Protestant by the way and went to an all girls Christian school for nine years.

Ornella

(website)

Veteran

Deborah, I'll be watching this thread with great interest.

In the meantime I just wanted to share I find Steve Biddulph's coverage of the subject in his book "Raising Boys" fantastic. I definitely plan to reread it a few more times and discuss with Mr. O how to adapt the recommended technique to our situation when it becomes relevant.

Aquamarine

Veteran

I have been through this and now my kids are older so I have some perspective. In my personal opinion you cannot control what other kids say or do, but you can keep the conversation open with your son and equip him on how to handle the various scenarios that will happen as they leave innocence behind. I did complain a few times about similar things that my oldest (a girl) had to hear at that age, but learned quickly that it was a losing battle (you will NEVER be able to control everything your son sees or hears from rotten kids :-)) so take the opportunity to impress on him your values and words you consider appropriate in discussing reproduction/human sexuality. It does get easier and you will be modeling mature behavior and language that will eventually offset what your son hears from his peers.

anne

Veteran

Deb. I feel for you. I too want to be the one educating my kids on these issues.

But... I am a bit surprised if he hadn't heard anything by the time he was 10. Both DH and I wore told the facts of life by other kids, before our parents got there - I was 5. So I was determined to tell my kids fairly young to get in first (5 and 7 so far) I have impressed it on them that this is not something to talk to other kids about, that their parents should tell them, and if a child brings it up to suggest they talk to their parents.

I read your post earlier, and also recoiled somewhat at the idea of talking to the school. I couldn't work out why, but I think archer had some good points.

ironkurtin

Veteran

Deb, I have to agree with the others that although you have chosen a school with a distinct value set, there is no way to control the words and actions of other children. Your son will constantly be running up against people who do not share your views or outlook, even in the most carefully selected environment. So, I think your best option is with your son, not with the school. There is probably a reason he shared this story, so I'd focus on what bothered him about it and not on the school's ability to control what children say to each other.

Isabel

Veteran

Hi Deb, I also agree with the others that talking to the school is probably not going to help.

I have come to believe that moments like these are a chance for us to teach our children how to behave. They can control themselves, but not others. There will be many situations where he will hear things or be prompted to do things that are against your core values. He should learn how to handle them. That is my goal for my son, who is 12. It is very difficult for adults to be able to do it, but hopefully if children practice as they grow, they will be able to either remover themselves from these situations or not participate in them.

When my son overheard something that bothered him, I told him that he did the right thing coming to me so that we could talk. We also talked about the other child's behavior and how it is expected that he wouldn't behave that way. And I use the word "indecent" a lot. Not just for phyical things, but for character things. " That isn't the decent thing to do...and I want you to be decent. "

Anyway. They will all grow to be good men. The moms here sure are impressive.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

It's always upsetting when our children are exposed to crude language and ideas. And worrisome when they may be getting false information. But it's great that Master 10 felt safe in talking to you -- and I think, more than anything, you want to preserve that trust. You have been a good mum to him and he knows it.

Like the others, I'd be wary of going to the school with this -- at least if your intent is to complain about the other child or ask for some disciplinary measures. It puts your son in an awkward position, plus, I don't think you can control what the girl in question says or does.

It might be useful to chat with the teacher in a more general way and mention that you have concerns about how this information is being shared between kids -- especially if the school has not done any explicit teaching. Perhaps they need to re-evaluate how they handle this at the school level.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

FWIW, and I don't have kids, I would leave it alone. It's part of life, and learning things on the playground prepares you for life.

When you have big brothers, they tell you all about the birds and bees when you're little. I was one of those girls who knew at age 7 or 8 because my 5 year older brother told me everything. Although I didn't really understand it, I blurted it out to my own friends the next day. There was no swearing because I never swear. Still don't today. Perhaps my friends mothers were horrified. I don't know. My friends and I giggled up a storm and that was that. It was what it was and life goes on.

Debs, I bet Master 10 has got great judgement already because of the way you and DH have brought him up. He's probably wiser and stronger than you think - thanks to your role modeling and guidance.

Anonymous

I'm watching this thread too, with interest. DS is 10 in a few weeks and hasn't had sex education lessons yet. In personal development class, I think they address it sometime early next year. I don't think he has any ideas yet about what it's all about and he has never asked me. We are pretty open, but I have never spoken about aspects of sex, though if asked I would try to answer tactfully and honestly.

Like Angie, I am not a swearer either, and I hate the F word. DS has heard swear words but knows that just because you hear it doesn't mean you have to repeat it.

I think I agree with others who have said maybe to not go through the school and to just carry on guiding your own son and helping him to be a decent human being, like yourself. Good luck.

Echo

Veteran

I would not contact the school. While it is frustrating for parents, it is part of life, and one cannot put a child on ANY school bus (especially with mixed grades) and not expect them to hear things we would rather they did not.

Think long-term, and the fact that your DS came to you is a good thing. Don't do anything to stop that because the questions between now and middle school will start coming more and more often. It is great that he felt he could come to you to ask, and a lot of kids don't have that type of communication with their parents.

My DS13 started coming to me in 6th and 7th grade after hearing the most inappropriate things at school. Honestly, it made me worry where the other kid (it was one in particular who was the culprit) had seen and heard such things. But DS could depend on me to TELL HIM and not to sugar-coat it. No matter what the question was, I answered him honestly and then reassured him that these things were NOT common for kids his age to know, and that they would not be anything he needed to think about for many years.

Because there is a girl he likes and spends a lot of time with, I also put it right out there that most kids his age are not doing what that kid was talking about. I told him it was normal to be friends with a girl for a long time - just like he was - and not do anything more than talk and dance at school dances. And yes, I also told him the risks of engaging in such activities before one is ready (DS is very family oriented, and it is most distressing for him to learn that a person could have a child and not be immediately involved in that child's life or live in a separate home from them).

DS still, in 8th grade, talks to me about the things he hears and the things he is thinking about. I've told him flat-out that when and if he thinks he is ready take any relationship past a friendship that we need to have a talk and that I will make sure he is prepared in all ways. Of course, I hope that will be when he is 30, but...

rachylou

Veteran

I agree with Claudia and Archer et. al.

But I would still perhaps mention it to the teacher. Casually. No follow up. No conferences. I used to volunteer at DD's school and this was possible. If it's not possible, you are not ever at the school like that and can't do casual, then I would let it go. Your main line of defense, and really the source of your son's education, is you. Your values as stated and demonstrated. Everything always starts and ends in the home.

Haha. I'm pretty dogmatic about that belief, about the home.

I'd mention it, btw, because your son is at a religious school, which I presume means it's not just where he goes to learn the 3 R's. This is your community, your neighborhood, your tribe - and there's a tight code of conduct to adhere to.

Deborah

Veteran

Thanks so much for your collective wisdom ladies. I should just clarify I would t be making a complaint or requesting any disciplinary action. It's more a matter of wanting the teacher to be aware. She and I have a very good relationship btw. Our school is very good with raising things in a generic way in the classroom and encouraging student discussion. I'm not suggesting a sex education discussion but maybe something about respect and sharing information (for example).

When I was at school, we did sex education in Grade 4 and again in Grade 6. I have been meaning to ask the school what and if they do similar but it doesn't look like it. Master 10 is not completely clueless, but he doesn't have siblings so that scenario doesn't exist for us. I think it was more about how it was presented to him on the bus.

From 3 onward we started to teach him about certain things via a fabulous book called "Everyone Has A Bottom" in order for him to understand what is appropriate in terms of other people and our bodies (the book is designed to help protect kids from sexual abuse). So again, he does have a reasonable amount of knowledge.

The good thing is he is a very open little boy and always talks to us about things from playing Minecraft to personal matters, and we really nurture this.
My goal with my son is to be the one(s) that lay the foundation for the important things in life and I do believe we have done this.

Thanks again and I will sit now and re-read your responses as I formulate the next step.

xxxDeboran

Archer

Veteran

Steve Biddulph's books are great, also Celia Leskie 'He will be all right'.

Why these two authors are good is the plain speak and the understanding of how fraught it is for us as mothers of boys, especially when we know what a responsibility it is for us to do a good jobs with our boys so that they can be 'good men'.

Personal story: My boy is 14 - a bit of a different kettle of fish to lots of boys (and both his big sisters)at his age and seems to be one step ahead of the pack in spotting what is just 'not savoury' in all things - but a complete risk taker if he thinks it meets his own standards. i.e. the current space is that those people who swear all the time have a limited vocabulary but,

'Mum, sometime it is the exact word that completes the poetry of the sentence.' I think, he thinks that I will accept that one because he has justified himself in an intellectual way. He is a 'watch this space kid' - (offered without maternal bias- mmm)

IME - they are always working you with their' random offerings' whilst they are putting together their own world view. SB talks about this phenomena and where the word of the father is critical and timely... more pressure on parents.
Biddulph and Laskie's books - deal well with the parent's headspaces.
But aren't they gorgeous!

catgirl

Veteran

Don't get me started on what they hear at school. I wouldn't report it, though - it's only the beginning of what he is likely to experience and talking to him is a wonderful teaching moment for you both.

DS (10) and I did have a conversation recently related to a child we know who has two moms, and how that could be. It is bound to happen that new and complex questions will come up, though - just like earlier conversations about whether Santa is real and other mysteries of childhood. I like to let DS know as much as he wants to ask as things come up and feel glad he tells me anything!

DonnaF

Veteran

Girls, at least in the U.S., are physically maturing at younger and younger ages. Many reach menarche by age 7. Thus, I am not surprised he heard such talk at the age of 10 which I would suspect is the average age for such things. Kids with older siblings often hear or see stuff that they pass on.

My denomination has sexuality curricula for kids of various ages and is supposed to be taught by adults who aren't any of the students' parents so that the kids feel more free to ask questions (which they do on slips of paper anonymously). If the parent(s) feel they can buy into what is taught and it works into the family schedule, they can send their kids. Worked for me!

deb

Veteran

Is he in the 4th grade? That seems to be the age when discussions amongst the kids start. My cousin started her period when she was 10 and that was 50 years ago. I do not know about the boys, but girls talk about the birds and the bees and more at that age.

Irene

Veteran

Children will ALWAYS talk more than they should, because they don't know what they are supposed to shut up about. I can't recall sex conversations, but I do know there was one day one of my classmates came to me and told me Santa didn't exist. So what. She knew before I did, and she considered she should share the knowledge with her peers.

Yous kid is going to hear so, so, so many things that are not true in life. He's going to listen to teenagers rave about sex they don't even practice (but they will assure him they do, and he might feel bad that he's missing out on that). He will hear about the weirdest stories, possibly fake pregnancy scares (we went through that one in my class), stupid rumors about who did what and who did it with who, and how they did it, and where. He might even participate in those rumors, and it doesn't really matter how well you and your hubby educated him. It's highschool. It's the weak and the strong. And it doesn't matter which one you are, it sucks either way.

Children at that age are just very, very curious, and their thinking process grows as fast as their bodies. A couple of years ago I was teaching a group of very nice ten year-old kids. They discussed death while they were doing the activities. From the many, many topics they could have chosen to talk about, they picked death. And they had discussed what would happen if, would they like to be incinerated, etc, with their older siblings. And they were only ten!

I guess you could shut this little girl up, but right after you do two more kids are going to do the same thing. It's an unstoppable process, really. Just like swearing. You have to do your best not to swear in front of your children to give a good example, so that it feels wrong to swear, but your children are going to end up swearing anyways.

Anonymous

My take has always been twofold. I never criticize, judge or try to parent someone else's child. You never know the other side of the story. Also, my grandma used to say that you must show other children the same compassion, you expect your child to receive. I find that so true. So, in my take, the little girl is just being that, a kid. Perhaps if you see it that way, you would be less upset about it. Also, when I address situations my child brings forth, I try to concentrate on her and her alone. I feel that bringing the issue up in school can lead to embarrasment for both your son and the girl in question. I would not do it. That would not solve or undo anything and even if she gets "quieted down", there would be another little girl in the bus story, I promise you that.

In NYC, the school system has sex ed since middle school, which is language and context appropiate. I never opted out of it for my child, because I felt it was a safe environment. I think she was about 10 when the questions started. I am sorry you are upset about it and with reason, but I find that as my daughter got older, it was harder to control who, what and how she was getting information. You just "gotta roll with the punches" and try your hardest to provide the best guidance along the way.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

I agree with Zap and Archer and the others. Kids learn all kinds of things on the bus, in the school yard, lunch room, etc. Parents cannot control what other kids tell their children -- we can only keep the lines of communication and honesty open so that our children can come to us with questions.

As a stepparent, I can tell you it's not only other kids that children hear upsetting or confusing things from, about a whole host of topics. Adults can be just as bad.

rachylou

Veteran

I suppose it's worth mentioning that one's own kid is probably out there saying crazy things. I remember when DD said to me that *her* generation's music was rap. And I had to tell her, *Darling, I hate to break this to you, but rap came with my generation and we're the ones peddling it to you.*

Yes yes. Rap sucks. But let me suggest to you MC Lars: Hot Topic is not punk rock!

Tell me that's not brilliant (!)

Lyn D.

Veteran

Great feedback here for you Deborah!
When my eldest was in prep. a friend came to out house and wrote F### on the cubby-house blackboard. We did not say anything to the parents, but of course at the time it lead to a serious discussion about swearing.

The girls hear and read it everywhere of course, but they know that it is unacceptable in our family, and the incident became one of many catalysts for discussion over the years.
Life and learning!

elpgal

Veteran

Lyn, I know I am being bad but that story makes me LOL.

Lantana

Veteran

Deborah, I am an ex-teacher who taught in state and private systems across the country. In the situation you describe, if I were your son's teacher I would appreciate being put in the picture.

Nicole D

Veteran

I agree with others who advise to let it go, but focus on keeping the communication about sex open with your son.
I had the mechanics of sex talk just yesterday with my youngest (6 yr old daughter). She came into he room with a beach ball under her sweater and pretended to be pregnant. So I asked her if she knew how babies were made and she said:"No. Should I?" So we had the talk. Six was the age to describe the mechanics for all my kids, mostly so that they have the facts before they hear something incorrect. I find the littler the kids are, the more easily they accept it. Way less awkward and then you can add details as they get older.

greycat6

Veteran

I just had to chime in with a similar story about my then 7 year old (now 11).

He came home from school to tell us about the television program his school mate had watched regarding how boys can have an operation to make them into girls. He proceeded to tell us, in great detail, about how such operations take place, which body parts change and that they wear different underwear afterwards and on and on. We talked more about it and answered his questions as best we could......and we NEVER had that child over for a play date again!

Deborah

Veteran

Greycat6, thanks for sharing:) That's some situation:)

I appreciated everyone's thoughts so felt I should check back and let you know what I did:)

One of my girlfriend's is a teacher at the school and I shared with her over the weekend. She immediately advised me to speak to either the class teacher or the principal. She felt it was important that they were made aware. There is a pastoral care issue here in relation to the little girl. I spoke to to the Principal, who in turn discussed it the teacher and during the week the class had a discussion about being aware that not all information is to be shared and how to make decisions about what is ok to share and what is not.

I'm happy with the outcome:)

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