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The quality question

Helena

Veteran

Hi there, I know this theme has been touched on many times before, but it came to mind again re: the good quality clothing article in the link love section. . It's that whole issue of - one the one hand, designers will tell us the importance of investing in good quality pieces that will stand the test of time, and on the other hand, the fashion cycle is so short that even "classics" need to be updated with fairly great frequency in order to be current.

To be clear, those that enjoy and are able to invest in the best quality pieces - by all means! The look more beautiful and no doubt do last. However, for those of us on tighter budgets - what to do? I know personally I've invested in a few "classics" that really did not stand a great test of time, as some details on them ended up dating them within a few years of purchase, despite their good condition.

Budget-divas in particular - how do you find you balance?

General

38 replies

Latest reply was from viva

unfrumped

Veteran

I haven't got this figured out!
There's overtly poor quality--and pretty good stuff for the same( sakes& such) or not much more. So that's one thing.
Then there are design and construction elements that I sometimes find , that just make me happy, that give better fit, drape, durability. The " love". Yet as you say, it might still not have as much longevity as you'd think, for the price.
That's where I'm trying to watch total numbers. It's not just fewer, better quality thinking it will last 10+ years.
It's the overall trade -off--you can get things you really love but you can't get EVERYTHING.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Yeah, it's tricky. I know I've told this story here before, but my best friend as a teenager had a mom who was a middle school teacher, and her mom saved up and bought a new wool suit from Pendleton every year, and that's all she wore (with blouses) to work, every day, for her entire teaching career. Could you pull that off now without looking like you were utterly out of touch? (Also a very gendered issue, cf that recent story about the male Australian tv host who wore the same suit on air every workday for a year and nobody said anything about it.)

I'm not sure that most of us really need long lived classics anymore. Unless you have a business formal dress code at your office, you'll be fine spending less, and the less formal an item is the more it seems subject to fashion trends.

Since I had to replace most of my wardrobe two years ago due to weight loss, I've been thinking about future budgeting and plans and how long items can be expected to last, quality wise, and look reasonably current, fashion wise. Right now I am aiming for a 3-4 year cycle, acknowledging that some things will last longer and some shorter. In some ways that seems pretty long, but in some ways it seems rather short, especially compared to how long people used to wear clothes, historically, until our recent time period of capitalist excess and cheap foreign labor and raw materials.

retailgirl

Veteran

This is a tough one! I love nice things, and as a former home sewer and the daughter of one, I have learned to appreciate good construction and quality fabrics. Plus, my style aesthetic is classic. But, I have found that even the most classic items have about a five year shelf life. ( maybe the fact
that I work in retail has shortened that span...I might have a more forgiving eye if I worked in another sphere.). So...I think the best way to approach this is, first, know what works for you, no matter what's in style...straight leg pants v. a wide leg, 1,2 or 3 button blazer, turtlenecks, etc., some of these things will have a longer shelf life. Shop end of season or watch things you like on line until they come into your price range. Buy less, but buy better. Update and make your look more current with accessories. Don't feel like you have to have the latest thing, unless it really works for you.

Anonymous

I used to wear quality classics when I worked in an industry where that was required.

Nowadays I work in a casual office, and have fussy feet that demand quality footwear that's comfortable, so I spend more on that. For the most part, my clothing costs less and gets replaced more often. I have no need for suits and such. I'm concerned with getting colorfast items that hold up well to frequent wash and wear, and I don't care if they last 10+ years.

Accessories need to be very good quality, as I believe that they along with my footwear upgrade my outfits. In short, I spend more $ on what gets heavy use and a lot less on things I don't wear that often.

Having said all that, I believe it's important to know how to buy quality clothing, and to know that paying more doesn't guarantee better quality. It's generally true, but not always. Know your measurements and seek out quality brands that fit you. Lastly, try to take advantage of sales whenever possible.

Jules

Veteran

My needs are pretty casual as well and my budget is not high-end. For a long time I doubted quality was a really a factor in the lower end (ie Joe vs the gap - does twice the price equal equally better quality? I'm not convinced). However I am recently exploring local (Toronto) designers, paying somewhat more for stuff that is better designed and better made. And I'm liking it... The problem with fast fashion for me was that I wasn't picky enough because I basically saw items as short-term.

Anonymous

I don't see things as really short term; just not 10+ years like before... more like 3-5 years.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I think Angie gives really good advice about this when she talks about buying for your real life.

The connection might not be obvious at first, but here's how I see it.

If aiming to "invest," the way to go is with iconic fashion items -- but only if these icons make sense within your real life.

Examples: If you are working in a law office and need to wear a well-tailored suit several days a week, you probably have a good grasp on what is current and good quality in tailored suiting. And if you don't, you need to look around, talk to people and figure it out. Once you find "your" high quality suit, you will wear the heck out of it for at least three years, maybe even a bit longer. And that is a lot of wears; it will earn its cost. Especially if you love it. If it lasts longer, wonderful!

Meanwhile, if you are a stay at home parent, you probably wear jeans a lot. So forget the cheap jeans. Or at least supplement them with a pair or two of premium jeans. Buy the best fitting, happiest pair you can afford in a current cut. And wear the heck out of them! Three or five years is a pretty long cycle for a pair of jeans. If you are really lucky, they will last longer.

Other potentially iconic purchases:

The trench coat (Burberry?)
The navy blazer
The leather moto

Etc. But this is climate and lifestyle dependant. No point in buying that trench if you live in the arctic or the desert. You don't need the cashmere scarf if you live in Hawaii. That's why those "10 items every woman needs" lists are ridiculous. We all have different needs. Sometimes people pay a lot for an item they rarely wear -- and guilt ensues. If you wear something a great deal, there's no need to feel badly if you need to "retire" it after three years or five years.

I also think it is worthy paying more for any item that looks unbelievably great on you and makes you feel magically like "yourself."

You know. The kind of thing you try on and don't even have a moment's hesitation about. You want to wear it NOW. The tags are off!

Even if the cut isn't the most current a year or two from now, you will probably be able to bring it up to date with the way you style it, and you will still look fantastic.

For some, this will be related to figure flattery. For others, it will be more dependent on how well the item expresses a certain style persona.

There are also wild card items -- arty or avant gard or vintage pieces that have so much character they will stand the test of time and mix into a wardrobe of modern classics (if that is your core style). If the fit and quality is high on those pieces, they might live in your wardrobe for decades.

Dimity

I have found that the store brands (in Australia, these can be Regatta for Myer and David Jones' own brand) can offer solid quality for the price. They aren't cutting edge though, so are really only useful for classic items. I steer clear of fast fashion. It doesn't last, the fabrics are usually awful and it's a poor use of people's time and the planet's resources. Anything above that is a possibility in my view, but rather than being able to rely on designer brands for quality, I find that each item has to be viewed individually. Are the seams well manufactured? Is the fabric comfortable and does it look as though it will wash? Are threads clipped etc?
As far as longevity goes, I have a black wool sweater that my Mum gave me that must be thirty years old yet looks brand new. It has never pilled or shrunk. That's probably my oldest item, but I have several things, like grey lined wool Eddie Bauer trousers that are over ten years old and are still current (straight leg, flat front, oxford grey cloth) and a grey wool A line Gap skirt that's about the same era. Of course, though, I've donated scores of items in this same time period that didn't make the cut after a season or two. I suppose what I'm suggesting is that mid-range brands can offer good quality classics for the price.

Beth Ann

Veteran

TGo m, I'm dealing with the reality that, even if income increases in the next few years, the family expenses are going to go up, too (with two kids at 12 and 13). I will need to make the most of every dollar.

Like several other posters, I think in terms of 3-5 year cycles on average. Knits sometimes only last 2 years, pants and jackets may last more than 5. As a sometimes sewer, I've learned to look at the fabric first --- how it feels and moves in the hand and on the body often (but not always) gives a clue as to how it will wear. Construction is second -- seam allowances, hemming, buttonholes, pattern matching -- all these speak to the construction quality.

I'm finding that quality is not directly linked to price -- I sometimes find better fabric and construction at Kohl's than Gap, for example, but the styling is often not as up to date. I've learned to be wary of fibers that are too thin, or too soft -- a problem in many "boutique" quality items.

I am buying less fast fashion, and am making an effort to watch for a throwaway mentality. I'm mostly successful, except with tops and sweaters. I seem to purchase these as "pick me ups", and I need to be more strategic.

Anonymous

I think, too, that browsing the better stores will give you a good base for comparison. For example, I purchased a few good-quality sweaters from Lands End this year. While in Target with my DDs yesterday, we briefly looked through the clothing, but there was nothing there I wanted to even think about bringing home--except the scoop neck tanks on clearance. The difference in quality is readily apparent. Determining which items you're willing to spend more on and which you don't mind spending less on is a vital step in being able to have the wardrobe you want without breaking the bank.

Helena

Veteran

This is a terrific thread ... Great balanced advice here. Thx so much all!!

gryffin

Veteran

TG - this is such a balance and I think it's also about finding the exact right pieces. I was looking for black and gray jeans - loose skinnies but narrow ankles with a midrise - you know the EA look - but it's very me. Well I found those jeans at Gap on sale for under $40 each. Such a great price point, I've already duplicated. OTOH I'm a blazer girl in my real life. I bought the most expensive jacket I've ever purchased. The HL Gala Tux jacket. I never appreciated the difference in quality tailoring - how the jacket fits plumb, how the neck is so craftily constructed it gives me Audrey Hepburn's swan neck. How the seam construction, placement of the points, width of the sleeves makes me appear taller and infinityly more elegant. Yes, it's cropped but no overly so, it's unembellished, has interesting detail on the back but don't think it screams any time period, 3.5 seasons weight and it looks great on. Knowing myself, that will last a good 20 years maybe more. But you have to love your investment, independent of what's "on trend." If you want to be "in style" than honestly you are best off looking at good quality supporting pieces, a couple of good pieces/workhorses that make any outfit better - what you wear in real life be it blazers, cardis, vests, dresses, trousers - you know for the nice capsule and then some fun or statement pieces that give on the pizzaz of being on trend knowing they will be evanescent. You need to assess, on the time and quailty line, what makes sense for your individual needs. There is no wrong, only whats right for you!!

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unfrumped

Veteran

What bettycrocker and gryffin said.

Fit, fit, fit. The beneFIT of looking around is in part to find brands that " get you" in fit, and then in aesthetic.
It give you a compass. You might target that actual item or brand, perhaps on sale or in discount store of consignmetnt, or you might find the best iteration at a good price point.

In thinking about longevity, pencil skirts come to mind. It's so much about the fit that there is not as much room for trendiness. Yes, there is length, but even that has a rather enduring sweet spot ( especially if dark tights are part of seasonal wear). Then it's more the top style and footwear that depict the current " fashion".
In general I have mostly gotten good bargains on skirts, because AT fits me better than most designer brands. So they have very low CPW. OTOH, Yoanna Baraschi does, too! ( fit). I splurged on a couple of those that just made me happy, even though one is actually not everday wear but I can dress up or down, and so far I think they are the type of item I can bring out from time to time and mix with cashmere or denim, loafers or heels, sweatshirt or novelty T, because hey, it's just a pencil skirt.
As Suz said, this has implications for one's life- reality, because I find it harder to find actual dresses, for church, weddings, date nights, but am now learning that the morphed skirt outfit lets me get more use out of the skirts and perhaps be a sort of signature style.

E

Veteran

TG, my solution to quality on a budget is to shop secondhand. B&M thrift stores are cheapest of course but more hit & miss. Ebay is a great option if you're looking for specifics: you can use all of their filters to narrow it down to just what you want and then save the search. To ensure a good fit, I ask for several key measurements and then compare those measurements to an item already in my wardrobe whose fit I love. And I mainly stick to brands I already know the fit/quality of, to lesson the risk (also I almost never buy trousers off ebay as there are so many complicated fit questions for them).

If I suddenly couldn't shop secondhand, I think I'd opt for a very small collection of good quality clothes. Since I'd have so few, they'd get worn on a very frequent basis, and probably wear out by the time they felt dated, thus solving that issue in a different way.

Of course, my personal style has a strong vintage aspect to it, which I suspect insulates me more from worries about dated clothing. I can understand why it's a dilemma though, with the pace that fashion moves at! I always get a bit concerned when quirky things I love suddenly become trendy (like peplums or round collars), because then they're more likely to look passe a few years down the road. But luckily my life situation doesn't require me to look sartorially up to the minute.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I echo what Suz said.

ANY item that makes you feel magical and suits your lifestyle is worth the investment.

Two more points:

These pieces NEEDN'T be modern classics.

Budgets are relative. Investing means $100 for some, and $1000 for others.

It is unfortunate also these days, that a higher price point is no longer a guarantee for superior quality. It does muddy the waters and make things quite a bit trickier. But I would say though, that generally, a higher price point is better-end quality.

Runcarla

Veteran

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm doing some end of year pondering, and investing in quality is a goal. My issue isn't so much about spending money on quantity vs quality, but spending the money. Period. I still struggle with doubt (about my style, fit, etc.) over an item, and niggling feelings of worthiness.

Being a minimalist and a budget fashionista results in pretty fast wardrobe turnover--fewer things get worn a lot, and thus worn out more quickly. Also, if I can't find the perfect thing at a price point I'm willing to pay, I go without. This can sometimes lead to frustration due to a hole in my closet. Currently I am dealing with a couple of big holes: no black pencil skirt, no trench coat. And, I never found a winter white skirt, or a bright coloured winter coat (I wanted mustard yellow.)

And though I have experienced the frustration that Angie points out, of paying a high price for an item, only to have it fail me, I have also experienced the joy of the 'magical' item.

To answer your question, as a budget conscious shopper I shop the sale racks at high end smaller boutiques for hidden gems, and regularly troll Winners, and Marshall's. I did very well at Winner's one year, scoring some deeply discounted designer items after a runway show.

I will be following this thread,

kkards

Veteran

TG, everyone's given you great advice. As others have mentioned, price is not necessarily an indication of quality, so I recommend shopping at high and low end stores, and touch and inspect everything. Then you'll get a sense of what quality is,and you'll be better able to decide what it's worth to you.
and btw, part of the reason most designer fashion is more expense is because they make less of it, if you're target, or the gap, and your making 10s of thousands of something,it's much cheaper for the factory to produce. Also, to point out the obvious,part of the reason premium denim is so expensive is because much of it's made in the US, So you may or may not be getting better quality, but you are paying for higher labor costs.

rabbit

Veteran

I generally have an idea of what I'm looking for and first try second-hand and thrift stores. If I don't find it (I'm a quick browser in a compact city), I next check Marshalls & Ross clearance sections. If that doesn't work I expand out to other clearance racks or online options. The hunt can be a big time commitment (although it's fun for me so it doubles as entertainment time) so I need to balance that out with the financial savings.

One great benefit of thrift/consignment is that if you find an item of the right cut and color getting durable natural materials is much more affordable than the equivalent of what is usually available at retail. I'm thinking about winter knitwear in particular.

I have trouble with the term 'investment' applied to clothing, because as far as I can tell it's not, it doesn't increase in value (unless it's in the realm of fine art/runway prices). It's a consumable or a necessity like a car, which loses value as soon as it leaves the lot. It has aesthetic and self-image benefits 'in the moment' but not necessarily in the far future except in rare instances. To my mind its value is all front-loaded. Which is great if it is enjoyed fully during that initial period of a few months or years of ownership commensurate to the expense.

I agree that if you are going to wear something very frequently within a relatively short period of time (several months) a higher initial price can work out well. Or if it makes you super happy to wear it on a few key occasions, it's like a great meal out, worth it for the memories alone.

ETA: also certain things - denim, leather etc. which just gain character as they age and distress are worth spending more to my mind if again they will be worn intensely.

Gaylene

Veteran

I guess I've always liked Ms. Mary's approach which is to view clothing as a CONSUMABLE, not an investment. Viewing your question through that lens, the issues become more about what kind of shelf-life do you expect from the item (for example, you might classify coats differently than knitwear), what price-point works best for your situation (are you willing to pay extra for unique, one-of-a-kind items or are you satisfied with mass-market offerings), and, most important, how do YOU define quality. Are you looking for items that will up to frequent laundering? Fine fabrics and labor-intensive construction methods? Items with high brand recognition? Unique, fashion-forward design? Durable basic designs that don't date quickly? Items that can be tailored for an impeccable fit?

It seems to me once you figure out your answers to some of those questions, you are in a much better position to determine what kind of "quality" items you might want to incorporate into your wardrobe and what price makes the most sense to you.

ETA: I just saw that rabbit also made the point about treating clothing as a consumable, not an investment. I actually think the whole investment idea muddies the waters when it comes to clothing budgets. Some of my priciest mistakes have come from convincing myself something was worth spending $$$ because it would be an "investment". Guilt-inducing, soon-to-be orphan, splurge would have been closer to the mark.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

YES. Rabbit and Gaylene are right. "Investment" is not the best word for what we are describing here because consumables lose their value most of the time. It's just a catch phrase that the industry uses because it makes the point clear, if you know what I mean.

You have to weigh up the price of an item with the role of it in your life. Is it worth it because of: the fit, quality, shopping experience, cut, colour, silhouette, fabric, brand, place off manufacture, or washing instructions? And then - ask yourself - how much are you prepared to pay for it? How much of your budget are you prepared to part with for this item?

These are interesting questions, that for many - will yield very different answers.

Staysfit

Veteran

The only items in my wardrobe that have been investment pieces are my handbags. I have had some of them for over 30 years and they are still beautiful and in use. I picked classic styles, shapes and colors. I would often spend more than I could afford at the time for my handbag, knowing that my intention was to keep it and use it for an extended period. My practice in this regard has continued. Perhaps some of my cashmere sweaters will turn into investment pieces as well. I tend to prefer a simple long sleeve crew neck style. I want to mention that my mother gave my daughter all of her cashmere sweaters from her teenage years, which were well preserved, and in perfect condition. They fit my DD perfectly. They were simple in style like my crew necks.

I might place fine jewelry in some alternate category. It is definitely an investment. I intend to keep it long term, and even to pass it on to my children. I try to pick classic pieces and simple pieces that will not become dated, however, I know that any piece can be remade into something else because I have done so with some of my mothers jewelry.

On the other hand, I have yet to have any suit, pant, skirt, coat, or shoe/boot last or have that type of staying power. If a trend has returned there has been enough change that I could not re-use the previous item without looking frumpy or odd. I therefore do not purchase clothing with the idea that I am making an investment. The quality and price point I purchase have mostly to do with the limited range of stores that carry items that fit me well. There are certain stores and brands that do not work at all, so this forms one limit. The next limit is of course budget. I try not to spend so much that I cannot live the rest of my life comfortably. Clothing is definitely a consumable in my mind, so I am in agreement with Ms. Mary and Gaylene.

Anonymous

About the only thing in my wardrobe that I have worn for over 30 years are my Frye boots. I have had them resoled a few times, but they are timeless to me.

I also have a Gap moto jacket that I bought on clearance about 15 years ago that I still get huge compliments on and that has held up incredibly well.

I used to be someone who would wear my "good clothes" sparingly, but have come to the realization that clothes are meant to be worn and make you feel good instead of hidden away in a closet and eventually given away to someone who will wear it in my place. Now I try to make sure I wear everything I own as much as possible so that I reap the most enjoyment from looking my best even if I am just going for a walk with the dog.

Alassë

Veteran

I need to re-read Suz's excellent explanation in light of my lifestyle needs. Great thread!

unfrumped

Veteran

Turning the point around a bit, isn't it kind of sad that we can't do more with " older" items if of good quality and repair that still fit? That somehow instead of looking dated, it all went into the stewpot of style and everyone looked unique because our archeological layers would still set us apart ? That instead if Lara's 2 items, we could have maybe a third to half of wardrobe? Maybe some people are doing that if you count up boots, leather jackets, trench, overcoat, handbags, watch, some sweaters and then have a couple dozen other items that turn over.

Anonymous

Already commented, in my usual useless manner but chiming back in to say how much I appreciate this thread. I really "get" what rabbit and gaylene have said. Something here is nagging at the back of my holiday sugar-fogged brain....some insight into how and where I need to look at allocating my fashion $. Like others have said, almost nothing I own has retained any real lasting power or value, other than the Fendi bag I gave myself for my 40th birthday. Analyzing and understanding the reason for spending more money on a certain piece of clothing (and then owning that understanding ) will surely be a good use of time and brain power. For me, anyways.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

UF, there's a company in Toronto that re-makes clothes from old ones. Fun.

Thistle

Veteran

Wow, so much fab advice, I don't have much to add. For me, it's about CPW (cost per wear). What is an okay cost per wear varies from person to person, but based on this I am willing to spend more on something I wear a lot. Like my winter coat.

I am just now starting to track CPW to start to see where I am.

That said, as others note, it really is about what works for you, your lifestyle, and budget.

My weekend jeans for being a mom are worn a lot, but I found what I needed in Levi's and J-Lo brand jeans. No need for more expensive ones, and frankly, I wouldn't want jeans I worried about getting muddy or sticky.

My workday clothes get worn a bit less often, but more because I want to project a certain image, if that makes sense.

Helena

Veteran

Thank you thank you all for great points and wisdom! Gaylene, your points really resonate ... It's a bit of the rel life vs imaginary life scenario ... And for me, the comparison issue, which I KNOW is always a stupid thing to do, but I do, of course ...its a matter of focusing on what I need for my life vs. What I perceive as expected or proper. Glad others struggle with this ... The fashion cycle is just too fast!

E

Veteran

Oh I forgot to mention that I also think of good quality, pricier clothes as splurges vs investments. So if I'm going to wear it frequently enough to justify the splurge, or if it impacts my health enough (ie supportive shoes), I go for it. But it's definitely a sunk cost!

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