Well, I never really believed, because Santa never brought what I asked for when my mom took me to see Santa at the mall, lol (and I wasn't that obnoxious kid asking for ponies and yachts, either). Either Santa didn't listen very well, or someone else was giving the presents!

I clearly don't have kids but, if I did, I think talking about the historical Saint Nicholas would be a nice - and educational! - way to let someone down without taking all the good feeling away and replacing it with lies.

Jenie, Deborah, and Caro, in particular have very good points. I think that we have been telling "lies" ( technically ) in the form of myths, allegories, and fairy tales for generations and generations. It is an important part of cultures and storytelling that has survived. It makes a point, it keeps cultures and traditions alive. It can be a fine line too as Caro said.

I knew the truth about Santa by the time I was in first grade, but I don't have any memory of how I found out. I was the youngest of four kids, though, so somebody must have spilled the beans. I knew a set of twins when I was six who still believed, and I remember being surprised by them.

To add to my first comment, my kids didn't question Santa until about 9 or 10. I had heard from other parents that this was the age that they figure it out. Maybe younger is a bit too young as others have mentioned. My youngest is now 15 and we still put cookies and milk out for Santa and have stockings filled with presents from Santa. My only problem now is staying up later than a teenager fill the stockings! Lots of good suggestions here. Your heart will tell you what to do

OOO, sooo much wisdom, of course.

I'm taking it all in.

Suz... It's a story told to instil important values about giving to others. There is a difference. Thank you. I needed to hear (read) this clearly.

IK :: LOL. I always hide the gift wrap I use for his gift

It might be early, I don't know. But, since he spends his afternoons in the after school club with the kids up to 11-12 years of age, I have no idea how tactful those kids are. They may burst the bubble in a cruel way.

Some days he comes home and tells me "So-and-so says there are no super heroes. But there are, there really are. And when we grow up, B. (his best friend) and I will be superheroes."

I tell him superheroes can't fly nor do unusual things and to be super hero is actually about doing the good, nice things to other people - then you are super hero to the other person - but he prefers the concept of big cape, flying, doing some sort of magic.

My son shares a tutor group in middle school with older children. It's a new system called tiering. But I still ain't telling him, no siree. I am keeping the Christmas spirit alive just like my old Nan always did
(BTW, Ornella I'm kind of wishing you had chosen a more subtle title for this thread as I can't have 'YLF Off Topic' open on the computer screen with DS in the room... keep logging off and closing down quickly, lol!)

Rosie and Jasmine thought we were vey funny looking Santas. And funny looking dogs for that matter. xo

Totally have not read others' responses, since I don't have time, but couldn't resist replying because I had to address this issue very recently.

My daughter asked a couple of years ago if Santa was real. I said, What do you feel is real? He's the spirit of Christmas. Without Santa, there is no Christmas. (It's not a religious holiday for me; I'm an atheist).

This year, she asked again, and I know most of her friends know the truth. She was nine, approaching ten, at the time. I decided she needed the whole truth. But I still feel that Father Christmas is real, in the same way that other gods are "real". That is, they are invented by us, but for the person who believes, they do exist. And the spirit of Christmas really does exist in our collective minds, and it's important that it continues to do so, in some form or another. Santa really IS the spirit of the Christmas. He embodies a wealth of history that pre-dates Christianity and encompasses western cultural traditions. Whether you're Christian or not, midwinter is a time to pause from the craziness of life and share time with your loved ones. It is a time to give and receive, to relax, to be grateful. This idea is covered beautifully in Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather, so I read it to my daughter. The book is both funny and moving, but gets you thinking about what Christmas means. It took a couple of months to read, but when we finished, it provided a perfect starting point for a discussion.

I encourage you to read the book. It might help answer your questions. I too did not like the idea of lying to my child, but Santa is part of the magic of childhood, and The Hogfather gives very good reasons why it's important to nurture that early belief. Again, it's not a religious thing for me -- it's about our very humanity. We invent small lies like Father Christmas so that when it comes time to believe the big ones -- justice, mercy, compassion etc, the things that make humans unique -- children have an idea of how it works. We can't be human without believing in those things, even though they are merely concepts we invent and maintain.

Note: the book is totally inappropriate for a six-year-old, so even if you do read it, I don't think you would want to read it to him. But you can still glean some ideas.

I will say that being a little more loosey-goosey with the Santa thing would have come in handy the year that The Must Have Toy was unobtainable. I managed to get one (via a corrupt Toys R Us employee in the pre-internet world), but it took years off my life, and I devoutly wished that I hadn't made such a huge deal about Santa being a real third party gift giver! The "nudge nudge, wink wink" attitude started immediately thereafter!

Like Carter, I never had THAT conversation with my kids, and they are 24 and 21! We aren't real religious, but we did tie the Christmas story into the gift giving by explaining to the boys that they shouldn't expect more than 3 gifts from SC since Jesus got 3 gifts on his birthday/Christmas (from the wise men).

'Santa' usually brought 1 big gift (like MaryK said...The Must Have Toy) some batteries, and a Terry's chocolate orange. Different wrapping paper, too!

I cant remember if it was last year or the year before that my son (the oldest kid in the family) figured out the truth, with a little help from a school friend. He turned 10 this year.

Once the doubt crept in, I also went the "what do you think" route. Eventually, I explained that it was a story of magic and fun, and that now that he had figured out the secret (because he was now a big kid - I turned it into a bit of a rite of passage thing) it was his job to help keep it a secret from his little sister and cousins.

We had lots of nudge, nudge, wink, wink moments with him as we started talking about wishlists and letters to Santa. He takes great delight in reaffirming that Santa does exist for the little ones.

Truly, his biggest concern when the truth was out, was did this mean he would no longer get any presents. He also made me laugh because when I suggested that they write their letters to Santa, they had to stick items in from the categories of "Something you want, Something you need, Something to wear and Something to read" and he asked me how rich Santa was feeling this year, so that he could list items accordingly.

I can't really help you, but I have been reflecting on this a lot. We don't "do" Santa at our house and neither DH and I grew up with it. For us as Christians celebrating the birth of Jesus, as God choosing to come down and live in a humble human life, is exciting enough. And yes I felt that it was important not to confuse what we think is the truth (not necessarily to do with the time of the year) with something I would later say I wasn't true. I never felt I was missing out on anything and I checked with DD10 yesterday and she doesn't feel she missed out either. (We do give presents!)

That said, of course a lot of Christians, including some in this thread, do differently. If we did, I think the only way I could do it would be a kind of "lets' pretend" way. We pretend there is a tooth fairy but they all know it is me. I remember reading "the night before Christmas" as a child so we were not cut off from the general idea.

The other thing we have done is talk about the historical Saint Nicholas and I think like Beth Ann, that Ornella that could be a way forward to talking to your son.

I don't think my children have been cruel to other children about this, but one Mum did ask me to stop DD (6 at the time) to stop talking to her child about it, which I asked her to. Because though I feel strongly enough about this to have brought them up this way, I don't particularly want them bothering others. So I have told them if someone asks them "what do you want Santa to bring" to answer "for Christmas I would like X" since the intent of the question is obvious". Maybe I should tell them to say the same thing as I want them to say to their friends if the topic of sex come up "this is something to talk about with your parents!"!

My now 9 year old is on the same cusp. A few years ago a lovely little darling at school told her that "Santa is your parents." She came home very upset. I asked her what she thought about what her friend said. Her reply was, "Like your parents would do all THAT!!!" (My husband and I are still laughing about that one.)

I think she knows, or at least strongly suspects, based on things she has said, but we're letting her believe until she brings it up directly. I think my brother and I held on at that point for a few years -- "Well, we know it must be mom and dad, but we better not say anything just in case we blow it, and maybe it is real..."

I also have much older children (23 and 20) and they have always supported the beliefs of younger ones. Seeing the magic through the eyes of an awestruck child is too magical to pass up. I think they came to it slowly and got used to the idea before they let me know they knew. Neither of them remembers a traumatic "Santa was ruined!" moment.

When your son is ready to move on, he'll let you know.

I think that from the very beginning, I didn't want to "lie" to him about Santa, but I didn't want to take away a huge part of his childhood Christmases. I know it's not all about Santa, but still, it's fun to think just for a little while that it's real.

As a child I always had gifts marked "from Santa" so we had proof that he listened, got our list, etc. But with my son, we never really introduced him to Santa. He has never been to a mall Santa, sat on a lap and told a list of wants. Probably when he was 5 or 6, we were watching The Polar Express, and do you know he said "So um, who is THAT guy?" LOLOL!! At that point, I realized that we ended up mentioning Santa sometimes but not in a way that implied to my son that he actually was a present giver. As well, I realized that in the past couple of years, we had never actually written "From Santa" on a Christmas gift (oops! Parenting Fail!!). As of yet, I don't know that he will be too affected one way or another, but he's 8 and doesn't seem too worried about knowing the truth. Last year, he only wants the basic details. How is this guy getting in our house and what happens if he sets off the alarm!

I'll tell you what he DOES believe in though...that darn Elf on the Shelf. He has been asking about "Elvin" for the past two months!

So many good ideas in this thread. It really comes down to the family and the particular kid. One of ours quickly ruled out the viability of the tooth fairy, while simultaneously expounding the indisputable existence of Santa. We addressed all of these traditions the same way right out of the gate. We told the stories of Santa, the tooth fairy, etc., labeling each as a story. We did not have Santa bring very many significant gifts, just a couple with his name on it. We answered questions when they were very young with "that's how the story goes", moving on to "what do you think?" and eventually discussions of what it means to have these characters with their mythology in our culture.

Many thought that our initial approach deprived our kids of the full Santa experience, but neither of them ever expressed any sense of that. It's really a question of what works for a family. We were able to talk with our just enough older kids about how meaningful this belief is to lots of little kids, hoping to avoid creating upset for others. Now that our kids are in their mid-twenties, it is clear how this kind of stuff just works itself out. I don't know any families who had a big brouhaha about Santa one way or the other, though I am sure some exist.

Well, i just wanted to update the thread with this evening's events:

• Mum, Boy1 and Boy2 said today there's no Santa.

My kids always had an answer for the kids who said there was no Santa. You see, Santa doesn't bother bringing toys to people who don't believe in him; why would he? That's why those kids don't get gifts from Santa and you do. Like I said, I still get gifts from Santa, but he leaves them at my mum's house for me. I never stopped believing. ; )

We are at the other end of this story. Miss almost 3 is now at the stage where she is starting to understand Christmas - and get excited about it, which is a lot of fun.

I think that whether you are religious or not, Christmas is some what magical, and everyone needs a little bit of magic and light in their lives. Christmas for me has always been about giving, and this is what Santa does.

I think that if he is avoiding the subject with you, then he wants to believe and I think that is nice and part of his childhood. Might be worth asking his teacher what she would say if asked?

I would stage being caught in the act of putting the gifts and then make it funny, with like a huge OMG you caught us, we are Santa! Bad idea? That's how my brother and I found out ( No acting, we caught them) and it was hilarious. We love that memory.

There will be sooo many times when you actually will have to have your son face a hard, life changing conversation. I am thinking you can make a light, funny and cute situation out of this one. I see it as some sort of a rite of passage. Make it something cute, he can then tell his children about, why not?

My daughter found out from my baby sister, jeez.

OMG, I just remembered. That's not how it went down. My brother and I actually waited after Christmas to break the news to our parents. We even played with the gifts, by carefully unwrapping some of them. Hahaha. Best memory ever.