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Tact

catherine

Veteran

One of my survival tactics is “you don’t have to attend every argument to which you are invited”, so my reaction to a post I read online surprised me. An “influencer” that I read occasionally asked and answered the question whether capris are in or out. According to her, they’re out.
I honestly don’t care what other people wear, and the level of virtual smirking, laughing, and pointing in the comments directed at women who wear capris was unsettling to me. I can’t figure out why.
They were making fun of people on tour buses wearing capris and sneakers (one was even a tour guide on the bus) and soon moved on to QVC, who evidently sells capris.
I was thinking about the YLF community and how this level of tactlessness is completely absent. Thanks to all of you and Angie for being so supportive of one another.
I think this is a bit of a rant. I’ll stop now.

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26 replies

Latest reply was from Joy

Helena

Veteran

Catherine, that's annoying!

I think there is a big difference between criticising a trend/look/style and criticising the person wearing it ... the line can be tricky but in the case you describe, it sounds like people squarely crossed it. I think it's fine to criticise clothing or outfits in a context where that is appropriate, such as a fashion discussion group where everyone is a willing participant, but it's not okay to bash the person wearing it under any circumstance. It's particulary gross when the criticism fails to acknowledge different body types, budgets, cultures, etc.

I'm wearing leggings today. IF I posted my outfit on here or some other forum, it would be totally valid I think for someone to say they don't like leggings, or that they are not on trend or whatever. It would not be acceptable for them to mock me for wearing them. And if I'm just walking down the street minding my business, then critics should keep their thoughts to themselves!!

Totally agree with you too Catherine that YLF strikes an excellent balance between honest and constructive feedback without the unnecessary condescension. It's kind of a miracle actually, given *waves hands wildly* online.

Anyways sorry you ran into that irksome content, that's the sort of thing that winds me up too! xx

Jenni NZ

Veteran

I suspect it was unsettling to you because you’re a kind person. And also I wonder if you can feel that such snarking could easily be directed at you in the future if you broke some of the latest fashion “dictates”.
I agree that Angie sets such a kind tone here that largely such sniping is absent. I venture to say though that occasionally a “mean girl” tone can appear even here. I have used the blocking function to filter out contributions from some who I feel can fit that description so that my pleasure in this site is not spoiled.

catherine

Veteran

Helena, great analysis. I was wound up about it.
Jenni, you may be right. I certainly wouldn’t hang around for it, though.

rachylou

Veteran

In-group/out-group stuff is… more outdated than capris tbh. Jus’ sayin’.

I really enjoy QVC, just to watch. Everyone is so enthusiastic, lol. But it does remind me of the SNL skit about, like, the Mary Lou Retton haircut… I can’t remember what they called it. I had it. The one that’s perfect for your corporate job, PTA, and basketball practice…

Helena

Veteran

Haha Rachy ... SNL does some funny ones where they have a go at ubiquitous items ... The mom jeans one springs to mind, the irony of course being that they are completely on trend right now!

avicennia

Veteran

Audrey Hepburn and her capris are the epitome of style!

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Well-said, Helena! And Jenni, and Rachy, and avicennia!

That sounds like a nasty pile on. There are better ways to build group cohesion than to create an "out" group and then disparage its members.

YLF is a bit of an online oasis.

Sal

Veteran

You can hope that we have evolved past what is in and what is out. Especially when it's mean.

Angie and the forum get it right 95% of the time (Angie always gets it right).

What I object to is when it's making fun of older people (for example) with no idea about the restrictions of age, how hard it is to find clothes that work with clumsy fingers or larger middles or requiring practicality around lengths and tripping etc

Anonymous

That's just petty high school s%!# How does it affect them what people on tour busses wear? But I think of "influencers" (eyeroll) as a vain and self centered lot as a whole- just wannabe celebs without acting/music/other viable talent- so there's that...

Sooo glad for YLF! Thank you Angie

Brooklyn

Veteran

Sometimes people like to gather around negativity. It’s a sad feature of social media. It upsets me too when it descends into ridicule. I always think people should say what they think about a particular trend, colour, silhouette or look that they don’t care for as if their best friend (or their best friend’s mum!) was sitting across from them wearing the said trend, colour etc. With a little diplomacy.

Helena

Veteran

In fairness, we also can't lump "influencers" into one bucket though either right? I work for an "influencer" (not fashion) and she is an incredibly hard working small business woman using the available technology and marketing ecosystem to create a really positive business and yes, sell stuff (because bills ). I know sometimes when we talk about influencers there's an image of rich women with nothing better to do cashing in on their wealth and those certainly exist! But I would gently suggest we should avoid stereotyping here just as we should with women wearing "outdated" capris. Xoxo

(ETA cross posted with Brooklyn but I love her rule of thumb about how to comment xx)

Aquamarine

Veteran

I think I know which influencer Catherine is talking about. At least, I saw a similar post yesterday and similar comments from readers. It felt like middle school meanness all over again.

Sal is spot-on. My eyes have been opened to the difficulties old age poses for everything a lot of us take for granted. My mom is almost 87 and every part of getting dressed—putting on a bra, pulling up underwear, putting on socks and shoes—is a long, arduous process which requires assistance. And while she enjoys fashion and clothes, that comes secondary to comfort and practicality now.

Let’s walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before we judge their fashion choices.

LJP

Veteran

What makes me very uncomfortable are oblique references to "meanness" here on the forum. I wasn't going to jump in here, but it honestly unsettles me deeply.

A Canadian IG'r who I vaguely follow (she lives in Alberta and is an expert thrifter, which is always really interesting even though our styles aren't at all alike) made a crazy comment - COMPLETE WITH SCREEN SHOT - of a "fashion over 50" blogger I actually recognized from Instagram. I was horrified .

RobinF

Veteran

Agree, I don't understand why people have to get mean. I was following a fashion blogger for a while who would make snarky comments and I eventually unfollowed. Who needs the negativity?

catherine

Veteran

Rachy, in my opinion, SNL generally makes fun of people who deserve it .
Avicennia, agree 100%.
Suz, yes, “oasis” is a description I would also use.
Sal, I probably am actually more sensitive to such mean nonsense now that I’m 67.
Suntiger, I do think that many fashion influencers, with some exceptions, have earned the reputation.
Brooklyn, this is the way, I think.
Aquamarine, Lisa, and Robin, appreciate the commiseration.
All of you, many thanks for listening to my strong objection . I am grateful.

phoebe

Meanness in any form enrages me as well and I think it's important to distinguish it from any other type of comment or judgement

Depending on the context I may or may not protest but it's like a mask has been lifted and once seen it's hard to forget

Vildy

Veteran

What I treasure about YLF is not just the kind environment but that Angie so consistently and ably supports the development of individuality so there is never any undercurrent of getting people to shape up and pass muster to fall in line with her own choices of looks.

SW Ann

Veteran

My rule in life really is:if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. I really don't like meanness. We can all be mean enough to ourselves. I simply don't understand the meanness some people perpetrate....Because of this, this is the only blog I can read daily, and sometimes participate in. Would you say it if you were face to face with this person??? If not, then don't type it! In terms of an active discussion of fashion, and what one likes, that is different. But I think most of us, in this group, know the difference.

catherine

Veteran

Phoebe, Vildy and Ann, I couldn’t agree more.

Echo

Veteran

Aquamarine makes a really good point. Helping my mum as she ages has really opened my eyes to adaptive clothing and the ordeal it can be to get dressed, even when someone has been fashion-conscious their entire life.

And criticizing people on a tour bus? That seems like criticizing someone's grammar because of their texts or quick messages on a board. People typically dress for comfort and practicality while touring as opposed to walking a runway.

We ALL have preferences and poison eyes for some things, but this site has really made me appreciate that even when things aren't right for me, they can be fab on others. And while I don't know Angie IRL, I have to admit that when I first got here, I found it almost unnerving how kind she was to everyone about everything. I just don't know that many truly, deep-down GOOD people in my life, so I kept thinking the mask would slip. But I've since decided it isn't a mask, and that's an inspiring thing.

April

Veteran

A fun song for Team Anti-Mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGIUtLO_x8g

catherine

Veteran

Echo, you’re so right.

Peri

Veteran

It's always a sore spot for me when people say anything along the lines of "don't wear this anymore". I figured out why this triggers me when there was a post (sorry to not credit the originator, it was so long ago I couldn't find it) about your "why" of fashion. For me it was like therapy because I figured out my why was to not be wrong and that it was an impossible goal when "right" keeps changing.

A friend and I recently had this discussion about 3/4 length sleeves because an influencer had listed all the ways they were bad, but my friend had seen another influencer list all the ways they were good. It is all just opinion stated as fact. The attitude is that you have the answer, everyone should listen to what you say and do what you think. That will bother me even without the mean element. The influencer who said they were bad was not mean at all, but she didn't present as "I think, I don't like", she presented as "this is the way it is".

Add in the mean element of either the influencer or the followers chiming in to act like "oh yes, I know, I'm with the cool kids, I would never do the stupid wrong thing" and that is just one of the worst things about fashion.

And for the record, I don't even know what capri pants are! Cropped pants of varying lengths are still everywhere so what makes a few inches more or less become such a heated subject. It's not only mean, it's silly.

Cue Angie's post of today. She is the true antidote to fashion meanness.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Peri, I remember that thread and what a revelation it was to you (and many of us, I think) when we really dug down and looked at our "why."

Here's to a happier fashion future without dogmatism and nastiness.

catherine

Veteran

Peri, I think that’s what really got me fired up regarding the original influencer’s post, along with all of the comments there.
It was presented as, “ I can’t believe people are still wearing capris when they are obviously SO OUT”.
Exactly what you said, along with a large side order of derision aimed at anyone who didn’t stop wearing capris.
I know that any outfit I ever post here will have constructive suggestions. As I have often said, “I couldn’t get dressed without you”.

Joy

Veteran

I wear capris with care because I know DH hates them but they make sense as an over 75s answer to shorts in hot weather. He was seeing capries that more like leggings worn as pants in the work place and banned them. I try to make sure mine look like real pants rather than leggings. Maybe the critics have seen poor examples. Wear nothing shear so that the floral panties show if you bend over. That is disgusting.