Sal, cultural norms are an important element I didn’t factor in here — what works in your region. I see you as a Kibbe natural, too, and as you have refined your style adjectives, you have become more & more comfortable and authentic seeming. If that’s not an oxymoron!

Suntiger, your examples prove how Kibbe’s theory (if we can make sense of it) alone is not enough! It’s important to consider line, but that can’t be the only consideration. You know what works for you and you always look elegant even in your sporty ensembles!

Janet, you always look amazing in your clothes and you know what works for you. I guess in terms of body shape you do have some “romantic” characteristic according to Kibbe, or at least some yin tendencies — but maybe you are one of those, as LJP said, who looks best when playing against type, to some degree. Or maybe your facial bone structure gives you that yang and so you actually need a degree of it in your clothing.

Jaime, yes, I’d have pegged you as a kind of gamine, too. Maybe soft gamine? In any case, you are so right, some of the stylists we’ve discussed of late don’t seem to recognize that the same tricks won’t work for all…

Jussie, I think the classic category still exists? I agree, though — most people are not obvious Kibbe types, and his writing is so darn confusing it does not help matters!

Olive Green, so interesting that pattern does not work for you! But colour blocking does. Maybe you are a dramatic classic vs. a gamine! Regardless, it sounds as if you have worked out a strategy for dressing yourself to your best advantage. High five to my short and not pretending to be tall sister!

Gryffin, you do indeed sound like a classic dramatic. Absolutely! That’s one reason your beloved black works so well for you! And simple, clean lines. You need some drama but are not a drama queen, LOL.

Dee, you seem to be doing very well, intuitively, in the fashion department. Interesting what you say about bohemian looks. I like them but can’t wear them. They feel and (unless in very light touches) look off on me, as well. I wonder if you might be a dramatic classic. I have not seen enough of your style to guess, but that’s my suspicion.

Ginger, I understand about the belt and can visualize and even feel it. I, too, have a slightly short waist, and the advice would be to leave a wide belt alone, but back in the 80s when my waist was more defined, I wore one and loved it! Sometimes we have to ignore the “rules.” Also the “types.” I think Kibbe’s height advice must be terribly outdated. All his recommendations and examples tend to focus on thin, white celebrities. It isn’t helpful. I do like that he included some stars from previous eras — that could potentially help someone like you who hearkens back to an earlier time for some fashion inspiration.

Ummlila — I agree with you. Figure flattery and colour flattery alone are actually a dull way to dress. JFE is a great concept! Kibbe would actually agree with that — he’s all about dressing authentically. He just emphasizes “line” as the ticket to authenticity, which is reductive in its own way.

Robin, that is interesting. I am not sure how I might “type” you if I were guessing. But your idea that your personality influences your best style, helping to offer some kind of balance, is intriguing.

Oh, Joy. I hear you on the height issue! I am so sorry — you’ve had enough dressing challenges over the past few years and always look amazing in spite of them! My mother also lost a lot of height as she aged. It does change proportions, for sure.

Bijou, that is fascinating. I think you have a fabulous sense of what works on you. Your more quirky and dramatic choices in shoes and bags are a great update of Kibbe, whose advice seemed very limited to the 80s. I think you have learned how to modernize the recommendations and display a sense of humour in your accessories, in particular!

Jenni, I remember those earlier conversations. I always pegged you as some kind of gamine. (A snazzy shoemaker's elf has to be gamine, right?) Your love of elaborate footwear actually fits right in! As does your preference for slim, ankle baring pants. I share that preference, by the way...I will wear wider pants but only if they are cropped now, unless -- perhaps, they are tapered. Thank goodness footwear has caught up to my needs in my climate and there are boots with higher shafts that keep me warm!

Thanks, Star and Chewy, and Vildy for helping to explain....

Thanks Suz! Actually Kibbe’s term for a soft gamine is (who knows what it really means) “spitfire chic”?!
I quite like the sound of that, ha ha!

It suits you, Jenni!

I wonder if the height thing needs updating. My Mum was considered tallish at 5 ft 5 as am I at 5 ft 8 1/2. But younger people are even taller.

Yes, Sal, I think a lot could use updating. Including the examples -- they should include women of different ages, races, etc. Heights should be adjusted for changes in worldwide nutrition and associated growth patterns. And for different regions, too. Asian women tend (or tended in the past, until nutritional changes) to be smaller framed and shorter -- surely they are not all gamine? Couldn't be. Dutch women tended in the past to be taller than average....they are not all dramatic.

I’m of a similar mind to Janet - haven’t really figured out Kibbe, and suspect the slot I’d be in (probably Natural) would be a mismatch. In my mind I’m a Classic, and in my heart I’m a Gamine! (I chose ‘Elegant Tomboy’ for my descriptor.)

I have long limbs, a modest bosom, and near rectangular torso, but broad shoulders and muscle development from exercise with narrow insertion points (knees, ankles, wrists) makes me appear curvier. Also, my hair fights with my ‘feelings’ about my style personality. It’s curly and wild - if left alone. I prefer it in it’s natural state from May through October, but when the temps are cold and hats are a daily thing, I prefer to quickly dry it with a blow dryer - and it comes out straight! At a short, chin length - it read as more gamine, but at it’s current shoulder length it reads as natural when curly, and classic when straight!



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Suz, I couldn't agree more with your last comment!

Thanks Suz, Star and Vildy for explaining. Appreciate it! For the record, I am 5ft 6 and very small boned.

My conclusion:

I think we will find accuracies in Kibbe analyses and descriptions when they suit us - and vice versa! Wow to the "aha moments", and bristle at what sounds off. I'm sure there are elements of truth in the generalizations because we are bound to find them with countless variables at play. It's all in good fun, so take from Kibbe what works well for you

Suz  haha, now you’ve sent me down the Kibbe rabbit hole looking up dramatic classic and I certainly do see my personal style reflected there but as Angie suggests maybe its just what I want to see, but I will take what works well for me. However, it does in some ways explain why certain cuts, fabrics, and styles never worked that great on me. 

I agree that there needs to be a more updated version as people are generally taller now that when this was first developed. Oh well its all in good fun.

Carla, could you be a dramatic or dramatic classic? I wonder.

Angie -- you are so right. Take what resonates and leave the rest! But I find it interesting to compare different systems and theories and note that each seems to leave something out. If we go exclusively by one or another, we won't feel authentic in our clothes.

It’s really interesting that you mention ‘gamine.’ I believe I am also a Kibbe gamine. The things he says about clothing construction are dead on imo… But when I think of gamine style or personality, if you will, I think Zoey Deschanel - and that’s neither of us.

On another note, several in my family call me tall and they seem to think I can wear leggy willowy looks… but the height is relative. I’m a round average little thing in reality, lol

I think there are mixes. We are all so different. I just did the kibble test again. I got all Bs and Cs. For the first part body line etc I got mainly Bs so leaning towards natural, the 2nd part (body features? ) more Cs so more classic and the last part (face?) was largely Bs so natural. There is no type for this so you just have to look for overall ideas. My mother and others used to encourage me to wear classic structured lines but I’ve always veered towards jeans and a more natural style so there could be a discord between types.
@Sal, I think you are right about the change in height and as Rachylou points out it’s also relative to groups of people. I’m 5ft 6 and people have always (and still do to some extent) describe me as tall. It’s average not tall. I work in a school with a lot of Pasifika people and I’m always being told I’m skinny.

Next round, your star sign and fashion personality

LOL Lisa, I like that!

Leo. Does it fit me or not? Heheh.

LOL! Libra. Can never make up my mind

UmmLila. Enjoying this thread! I tend to agree with Angie that these systems are not the whole story. Maybe they are best seen as Rorschach tests - giving some aha moments in terms of what resonates but not to be followed blindly. We are not one dimensional.

Gemini here . I’m the poster child for this sign .

I’m a Virgo with Aries rising.

Ok, time to start the astrology thread! (I'm a Capricorn, by the way...hard-working and hyper-organized.)

I think when I began this, my whole point was really that no one system out there has all the answers. Traditional (fruit-type) body typing and traditional colour analysis could not account for certain elements that I just know work well on me. I was curious if others also experience that. In my case, Kibbe's emphasis on line and energy helped to answer why the colour and contrast suggestions that "should" work on me, do not (or do not work on their own). So I was curious about how many of you have experienced something similar. I don't think I expressed the question well -- sorry about that!

Thanks everyone, for indulging my question!

Fellow Cappie here So in the name of efficiency, I'm just going to link directly to a previous comment of mine regarding my suspected Kibbe type, & how I accommodate that with makeup:
https://youlookfab.com/welookf.....st-2295606

TL;DR I suspect Romantic or Soft Classic, which means I would need gently draping in pastels. But I type seasonally as a Deep Autumn (another classification system). These 2 are diametrically opposed, lol! All 5ft3.5 of me is overwhelmed by ruffles too

I find that not many systems focus on the nuances between non-white folk, to be honest (not all of us with darker skin & hair are Autumn & Winters, for example) But, on the plus side, social media is really helping me with workable inspo instead!

@Sally I think 'presence' has something to do with it too - in a teaching & learning context, people are always pegging me as 5ft6-5ft9(!)

They're completely shocked when I make a beeline for the short end on picture day

Kibbe never resonated with me. My answers seemed to fall into the Yang dramatic category yet the style advice provided did not work for me. Seasonal color typing drove me nuts. I ended up being typed as three of the seasons! Spring, Autumn and Summer, and then Light Summer. However, I do like the Align system. Finally, something that made perfect sense and worked and that I understood. The woman who created it is genius. I hope she publishes a book! So, yes, I did find a system that helped me and made total sense. It explains everything for me including except my color palette, however, it does cover texture and pattern, line and silhouette, etc.

Kibbe was an eye opener for me because of his emphasis on understanding the beauty of different archetypes. If you resemble Anjelica Huston, fashion advice geared towards turning you into a Marilyn Monroe archetype of feminine beauty doesn’t work. Understanding how to embrace the yangness of my Dramatic archetype, on the other hand was total revelation. Fashion became fun instead of a never ending process of trying to camouflage my “imperfections”. It was a relief to say NO to waistlines and YES to angularity and architectural shapes.


I frankly don’t see any system that categorizes people into “types” as providing THE answer to whatever area or issue we’d like to address. I’m not a “type”, I’m me—full of contradictions, impulses, and sensibilities. Jaime is spot on—we are not one dimensional—so, like any advice, I think about what is offered, decide if there is something useful in the observations or suggestions, and then figure out what I want to do going forward.

So, Suz, in answer to your question, I found many of Kibbe’s observations useful in my fashion journey, and the same could be said of other “systems” but, like you, I’d resist following any system of “do this, not that” if it didn’t fit in with my sense of what is right for me. Ignoring is as important as adopting in my books.

Thanks for weighing in, Gaylene. It's all grist for the mill, I guess -- we take from each system what makes sense and use it to devise our own unique personal style expressions!

I agree with you Suz - the fruit body analysis never quite resonated - I am such a mix of hourglass rectangle and pear!! Which shouldn’t be a thing but is. And whilst I am a spring - I find it too restrictive. Kibbe has helped me more- with similar reasons to Gaylene.

Take what suits from these systems- I think there are a few aha moments - especially when facing change or upheaval or dissatisfaction with your current style.

It's all multifaceted, isn't it? There must be a hwole body of psychological research on the interplay between personality and physical presentation. A bit of a chicken/egg question, I suspect! And of course it's not just about the individual, but the environment and context in which you find yourself. As much as I love breton stripes and tartan (and they love me back), they can feel very pedestrian here in New England. I don't want to come off as having stepped out of the LLBean catalog.

As for horoscope, I'm a Pisces with Scorpio rising. Not sure anyone would ever guess that from the way I dress! I'll never be without a hefty dose of black, so maybe that's in keeping with the Scorpio.

kibbe has been very helpful to me in appreciating that most people are a ‘mix’ of features and characteristics (yin and Yang in his terms). We often fixate on the things we don’t like about ourselves- and lose sight of the whole impression. It helped me come to grips with my scale and size and how that related to things like pattern and jewelry size.
Also- it’s a guide, not a set of rules eg height. Tippi Hedren, Joan Crawford and Ava Gardner are all dramatic types, and all less than 5’4”. Bette Davis- 5’4”, a gamine. It’s about how you are perceived, not about what the measuring tape says! Another example- I’m a dramatic- and my hips are 10” bigger than waist. But my length/height, and small, sharp features are what people notice.
As for star sign- aquarius with Aries rising and scorpio moon- prob v in synch with a light spring dramatic style! Modern, active and a bit witchy…

Going off to investigate Dramatic classic, Suz. Thank you for the suggestion!

What an interesting thread, Suz. I won't go down the Kibbe rabbit hole, but like Lisa P, I have noticed that I am much more of a 'curve' person. But, importantly, this shows up differently for me: I have circles all over me. Circles in my hair (curly), circles in my face (bulbous nose, shapely lips, round cheeks when i smile), Circles in my body (I have rounded hips and rear and round, high breasts, no matter what weight I am.) Because of this, strict lines like stripes usually don't work on me, while organic and floral patterns are great. Now, i need some contrast - which is why sharp eyebrows and a sharp asymmetrical haircut work for me - and, like Lisa, if I go too down this route, i can appear mumsy or dumpy, so I need some structure in my clothing too. But it has been an interesting learning for me and I mostly stay away from stripes and other strong lines in my dressing.