Oh good . I must have missed it .

SF, I still don't understand...but if you are suggesting that I was sneering at undone looks, I apologize for giving that impression -- it was not my intention. I'm a fan of what works on and for the individual -- and like diversity.

Suz, if I understood you correctly, I took it mean that you wondered if someone with polished style *might* be a little more resistant to the term "effortless" if they take it to mean that effortless is to be considered superior to polished ("effort-ful" so to speak) ... whereas you are saying that both effortless and "effort-ful" style should both be considered valid style approaches, depending on what works for the individual.

Is that sort of it?

(who knew - apparently effortful is a real word?! I though I made it up lol)

Suz, I understood you to be saying that one faction (“done-up” / “undone”) rolls their eyes at the other. I was saying that it can, unfortunately, go both ways.

Helena, that's precisely what I was saying -- thank you.

And yes, SF, unfortunately, such judgements can and do go both ways.

But as far I as know, nobody here is guilty of judging others for being polished or RATE. Or anything else.

Angie
works very hard -- as do most forum members -- to create a style-inclusive culture on YLF. So, while we don't see 100% of world styles represented here (how could we?), we do see and learn to appreciate a much wider diversity of styles than might appear on many fashion sites. Especially over time, as different participants come and go.

For me, YLF is the fashion equivalent of my writing group. When we look at a piece of writing in the group, we don't critique Nancy's poem because it's not like Sadiqa or Ashley's. We try to figure out what Nancy's poem wants to become and give suggestions accordingly. We don't try to turn it into somebody else's poem. We marvel at each unique voice.

I posted the original link to Alison Bornstein talking about the idea of being effortless, as well as my own take that it's akin to Beyoncé's tongue in cheek line "I woke up like this .... flawless."

I love the responses from Bijou and Angie, because the idea of not being a casual person completely resonates with me. I am in a formal profession (law) and I'm likewise conscious of responsibilities and expectations and image in all human interactions. I want people to see me the way I want to be seen.

Does that mean I wear a suit anymore? No. Today on a zoom with prospective clients for a marriage case, I wore an oversize green sweater, a miniskirt and tights and fuzzy Birkenstock platform clogs. I allowed the pink background of my home office to show. I let my raffish old dog in from the sliding door during the call, so they definitely saw the entire look and not just desk-up. But it was all with intent: a backdrop of energy and humanity on the platform of intellect and trustworthiness.

And further to Suz's writing group: I am a member of a writing group too, but only when I'm in Spain, and we are enchanted by each other's stories (both invented and true.) Somehow the group members always seem to think my romantic tales and Hermes scarves drifting over the Med are real. I adore the stories of everyone on YLF.

Here's an analogy: I like to cook. Like clothes, it's a creative outlet. Recently I made a recipe my sister sent me from someone on instagram who makes reels. It was for roasted cauliflower. I have a way I do it...just olive oil and salt at 450, but this new recipe called for onion, garlic, thyme, parmesan at the end, cooked at a lower temp. It was fun to experiment. BUT turns out, I couldn't even taste the cauliflower, the onion really dominated. And it was mushier. (I ended up adding it to cooked pasta and adding walnuts). Is my original way more "effortless", both in taste and look? Well, it's much less work and I feel like it's a better result, in terms of showcasing the taste of the vegetable. Is this applicable to clothing? I think so! In that, sometimes adding more just complicates the original beauty of something...same with a room design. So it's all consciously chosen, but the end result is an "ease" to it...or good taste.

Yeah the word effortless in terms of image does make me think of a fashion model who throws on a pair of designer jeans and a red lip and just rocks it without even trying.
Of course that’s not me at all haha! I do put some effort in. Overall by world standards I am not especially dressed up, but where I live and work I am probably at the more dressy end of the scale. I enjoy it though- so it doesn’t feel like effort; it feels like fun.
In fact, I have received a lot of comments about it; the vast majority are quite positive but occasionally people are rather bemused by my level of effort, with comments such as “but how can you be bothered??”.
Well the answer is I like it and I want to… so I do. Part of me still feels self conscious about it- but I also want to be true to myself and what I enjoy so mostly I think… I’m going to wear whatever I like, even if some people don’t see the point in looking nice. It helps me feel like me!

I’m obviously very late to this thread however, when I hear the term effortless, I think of two possibilities, the first is congruence and confidence. Rachy’s comment resonated with my thinking. It can take some of us (definitely me) a lot of work to understand what works well for oneself, to feel and look one’s best and to cultivate personal style, however, once you’ve figured it out, I believe congruence and confidence shine. In my thinking, these qualities contribute to making the look appear effortless despite any work involved in putting together the look. A example I can think of has been raised above regarding makeup. Someone may or may not wear a lot of makeup and they may or may not use a natural look or a bold and or dressy look. To my eye, whether or not makeup looks obvious and/or looks effortful vs effortless seems to depend on whether it is congruent with someones persona, etc. My college roommate wears bright fuschia or bright red lipstick every day, even at the gym. It looks effortless on her, yet clearly is also very congruent and striking with her coloring and personality. If I did this it would look like I made an effort…


Additionally, I believe that once you understand your personal style, it becomes easier to thoughtfully break one of your typical personal style rules to add some deliberate ease or comfort without compromising your entire persona and maybe it it in this realm where effortlessness may fall. For example, someone who wears heels might instead wear some flats or a pair of nice leather sneakers, etc.

You know, reading Umlilla’s entry, it perfectly described how I approached effort vs somewhat undone style for work. It depended on the audience. The world is a stage, and we go through a lot of stages, heh.
At 5 foot tall and in male dominated industries and in academia, I definitely used the power of presentation to send the message I wanted.
It’s also possible that I do not have a hardened enough sense of self to care that it is, or isn’t a “me” . Me is malleable.
Is this a great thread, or what!

Thinking more on this- to me it takes Much more effort to passably look casual.

Putting on a skirt takes zero effort. First of all, most you can pull on and they fit over a range of weight. Second, they're So Much Easier to buy in the first place. Chances are, the first skirt I try in a shop will fit, and I can go about my day.

Jeans, or worse-shorts, have a whole lot of fit points. They are an absolute Mare to buy (at least for my shape). I'm lucky to find a single pair that passes the bend over test. Plus, they can fit fine in the morning and be painful by afternoon. They're not "forgettable" like skirts are.

In the same way, it takes zero effort to slide on a pair of sandals. You can kick them right off when you get home, and wait till the last possible minute to put them on when you leave the house. Sneakers, OTOH you have to fool with tying/making sure they don't get untied, plus all the fit issues, plus dealing with socks. Way more effort!

Suntiger, yeah, I’ve commented a couple times that conflating formal/dressy with making an effort is in accurate.

Olive Green, are you being sarcastic?

Hah, in my 13+ years on YLF I have seen resurfacing many times threads about "effortless looks"...and the thread is always controversial and full of science. I think we all have our effortless & more effort-full looks.
For ex. I feel really effortless on wearing a skirt or dress--not only bare legs /that's my heaven:-)) but wearing, sheers/opaques to them, too.-and so, many of others would consider I made an effort-(just because wearing a skirt?) but I really didn't.
Then, I often have to put in quite an effort for making do an outfit around any pants (and also looking effortless- even if casual!!)---this is because pants are the most trickier item of clothing on my body- and rarely find they fit good or do me any favors. I need to really pay that effort to reach the same consistent aesthetical and comfort standards (set up for myself) -when wearing pants-does it make sense?

HAH, just saw we somehow crossposted our minds with Suntiger regarding skirts-oh and even shoes...!:-)). Oh, and Stag I do wear my skrits and dresses for casuals, workdays, errands and chores-most of the time, too(and so, not only dressy/formal!!!:-) ).

Sorry I have not read the responses. But I just saw a post on this on instagram and was mulling over, maybe effortless is simply the wrong word. When I see posts of "effort" dressing there can be a level of visual perfectionism. Then you get the posts leave something "undone" - messy bun, don't tuck evenly etc. Is a better word "uncontrived?" Like too "perfect makeup" How many times have you seen a smoky eye post and they talk about how much better the makeup looks after a night of sweaty dancing? Or run your hands through your hair and rumple it a little bit. I'm reminded me of the quote by

Edgar Allan Poe — 'There is no exquisite beauty… without some strangeness in the proportion.'
Too much perfection may come off as bland, too proportionate, usual or expected. Maybe that's why the messy bun, unexpected shoe, out there bag, smudged make up, messy necklaces - bring the dimension of exquisite in the unexpected, the beauty of kintsugi. Maybe effortless is so much more as unexpected, undone, unique, uncontrived, unusual which brings notice to the harmony and detail that our effort has created. Anyway, that's what I'm striving for!

I am late to this thread - but found it fascinating. I nodded my head along with all of it.

As a Kibbe natural having an undone look feels very authentic to me. For others who are classics or romantics, looking more polished feels that way. Love the differences- I don’t want everyone to look and dress the same.

Thanks Dee! Loved reading this,

Lyn67, yes, I wear them that way too. Lots of people seem to be saying that those items themselves connote effort. I don’t see why. I’ve certainly seen such perfectly snagged tights and ideally tousled hair that I know effort went into them too.

I think effortless and RATE are not synonyms. You can be very polished and dressed up and still look what I might call "effortless". (Inez on the red carpet below looks very "effortless" to me, but not like she didn't make an effort. Just that she knows exactly what to do and doesn't overthink or overdo anythig.

And you can be very RATE and not look 'effortless', but rather just look sloppy. (no effort doesn't equal effortless).

Think of a dancer gliding 'effortlessly' across the stage. You know it takes a lot of training and a lot of effort, plus a degree of artistry, to make it look that easy. I might try the same moves, but my plodding, awkward steps would be anything but effortless. (just come to my barre class someday and you will see what I mean!)

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OK, I thought about it and here I'm again.
The effortless look implies that a person spent a minimal amount of time on getting ready for the world. It is not necessary true.
One might spend considerable amount of time to find one's style, carefully purchase just the right items, get a becoming hair style and maintain "the infrastructure". Even applying "no makeup" makeup takes time.
This is one way. There is another - just doing as little as feasible and roll with it, kind of "brush through the hair and a swipe of a lip balm" way.

But a result seems to be an easy, "off duty" look.

I don't think of any piece of clothing as a "effortless" or not. It is a look, a vibe that is either effortless or controlled.
Highly styled hair, an extensive makeup, a number of accessories, very coordinated outfit - all of that visually tells "I spent my time to look this good". Female politicians, TV women, celebrities and many, many others love this put together look.

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Just another reason to celebrate diversity.

Gryffin, I like your point here about perfection and our eye for the unexpected...maybe a better word than "effortless". Many years ago I bought an old antique Amish quilt and one square looked like it was a mistake, but turns out they did it on purpose of course, as they believed only God was perfect.

But back to clothes. Sometimes when I see someone in an outfit that looks too planned, maybe too matchy matchy, my eye wants to add something imperfect too...like you say, rumple their hair or lose the pearls, as if they have just come from an afternoon of great sex, not to get off color about it, but just, well, that relaxed feeling one has in their body, the ease of movement. Maybe "effortless" is used too though because sometimes one looks so pulled together it can appear and feel too controlled and kind of uptight to use an old word...instead of using clothes to express the relaxation and joy in the body, even if one is at a dressy event.

That said, I feel everyone should do their thing, and discover their own artistry. That after all, is the fun of it, isn't it?

@suntiger Yes, I think that's what I was (trying to) get at, lol - @Sal demonstrates it well with her comment. I suspect I'm either a Classic or Romantic Kibble type, so I can't do 'undone' like her, without some 'dressed up' aspect to it (like satin cargo pants, lol).

That said though, I don't wear makeup on a daily basis - I will if I'm teaching (to echo @Bijou's & @umlila's comments about which parts of my personality come across at work), but even then I just smudge some warmer shades around my eyes & lips (maybe my cheeks). The end result is harmonious with my skin colour, so it doesn't *look* 'done up' (in the way a bright lip or winged eyeliner might look on me) - question is, would this count as effortful (since it's out of the norm for me) or effortless (because it 'blends' into me)?

Also I'm keeping that typo - now imagining what 'romantic' dog food would look like