Stopping our sisters - YouLookFab Forum

Last week the altos in our choir were trying to squeeze into a too small space. One of us, a nun, made some joke about how wide she was and how she wouldn't fit anywhere. When nobody paid attention, she repeated it. Without thinking I put my hand on her shoulder and said, "Stop it. You're beautiful."

Suddenly the other nun among us, a young one the age of my daughter, turned around and gave me a look of comprehension and delight. Then she said, "And she's also smart and funny!"

So if I can digress a bit, this reminded me of how if you're a woman in the US, you're going to have body image issues. (I know women in other countries have body image issues, but I'm not qualified to rant about how their cultures interact with the phenomenon!) Even if you pray at length seven times a day and make a conscious choice to forego makeup and to cover your hair and to wear baggy clothes in the same two colors for the rest of your life!

Anyway. I don't usually respond that way when women put themselves down. Often I'm uncomfortably silent. I might claim not to have noticed whatever flaw the woman had mentioned. What do you do? What should we do?

11 years ago

crutcher

Veteran

Great post...I respond with a positive statement...Women have enough angst with body issues, hair issues, clothes issues...which are piled on responsibiilities for the family...jobs, finances...they don't need to have to deal with negative statements either from themselves or from others...I would always find a positive way to praise the person...

Suz

(website)

What a powerful thing to do, Jody. Especially with touch. The touch says so much -- conveys the meaning behind your words and creates the pause.

I think on some level you must have known this woman needed this. She repeated herself -- she was looking for help. Looking to be seen. She needed a response.

In my work, I have learned that body image issues arise not only as a result of our culture (broadly speaking). Many women (of all sizes) hide within their bodies because of a history of abuse. And despise their bodies because of this. Another reason a gentle touch given with love and respect in the right context can be healing.

There are other reasons we put ourselves down as well. I have been reading a book called Odd Girl Out about the culture of girl to girl bullying and shaming in North America. Insulting our size or disparaging our bodies in other ways is a way to make ourselves "fit in" with other women. Ironically, it shows we are not "too big for our britches" and do not think over highly of ourselves. Because women who think "too highly" of ourselves are perceived as threatening.

Aziraphale

Way to go, Adelfa! What we should do when we hear that sort of self-deprecating comment is exactly what you did do.

Adelfa

Crutcher, that is beautiful. We need to be kind to each other!

Suz, excellent points. What a scary thought that putting ourselves down is a ticket to belonging.

Astrid

That was really a good thing to do! I sometimes try that too when I catch other women around me doing it, but I found it very difficult not to be misunderstood. It's like Suz said, putting ourselves down seems to be the acceptable thing and we do it to belong. And when you make a comment against it you easily get thought of as arrogant, presumptuous and rude. As if the unspoken rules state you can't call them out on their negative selftalk but have to join them instead. I'm definitely on a mission to curb this every time my sister starts with it and I think I've been successful. She's fifteen, very intelligent and super accomplished in everything she does and a real cutie besides and I hated it when she started to talk herself down just because all the girls around her were doing it.

You know, I think this is also just a pernicious social ritual that women engage in. You know how it goes -- the first woman bemoans her fatness (or bad hair, or some other feature she perceives to be less than ideal), and the second woman insists that no she is not fat. Then they have a bonding moment. To me, though, it feels like fishing for compliments.

Beth Ann

Go Jody! You spoke real grace that day. So glad you followed that prompting. I think it's important for all of us to challenge the lie that meeting a cultural standard of beauty makes one more valuable. You were preaching to the choir! Hee!

MsMary

ROFL, Beth Ann! Preaching to the choir!! Love it!

Jody, I think your response was just perfect! Much better, if I may be so bold, than the knee-jerk "oh, but you're not fat!" which to me always implied that "fat" was a dirty word and that to be "fat" was the most horrible thing that one could possibly be. As you beautifully pointed out, it is entirely possible to be fat (or "wide") and beautiful at one and the same time!

Janet

OK, it *can* be fishing for compliments, but I'm going to raise a guilty hand as someone who has participated in a lot of negative self-talk in my life. I'm still working on it. And I've got to say that when I was at my worst doing this, I wasn't fishing for compliments. In fact, I could barely even process a compliment as such, because my brain was so trained to hear the negative.

Negative self-talk is a mental habit. It's very hard to change, but it's possible. I'm still not completely over it, and when I'm in a vulnerable state of mind, it can come creeping back in. (For me, it's linked with depression, so I'm particularly vigilant about it.) Unfortunately, as you all have pointed out, verbally knocking ourselves down is a socially-acceptable activity for women in our culture -- it's seen as modesty or humility, rather than a practice that helps to erode our self-confidence.

Good for you, Jody, for reacting in a compassionate way. I hope more of us can do that to ourselves and others.

rabbit

Just echoing what Janet says about it often being a mental habit or groove, that you you automatically fall into and vocalize.

I know someone who often berates themself out loud and very harshly for being clumsy or forgetting something small. They are no more clumsy than anyone else, and don't seem to give themselves any slack for being tired or in a hurry or anything. I finally figured out they were repeating the same words in the same tone as heard as a child, and it was an unconscious but deeply ingrained pattern -- they weren't fishing for compliments or reassurance, but continuing to punish themselves out of habit.

You can try many things to break the habit, but first they need to become aware that an emotional response can be as habitual as anything else -- and is not at all an objective evaluation.

Gigi

I liked your response, Adelfa, because it wasn't what was expected. I hope that the nun remembered what you said and was able to think about it later.

All too often, the response to something like that is just to "laugh it off," as is what eventually happened, but that seems to just reinforce the supposed truth that it's not OK to be a certain dress size. What you said countered our culture directly. Yay!

I want to say more, dear ladies, but not at 11:30pm after a very full day, when I have a very early 1-hr drive facing me in the morning. Thank you so much for all of your responses and I will be back!

cheryl

How thoughtful of you. What a great way to respond.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

I think it's the website Captain Awkward that calls it a grooming ritual - like chimps picking nits off each other. We all have insecurities and sometimes we bond by sharing them.Then there's all the popular culture and media portrayals of women's bodies that make us more self conscious than we might be otherwise.

My response would depend on the situation and how close the person was to me. Sometimes it's helpful to talk about boundaries and how you're trying to stop negative self talk. Sometimes the best thing is not to respond, either positively or negatively.

Lyn D.

What a great reply- well done for thinking on your feet at the time.
My DD does this and I still find it difficult to stop her in her tracks and to express exactly what you did here, that she is beautiful exactly the way she is right now!

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