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Some thoughts about what our "look" says

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

So, I had a super interesting conversation with my brother yesterday, and it's been stewing some thinking about my style. I'm having some career development pains, trying to make a good decision about my next steps, despite a bunch of other stuff going on and emotional and confidence not helping...I complained to him that I feel that it's really hard for people to understand me. The way I approach work and problem solving is - not weird or anything - but maybe just not what people expect from their inital meeting of me. And then they tend to be put off when my personality, ideas, approaches, etc, have a mismatch. Once they've actually worked with me on a project, they appreciate my uniqueness as a strength and are eager to work with me again. But there seems to often be this painful breaking in period. Maybe this happens to everyone, but it seems like it happens a lot more than it should with me.

My brother's response was, "maybe you need a pink mohawk." OK, I doubt he meant it literally. Well, he probably did....LOL. But taking it figuratively has really got me thinking deeply about how I have chosen to present myself to the outside world and why. I know that it is VERY true that I hide my uniqueness as a protective measure. Maybe that's starting work against me now and it's time to grow out of it. I'm intrigued, but not ready for a mohawk (forgive the cultural appropriation here, I'm using it as a reference point because that's why my brother used).

I'm not quite sure what I want for responses...this is sort of just a musing to help me process my thoughts. the bottom line, I guess, is; I'm super good at knowing what will be approved of. It's like my super power. I think that it's time for me to start working on differentiating between what is acceptable to me and will be approved of, vs. what I really stand for. This is all very difficult to think about through my current cloud of depression and anxiety/stress! It helps me to feel like I have something to work on, no matter how esoteric is probably seems from the outside of my head.

23 replies

Latest reply was from Jenava

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

Sorry about the depression and anxiety first of all, Jenava. I hope you are getting the help you need. It is interesting that you are so good at hiding your light under a bushel. Unconventional thinkers often lack that acute social sense in my experience. Your challenge, perhaps, is to incorporate both of these qualities in your presentation so there is less disconnect between your first impression and your self. Perhaps post outfits that represent these sides in your mind and see how we read them?

binkle

Veteran

I am pondering....
My question is, what do people expect (or, what do you think people expect) from their first meeting with you, that you are delivering in a different way? Or NOT delivering?

Just guessing here, do you think others perceive that you look like a conservative thinker of point-A-to-point-B thoughts. And then you surprise them with intuitive solutions?

Caro in Oz

Veteran

You have hit the nail on the head with, "....it's time for me to start working on differentiating between what is acceptable to me and will be approved of, vs. what I really stand for."

I think dressing ourselves has HUGE psychological import. That is why society has so many rules about it. For me coming to terms with how I wanted to dress has been healing in so many ways. I get the approval dragon, it has been my life's work to slay it

mtnsofthemoon

Veteran

Jenava, glancing at your profile quickly I noticed your fashion persona is quite eclectic. To stimulate your musings, perhaps a few questions? Do you present yourself as reflective of your persona (you sound unique, creative and a good problem solver) or do you tend to play it safe and feel a need to protect yourself from judgement, criticism, etc at work? As a sociology major I loved Erving Gottman's the presentation of self in everyday life. We all have different personas we present in a variety of settings. I don't know you but I am sensing from your post you hold back and don't always share that unique side of yourself until later in the relationship or work project? If you desire people to understand you, sometimes that requires risk, taking a chance and sharing more of yourself? Is that something you would ponder? Best to you in your journey at work and in your career!

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

binkle, yes, I think that's right.

But also, I'm not a yes-man. I like to debate good ideas, and I have really high standards for achievement. I have strong dislike for "group think", "getting along to go along", and "horse trading".

And I have a pretty strong technical aptitude, too, although I've really let that fade into the background of my career for the same reason, and it's really a shame.

Anonymous

You've probably heard about the concept of "enclothed cognition," or the effects of clothing on the thinking process. (You can read a NY Times article on it here http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04.....ption.html. Do you think your clothing isn't adequately or accurately representing your work persona? If so, what changes can you make?

Traci

Veteran

I used to have similar struggles. In time, and with therapy, I learned to accept that I'm complex and expecting people to "get" everything about me straight off the bat was unfair to them and myself. I have tried to stop compensating for what I think they think because I can't control that anyway. If you step back and depersonalize it you'll notice how often the assumptions other people make about you on first glance are really much more about them than they're about you anyway.

Be proud of your complexity. It's a strength. If people are underestimating you, use that to your advantage. Who wants to be simple and read like a book by every person they come across?

FWIW, safe is not a word I would have ever ascribed to your aesthetic. You're bold, modern, feminine and grounded...in appearance, atleast. Obviously, the view I get of you is merely a sliver of everything you are.

binkle

Veteran

Well, do you want people's first impression to be more "confrontational" - not in a bad way, just more "up front" without necessarily being "in your face." I can't think of a better word at the moment. Do you want more of a "what you see is what you get" appearance. Alot of that comes from personal carriage and presence (voice, stride, poise) too. Is there a coworker who can give you some feedback on that?

binkle

Veteran

Traci's thoughts are better than mine!

Sheila

Veteran

Hmmm...this thread is very interesting and it started me thinking about the powerful nonverbal message of accessories. One specialized example are 'pins' (yes, those classic jewelry pieces primarily worn by women). There was a wonderful exhibition and book called 'Read My Pins' at the Smithsonian; it was all about Madeleine Albright, former Secretary of State. She developed a fantastic collection of pins and wore them strategically to signal her intentions at meetings, etc. I am not suggesting that you do this, but perhaps to consider the image you wish to convey and find special accessories that will subtly help you transfer your idea of who you are without having to say a word.

Just one little thought...

Sal

Veteran

Very interesting, while my set of circumstances is different, I have had similar experiences.

A few comments, a bit jumpy though..

Sorry to hear about your depression and anxiety - tough with a small one while navigating a new stage of your career.

I also agree with Traci - sometimes being underestimated can work in your favour. And it is hard to get people right off, we can all get it wrong sometimes, and probably made snap judgements about others which I have had to correct... I have made a call that a beautifully presented glamourous woman was more shallow than she actually was, or conversely that a very conservatively, less well presented person was less interesting than she actually was. I am being honest here - these are not good qualities.

Where do you see the disconnect between the impression you make and what you are actually like? Does your dress/style have to represent what you do professionally or not?

Not sure if this is helpful or not sorry, but I do find it interesting,

rachylou

Veteran

I think about this all the time. It was one of my goals when I came to YLF and remains as a style criteria. I look a lot more laid back than I am - and used to look a lot more innocuous than I am.

Also recently, I've been looking at Pinterest a lot. I keep getting pins in my feed with things tagged with 'dress how you want to be treated.' Inevitably it has some weird head kerchief ankle covering pic to go with, lolol. But I keep looking now at all pins, wondering how a person will be treated wearing this and that. And I wonder exactly how I do wish to be treated. I was going to start a thread about that... but yours will do (hehe).

So... how do you wish to be treated? What crowd do you want to be in with?

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I dress people for a living, and have dressed you too, Jenava. *smiling*

Personally, and I'm drawing from my experience as a fashion professional, I don't think that presenting yourself in a more "unique and outrageous way" so that it prepares coworkers for "out of the box", lateral and outrageous thinking is a successful strategy. All it will do is make you less relatable, and make others feel uncomfortable - or in an extreme case, threatened.

Your style is bold, modern, trendy, elegant, grounded with the classics - and relatable - which I believe sends the right strong message already. It covers all the bases, and makes people take you seriously.

On a side note though - do a little more soul searching on why your confidence is not at its regular higher level. Examine what and why you are hiding, and is that a good or bad thing? That's at the heart of this. Good luck, and much love to you.

(p.s. give your body and spirit time to heal. Your hormones are raging which causes extra emotional distress. It will pass - promise - and you'll feel more confident once things normalize).

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

Rachylou, I love it! Yep, I get that someone's bias is not something I can correct (although I can correct for it). But I think I come across as, as Rachylou put it, "a lot more innocuous than I am". So, I'm not doing any favors by wearing something that is appropriate but maybe is perfect for someone else. It's the crowd I want to be in with that I feel like my current approach to dressing and style and everything, really, is just missing.

And, Traci, it's not that I'm trying to compensate for other's biases pre se. But rather than I'm letting myself get mixed up about what I like, what I'm passionate about, and who I am, because I see so many acceptable possibilities. And, I've learned to play the personae that give me social safety (or so I thought). This inevitably links to the fact that I grew up in a conservative Christian near-cult and there were a lot of restrictions placed on my appearance as a child, adolescent, young adult. I left the church formally at the age of 33, but mentally I left when I went away to college (or a bit before). But I kept up appearances, carefully walking a line between staying faithful to the letter of the church's laws and trying to also appear modern and youthful and professional, frankly, at work...long hair in a bun, a long skirt and no make-up or jewelry really isn't that professional looking. I was also exposed only minimally to popular culture and media so I have a relative blind spot where others seem to just "get it" in regards to how most people might perceive a certain garment, hair-cut, even way of talking (a friend once informed me in middle school that I "talk like a teacher.")

So, I think history is important, and my history has caused a divergence between who I am as a personality, and what I value, and what I look like. I'm feeling a strong need at the moment to try to better align the two...I'm sure I'll have missteps, but I plan to make this a long term goal and not something I get done in a season or two.

I'll also say that what I'm talking about here is deeply personal and possibly not even perceivable to people who don't know me well...I'm looking to re-frame a bunch of things about how I present myself in order to align with my life goals and values. My hair, clothing, shoes, makeup and jewelry are just the trappings, right? It's also my behaviors, expectations, etc. that need to change.

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

Thanks, Angie! Just to clarify, I'm not looking for something more outrageous! Well, maybe here and there. And yes, you did a fab job dressing me. If I had the funds I would have you over here doing it again in a heart-beat because yours is just the kind of expertise and judegment that I really need at the moment.

As an example, I'm considering cutting my hair very short in order to make it easier and quicker to manage. I don't worry about looking too boyish because my figure is very obviously female, no matter what I'm wearing. I don't really love the way it looks longer and it takes a lot of work to make it look properly the way it ought to.

I'm examining why I've never even allowed a consideration of very short hair. The main reason is that cutting one's hair (as a woman, of course, opposite for men) was not allowed while I was growing up. Bangs, as I have now, were frowned upon, as was even trimming one's hair. Cutting my hair short enough that it is obviously short (can't be pulled back, for example) has, for most of my life, been crossing a line. So, I'm letting myself seriously consider it, and I'm trying to deal with any feelings of irrational guilt.

My best friend is an art curator at the SFMOMA. She wears her hair very, very short and has such a beautiful style. It's inspiring to me...she dresses very practically but distinctly, and I do think it influences how people approach her.

That's what I'm going for. It's what I've always striven for, but I feel I've never quite got it figured out, for lots of reasons (church, wanting to "fit in" with the right people at work, etc. - growing up in a very image-conscious - esp. of women - social group has probably made me EXTRA sensitive to what I *think* the norms of the group are) Now I'm looking back and sort of wondering how things would have been different if I'd been more comfortable in my own actual skin all those years (again, not just style-wise).

Aziraphale

Veteran

Hi Jenava, you have posted a very interesting question. I'm sorry you are feeling low on confidence, but it will come in time, I am sure.

I don't know much about you -- I don't know what field you are in, or what you mean by your personal "uniqueness" -- so I'm not totally sure what you're asking. Are we talking like Phoebe from Friends, who was undeniably weird but often came up with fresh ideas because of her "different" way of seeing things? If so, then maybe that gives you an idea. Phoebe definitely dressed differently than everybody else, but not so weirdly that you would stop and stare, and always in a way that looked effortless and natural (the costume team did a good job there).

I guess what I'm getting at is that you should dress how you like, but keep in mind that it's probably less important than you think. For example, a cute short haircut (which it sounds like you are hankering for) is bolder than a basic shoulder-length 'do, yet by no means so weird that it will make people see you in a bad light. It'll just make you look stylish (if it's a good cut and it suits your face).

One thing I have noticed: the art school students who put a lot of effort into making really extreme, out-there fashion statements (crazy hair, clothes that make you stop and stare, multiple piercings in non-mainstream places l(cheek, lip, between the eyes etc)) create mediocre work at best. I can't think of an exception. Your entire creative output shouldn't be spent your clothing, unless, of course, you work in fashion. People who are passionate about their work, and good at it, don't spend too much time trying to look unique.

Having said that, I think that it helps a little for people to get a "read" on you if your outsides reflect your insides. There's a reason absent-minded professors dress the way they do. Arty types generally look it -- they often have a "quality" to their dress. Successful businesspeople look neat and well-groomed.

Greyscale

Veteran

I can really relate to a lot of what you're saying. And I have to say, getting a dramatic haircut did wonders for my similar concerns. But I'm not sure I had to go that far. Now that I feel more comfortable than I'd have imagined with my style, I'm wondering if it's time to swing back towards the center but keep my confidence and willingness to push my comfort zone.

Ultimately who you are comes through, and appearance is just one small part of that.

jenanded

Veteran

FWIW - I would feel very happy if people described me as bold, modern, feminine and a bunch of other cool words. xx

Bijou

Veteran

Jenava, sorry to hear of your depression and anxiety. If you have never had short hair, then I think you have to try it! As someone who currently has long hair, I do enjoy wearing my hair short, but as I was forbidden from having long hair as a child, it is my rebellion to wear it long.

As a child, my mother decided that because I had fine hair that she would keep it short so that it would thicken up. Now apparently that does not work (you have the same number of hair follicles regardless of whether it is cut short or long), but Mum takes credit for the fact that I don't have thin hair now. My hair was so short I was often mistaken for a boy as a young child. I can still remember being about 3 years old and being told that I was a naughty little boy by an old man. I was only being naughty because he kept calling me a boy! I think this experience was the foundation of my love affair with dresses, you don't get called a boy when wearing a dress.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Jenava, thank you for sharing these thoughts -- this is a really interesting discussion, and I suspect many women have similar feelings of disconnect.

I tend to agree that a radical change in clothing style is not necessarily the path to addressing this issue. However, I do find your comments about your hair and about wanting to cut it short interesting. How about trying short hair (hey, it grows back! and then seeing where that takes you? Others here like Suz have found that a change in hair helps open up a new way of seeing themselves. I cut my hair very short in my late 20s at a very difficult time in my life (also coping with depression), and even though I kept it for a few years and it didn't stick as a permanent change to my style, it was a sort of emotionally freeing experience.

Lastly, I want to say I'm sorry you're struggling with depression and anxiety -- I know how that is, and it's very difficult. You have a lot on your plate! It sounds like you are taking proactive steps to keep things moving in a positive direction, and that is commendable. I'm sending hugs and good vibes your way.

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

Many great thoughts on here already and I think that giving yourself some time and care is really important when you are feeling depressed and anxious. I always say, make sure you are getting what you need nutritionally (low or inadequate iron, B12 and other vitamins can wreak havoc on your mental status and after having a baby, most women are quite low on these and other important nutrients).

I just wanted to add that I think your hair would look great short as I noticed how when you have it pulled back (like here) it looks really good on you:

http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....nim-outfit

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

Thank you all! I so appreciate all your thoughful comments. After more soul searching, and a haircut try-on app, I'm not totally certain about the hair. I am thinking about posting "this not that" outfits, as Shevia suggested, because for me, I think getting my thoughts circumscribed by reality will help.

And, I've reached some conclusion that the root of my feelings is due to being a girly girl in a work environment where it works against me. So I'm wanting to get rid of any whiff of bombshell in my look. And dress more casually. In my area, casual dress is actually much more well-regarded (yes, I work in tech. Sigh. I so wish my mother hadn't discouraged me from going into medicine, but the grass is always greener, isn't it?)

But, to be happy, I need some frill, and some color. And some elements of beauty that often read dressy. I might get that from jewelry. I got my ears pierced about 3 years ago and I find that dangly earrings always make me happy, esp. if they are high-quality and statement-making. But, clothing-wise I think I will be looking at very simple silhouettes, Possibly de-prioritizing too much figure flattery (will need to seriously think about how far I am willing to go, as I don't want to *feel* frumpy).

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

Texstyle - thank you for your concern about health. I actually did go to a naturopath about six months ago and got that bit squared away...(Barlene's fish out, BTW, is amazing.)

Janet, thank you. You are a darling, and I know you understand...hugs.

Bijou, I think I am going through a very delayed adolescent rebellion. LOL. Ah, mothers.

jenanded, aw. You're right. I should focus on the people who see the positives.

Greyscale, thank you, that's very validating.

Aziraphale, spot ON with the Phoebe example, although she always annoyed the crap out of me on the show....LOL. Imagine if she had dressed like Rachel! I know that clothes aren't the main thing when interacting with people, but I guess I'm operating on a feeling ATM, rather than fact. It's more a response to my experience than a desire to actually see a different outcome. (-:

Xtabay, I hope my proceeding posts addressed your questions. thanks for the article, very interesting and relevant.

I hope I've responded to everyone. I have READ everything and really appreciated everyone's contributions. It's made me happy that I posted because I feel like it's helped me get a little more grounded in my line of thinking.