I did want to flag another resource, which is workwear brands like Lafayette 148. I think because they are not catering to the fashion crowd, but rather the mix of women in the workplace, they have long had a broader range of sizes.

LisaP, what a cool shop! Care to share the website so we all have a cheat sheet for size inclusive manufacturers, or is that too close to home?

Gaylene, I didn’t catch that the first time around, so thanks for restating it. Target quality will have to do for my sister’s recovery, at least as far as gifts from me go, but the shoddy quality of larger sizes is bad news & sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Ginger, call it what you will—grey zone, cusp, break, whatever. It’s a darn pain for women who are close to it.

FI - I don’t know what you mean by “ too close to home “ .

LisaP, I asked you to provide a link to a store near you, run by someone you know, but recognize that could be too uncomfortable for you to do. Many of us prefer to keep some anonymity online, by separating our digital life from our analog world. In that case, giving info about a place where you live & know people would be more than you’d care to divulge.

Oh I see.. No, I have nothing to hide here.  It's not that great of a website, and the items tend to be NOT my style.  I'd only recommend it to a younger shopper .  I mentioned only as an example of what is working at retail. 

Salt away Preaching to the choir! You're absolutely right about the lack of larger sizes in anything but the inexpensive lines.

Thanks Lisa. Still great that she has set it up that way—and that there such good response!

Not too salty. Size discrimination is blatant in our society. I am glad to see companies like Cover Story. Those pants would look great on both you and Jenn.

It is a sad and frustrating situation that appears to be fiscally foolish as well. One step forward, one step backwards.

I have seen progress in activewear here with some fashion forward functional cool brands walking the talk. Less so in non- gear brands. And the brands that do offer a great range of styles are not especially fashion forward.

Whilst I understand businesses need to be profitable I also think there is an underserved market.

This always blows my mind ... On the one hand we hear about retail and fashion brands struggling; on the other, many seemingly choose to exclude a significant customer base. Ethics aside, the makes no business sense. So like others, I say, pass the salt!!

The irony of it all is how lucrative the under serviced market is. If the sizes were THERE across the designer brands and more - they would sell!!! Retailers would make money. What is the hold up?

When I was a specialist ladieswear retail buyer in the late '90s, I started a plus size department from scratch for the retailer, because I listened to what the customers wanted. Sizes went up to the equivalent of a 4XL, and across very dressy items as well as casual. Quite pricey too. Items flew off the shelves because of the dire need for that segment of the population. Management kept issuing more OTB for the department because I could not keep it adequately stocked. Things have not changed......

Angie, what are “ladieswear” and OTB?

Not Angie but ladieswear is clothing for women. OTB is open to buy I think, in other words funds you can use towards purchasing.

One can find answers to many questions using google …..

I’m glad you brought this up, Anna! I always appreciate your posts.

Thanks Cat2 for mentioning Lafayette 148. Just so happened to receive their Fall preview mailer today. Their blouses are classics for me.

I do wish they'd be more inclusive with their models though - would be nice to see a wider range of body types.

I enjoy universal standards collaborations. I'm wearing a pair of Ederm jeans from the collaboration and I have a blouse I love from the collaboration with Rodarte.

FashIntern, they did not remove the larger end. They added so now they have a complete range of sized.

I think some folks were upset by this expansion because they wanted to keep a few nice brands as larger sizes only as "payback" for all the brands that carry only smaller sizes? I don't get that mindset.

As a 12/14 I'm a total cusp size and the entire thing is just annoying because I don't fit in to either camp and really, what good is the demarcation at all? And if the average shopper is size 14 nowadays should most lines scale out from that size? I have no idea if this is the actual average size but I'm fairly sure it's not an 8 (at least in the states).

Retailers 'are what they eat because they sell the sizes the offer so they often have to be convinced they are missing a market that they don't already cater to.

Lol at the “ladieswear” definitions. It is obviously some kind of thing a certain sector of women are supposed to put on their bodies, but as the fuss over “missy” revealed, these terms can be loaded with all sorts of values that don’t show up in straight definitions.

Off topic: but dear Fashintern, you are currently the one who dresses most classically feminine (ladieswear) on the entire forum, in my opinion! : Dresses, minis, lace stockings, the gamut. And I love that! But that this term throws you off makes me giggle!

Yes to more diverse sizing! (And please join in more often Annagybe, I'd love to see your stylish self!)

Is that what it means? Stereotypically feminine attire?

Annagybe, I second Synne’s request for more WIWs from you—you’ve got some fun looks!

Good grief . The term ladieswear signifies nothing other than a retail / wholesale category . Clothing for women . No subversive meaning here .

So all women’s clothes, no emphasis on “lady”?

Ladieswear is just a term (mainly used in retail business) for women’s clothing. Nothing more. Google agrees.

Lol re ladieswear …back in the early 90s i planned a men’s business for the 1st time…in our tops category we had 2 sub categories, plain and fancy’s…at that time fancy was the term retailers and manufactures were using for men’s patterned shirts…it made me laugh then and i still laugh about it now…

Kkards, “fancy” is a good word for it, lol.
Strange to realize that the clothing industry assumes that all of us should be ladies, and would embed that in a term to cover all women! Most of what I’ve seen of feminism relating to attire is about the designs of items—tight things restricting movement, spiky heels, etc—but I’m beginning to realize how much of a problem the language of the industry is as well.

Are woman and lady not synonyms? Does lady mean "old lady" or "traditionally feminine" or something more loaded and specific? Interesting.

Synne, Come to think of it, I sometimes see “Ladies” sign on washrooms in restaurants. Am I a lady enough to go in? LOL
Sorry, this is completely off topic. My apologies!

Synne, I think you know this already, given your comment earlier, but here you go. https://helloclue.com/articles.....-word-lady

Irina, the article I just linked does mention “ladies room” as a euphemism for toilet, but doesn’t touch on the point you made—the refinement suggested by “ladies” does indeed point to there being other women who are lesser.

Not sure annagybe opted in to this detour on her thread though, so maybe anyone wanting to discuss it further could start a new thread. One connection to this thread, though, is that the “refinement” indicated by the term “ladies” frequently includes taking up less space—crossing your legs, wearing tight skirts & shoes that make it hard to take big steps, speaking loudly, etc, so larger women might be subject to prejudicial glances when the question of being ladylike comes up. Instead of including more people in this nonsense, I’d prefer to get rid of the term “lady” altogether.

No, Fash, I was not aware of this. To me it will never be an insult to be called a lady (on the contrary, I wish!!!), and I didn't mean it like that in my previous comment directed at you. I meant that you dress very feminine, femme, girly. Or like a lady (in my definition of the word). Thanks for the article, will read later. After skimming through just now quickly, I gotta say, "hey, watch it MISTER!", is a phrase I hear used in school all the time by teachers. (The article argues that there is no equivalent to "listen here young lady!".)

I brought up the term “ladieswear specialist buyer” because that was my exact profession 20 years ago! So I will reiterate what others have said: it means nothing more than what women would wear. You can interpret women as fluidly as you like. No alternative meanings or judgements intended with lady. The same way in Dutch “dames kleding” means the same thing. Some retailers call ladieswear “womenswear”.

OTB means “open to buy” which is a budget that buyers spend in order to select merchandise for said retailer.

Let’s please not derail Anna’s important thread further. Back to the topic