Short waisted and figure 8: my mind is still mulling and overthinking.

Ket

Recently, I asked if a deep rise meant a short waist. Short answer (no pun intended) based on all of your amazing replies: no, no it sure doesn’t.

The post helped me realize proportion generalities that abound in the style world don’t do me (us) justice.

What the post didn’t ultimately help me answer is if I’m short waisted and how that works for me when dressing. I haven’t begun sewing yet-which I feel would maybe answer some of my question. (The house is still torn apart and the only place to sew is the only place to pile the coats. I can’t tell if I’m making up excuses or if it’s truly the reality of the situation. Going with the latter.)

High rises tend to be mid rise on me unless they’re truly high rise—thankfully high rises lately have been actual high rises. Mid rises usually hit 1-2 inches below my belly button, and kind of cut through my hip shelf.

I need long cuts in blouses and long torso one-piece swimsuits. But blouses sometimes can have the waistline too high on me, where it looks a bit off. This could be due to my long upper back/shoulder area though. (I have to let bra straps all the way out.)

My legs aren’t really long compared to friends of mine with classic short torso, long legs proportions or silhouettes. I’m 5’10.5 and wear a 32” inseam easily. 34 with heels. Beyond that I don’t feel I have shockingly long legs, though my knee to ankle is very slender and average to long.

Measured from the side of my torso, there’s all of three inches between my bottom rib and top of hip shelf. Which seems kind of short waisted to me? I tried Imogene’s hand trick. I honestly felt confused by it due to high hip shelf and where my waist creases when bending over—which is a good couple inches above my navel.

I was always told I had a long torso and had a lot of room especially when I was pregnant. I interpreted that as a longer waist. I wonder now if that’s been true. and I’m wondering if my long rise and deep and prominent pelvis have only made it look like I’m a long torso when in fact… I’m deep-long rise, short to average waist.

And by the way: I by no means expect anyone to have any answers. I’m probably way over thinking it I just want to understand what works for dressing myself.

Probably the biggest help I’ve found to date is stumbling across the figure 8 body shape earlier this month. It intuitively clicked for me the second I saw the photos! Dressing as a true or pure hourglass has never worked well for me. (To be fair, I don’t know if I’ve accurately analyzed my clothes and outfits over the years.) Some of it works, such as wrap tops and dresses. The rest does not. I look very wide in boot cut and flare pant lines. Every single time I try, and especially when at heavier weights They never really balance my hips and give me a long line unless paired with very high heels. I intuitively prefer most items to taper in at narrow points on my body: wrists, waist, knees, ankles. Empire waist is not good on me. Fit and flare works as a peplum but not as a skirt/dress. My pencil skirts need tapered in at the knees or I look kind of wide and dowdy. I saw it again with my latest pencil skirt post; the skirt was way better on me when the bottom tapered in at the knee. I haven’t tried a tulip skirt shape yet, but I have a feeling it would be good.

Finding that bit of info was a revelation. I actually purchased the image consultant’s webinar on it—the concept resonated that much. (Hoping to listen this weekend!) Her list of what isn’t best on figure 8 shapes was also a big uh-huh. There are some exceptions. And to be fair, a front/semi/French tuck has allowed me to wear a lot of wide, boxier style tops. And I own a 70s A-line skirt that somehow really works for me. So I feel the rules can always be bent. With styling and attitude, anyone can wear just about anything.

I’m not sharing any of this as a dressing rules thing. More just a wow… so that’s why I always gravitate towards X and feel uncomfortable in Y. As in: That’s why the peplum jacket rescued the boxy straight sack dress and made it suddenly work for me. Or why I like joggers and girlfriend/boyfriend jeans and French cuffed all my wide leg pants. I also wear a longer mine well, so I’m certainly not removing maxi skirt lengths from my wardrobe. Something else I see in the figure 8 examples are sharper necklines and shaped shoulders. I’m noticing how sharper necklines are better for me compared to rounded necklines, especially is the item os boxy or wide. ( I want to apply that more to my knitting if possible.)

Anyway… long ramblings from me. Thank you for listening. :}

I’ve still found the most help posting here, receiving your gracious feedback, and feeling out what truly is best on me from photos and feel. But sometimes my mind starts mulling and away I go…

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3 months ago

Dressing

11 replies

Latest reply was from Ket

Anonymous

I'm an 8 shape, but with wide shoulders from swimming, and much shorter than you. I do love wide pants to balance the shoulders, but generally wear them with heels, and much better in full length. Flared skirts work if in a thin fabric, and maxi length to balance volume, and maxi column skirts or tapered skirts are perfect.

3 months ago

Ket

Veteran

suntiger, I didn't realize you were a figure 8! That's helpful to know. I actually can handle a little width with pants, but they need to have the right fit in the hips. And heels still help. I had one pair of wide leg pants -- from J. Crew. They gently widened from the hips, almost like an A-line skirt without being flares. I've never found anything else like them and sadly, don't own that pair anymore.

I will have to try a maxi column skirt. I've never gotten to try one of those yet. I also haven't tried flared maxi length skirts. You're giving me some yummy things to try on and search for!

3 months ago

Jonesy

Veteran

I am roughly 5'10" and have a high hip shelf (figure 8) myself, so I can relate to your post! It sounds like you are short-waisted to me, though I've typically seen that measured from bottom of bustline to natural waist, and you are talking about ribs and hip shelves, so I'm not sure how that translates :). My understanding is that if you think about your torso as consisting of the area below your bustline to your crotch point, you have two key "lengths" to consider: your waistedness (from right under your bustline to your natural waist, or where it curves in, even a tiny bit), and your rise (from your natural waist to your crotch point). So, for sure, someone could be very shortwaisted but have a very long rise, which sounds like it's the case for you (and me too).

3 months ago

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I'm short waisted and have a long rise, too. Though unlike you and Jonesy, i am short overall. I wouldn't call myself an 8 shape, though. At the same time, some of the same shapes flatter me as you, despite our other differences. A tapered skirt is (mostly) better than an straight skirt or an A line but the right A-line can work well. (As you say, it's all n the details of styling and fabrication.) Tapered pants work well -- better to my eye than bootcuts, though I can and do wear those with a bit of a heel -- and wide legs do work on me if loose all the way down. Empire waist is also not good on me. Interesting, no? How so many body shape/ proportion variables can differ but some constants remain.

Jonesy is an Inverted triangle or V shape, I believe. I'm probably somewhere between an I and an A (My shoulders and hips are very close in width but my legs appear shorter/ heavier than other parts of my body.

3 months ago

Ket

Veteran

Jonesy, no one has ever explained torso lengths like that to me. So thank you! It really, really helps me understand it all. Having read that, I do have a short or shorter waist, with a very deep/long rise and very prominent and high hip shelf. And an athletic upper body. Once I was complaining about my hips to a friend; she replied that without my hips, my shoulders would make me look like a linebacker. (Haha! So gentle to the ego...) And it's very true.

Suz, it's so helpful to hear how things work for you! It is interesting. It sounds like we are similar even if we aren't exactly the same. I have heavier thighs unless very lean and in shape, and my legs look a bit shorter. Definitely not legs for days. I actually need to try a loose wide leg pant and see if that works. I will do that when I find some and see what you think.

I no longer own this dress. (It was just too large and felt sloppy to wear, though I loved the vibe of it so much!) The waist line on it? It's hitting me at my true waistline. I had completely forgotten about this dress and photo. It's eye opening to see my hip shelf and short waist.

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3 months ago

Kate

Veteran

Like you, I have a long torso with a long rise. A 12-inch rise is my sweet spot but I have many pants with a rise of 13.5 inches that I enjoy wearing. I have a normal waist line, using the hand width’s method. The distance from just under my bustline to where my waist starts to curve in is just a tictch less than 2.5 hand widths.

I’m a good bit shorter than you at 5’8, and consider I have normal length legs. My inseam is 32.

I’m not an 8 shape, as my figure is pretty straight from stem to stern. I do have broad shoulders.

Body shape is fascinating!

3 months ago

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Ket, that's such a gorgeous dress on you! Love the colour and the cut! Works beautifully. Too bad it is gone but i hope you find a similar one!

3 months ago

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Ket, by your descriptions, you are long in the rise and shorter in the waist. Jonesy explained it perfectly

YOU ARE KILLER GORGEOUS IN THAT DRESS!

3 months ago

Ket

Veteran

Kate, I just love comparing how we are all different yet similar. It is fascinating, indeed!I did the hand measurement again. I come up at 1.5 hands width to where my waist just starts to curve in. So definitely shorter in the waist.

Oh thank you, Suz!!! I so appreciate your compliment and encouragement <3 I am hoping to find it in a smaller size from a reseller. I am sure it's out there somewhere. Old Navy is usually plentiful.

Angie, thank you for confirming it. I have have been told I was a long torso for so long and interpreted that as long waisted. So it's taken some time to understand how I can be short waisted. Thank you for the amazing lovely compliment!! (IN ALL CAPS! Angie's blessings when it's caps! ) You're the best <3

3 months ago

Ginger

Veteran

Interesting data points. Here's how I interpret those (which is not a rule):

mid rise hits through hip shelf = you have a (very) high rise
inseam 32" with flats = regular length legs = at 5'10.5", your height is in the torso
need long cuts in blouses = long waist
blouse waistline often too high = long waist
letting bra straps out all the way = long waist OR low bust
3" between lowest rip and hip bone = short to medium waist

Interesting that I differ from Jonesy and Angie, since by this criteria your waist is long. It may be since your torso is extra long, what is "short waisted" for you is still "long waisted" by industry dress measurements. Proportions are individual, dress standards are (more or less) standardized.

Technically the torso = waist (top half) + rise (bottom half).
The rib-hip gap isn't necessarily an indicator of how short or long the waist is, but it tends to correlate. Mine is 1.5", definitely short.

~~~~~~ Break!

I think what you're trying to articulate is your personal variations on a major body archetype. (Following are MY musings and overthinkings, since I've traveled much the same road myself.)

I believe that in general, there are two archetypes (or maybe ends of the spectrum) for our bodies. At one end is the long-waisted type, with a longer rib-hip gap (say around 5"). This type tends to be slimmer and shorter in the hip/rise and may have relatively shorter legs; shoulders tend to balance the hip or be wider, and there may not be much waist definition. At the other end is the short-waisted-type, with a shorter rib-hip gap, say 2" or so. This type tends to have a wider and longer hip, longer legs, and fairly well-defined waist. Shoulders can be even or narrow. (These are generalizations and of course with human variation, there's a lot of scope between these two.)

The "model type" is usually long-waisted. That's all we see on runways, dress mannequins, in fashion magazines, on websites, and even in non-fashion sources, general TV, advertisements, even stock photos. I think this has unconsciously shaped our perceptions of how women should look. Generally slender overall, or at least not "exaggerated" anywhere, not too much curve.

Put the two types side by side, and the short-waisted type looks "off." The waist is too high. The hip is too wide, too high. The top looks squat. The legs can look too long. The shoulders disappear. The waist looks exaggerated, almost cartoonish.

This is how MY eye was trained. And I never absorbed a lot of fashion marketing. I didn't read magazines or websites or even blogs. But I shopped and there are so many things that aren't even an option for me. And I watched TV and movies and saw ads and billboards. It wasn't a matter of just being skinny. Lots of women around me wore lots of different clothes that I couldn't, and they weren't necessarily tall or skinny at all. But they weren't like me.

When I learned about the "model type" as loosely defined by that waist length, though, it clicked. My body wasn't wrong, even though I could stand to lose 20 pounds. The type is from bone structure and that won't ever change. And it wasn't at all the same bone structure that is predominantly chosen for modeling.

~~~~~~~ Another break!

By the reasoning above, you blend the spectrum together nicely! Your torso is long but since your legs really aren't, your waist isn't super high from the ground in relation to your height. Your upper half and bottom half are well-balanced overall. Model types aren't usually Figure 8's because they're so slender otherwise, but it's perfect for you. It makes your waist look exaggerated without even trying, but it does show that balance.

FWIW, while we share a lot, I think I'm more of a Figure X with a wider lower part. Maybe an upside down Y. Peplums are awful on me! I have a hard time defining my shoulders, too, though in theory it would balance the hip; maybe it would make my top look wider and shorter overall. I know I'm not an 8, and it makes sense because our particular proportions are not the same. It's fascinating, and I hope validating to you, to see how the Figure 8 advice resonates with you.

3 months ago

Ket

Veteran

Ginger, you are just a peach! I can't believe how you broke this all down. <3 Thank you for this.

As a side note -- I measured rib to hip. I had guesstimated 3 inches. Mine is actually 2 inches. SO... Definitely short waisted. Though not as short as you.

You brought up some really good and interesting points. I never considered low bust. I didn't even know it was a thing! So that's really helpful.

I do very much agree that I have a long torso with a short waist. That just makes a lot of sense. Basically, most of the length in my long torso is taken up by my very high rise and possibly low bust. (And yes, it is very high, haha!) I did Imogen's waist measuring with hands, which is different from rib to hip. With that method, I am definitely short waisted.

I have subconsciously noted the model body type but I never really gave it much thought. So all that you explained makes a ton of sense and put it into words. I remember when J. Crew introduced their very long waisted models in the early 2000s, along with their "Toothpick" style jean. I never could fit into those style jeans. That's a rather extreme example, of course. But your description and explanation really remind me of that period. As I've studied vintage fashion, I feel like the long waisted model type has really been used since the 1950s. I agree our perceptions have been affected by it.

Also...bone structure is really big. We perceive it and talk about it in terms of proportion. But so much of it seems like it's bone structure.

I know for myself, my bone structure makes my waist super tiny looking. In my body building days, I trained with a whole community of ladies. (I never got into competing, just wasn't me but I loved the community I was in.) They marveled at my small waist and well... it's mostly due to my prominent, wide hip shelf. Almost no one else had a prominent hip shelf except me. Sure, I tend toward a tiny waist. BUT the hip shelf definitely exaggerates it. I.still relate most or more to 40s and 50s actresses and now I know it's partly due to many having a figure 8 shape, which is easier for me to relate to when dressing.

All of this is very validating -- especially hearing that peplums aren't good on you. I can definitely see you being a figure X or upside down Y (Or an A?) They've always felt good on me. My sister has sometimes commented that she thinks they make me look wider. But I disagree. There's something balancing about them to me.

Thank you for sharing and hashing this all out <3 <3 <3 xo

3 months ago

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