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Share your favorite proportion pearls of wisdom

Staysfit

Veteran

My recent WIW post turned into an outfit lab and an excellent lesson from Suz about Shoulder-Neck Point, and multiple people shared excellent examples of how this works differently for them, plus they shared additional pearls of wisdom that they have learned about how to dress for their body proportions. I thought it would be a good idea to pull this part of the conversation out from my WIW post so everyone could contribute.

Please share one or more of your most helpful proportion pearls of wisdom.

General

69 replies

Latest reply was from Suz

Staysfit

Veteran

I will start. Today I learned about Shoulder - Neck point and how with a long giraffe like neck it's important to consider not only a high neckline, but the shoulder neck point, which should be covered. The other key is that either the neckline needs to have structure, or the shoulder line, but both cannot be drapery or it is too much drape for someone with my type of build.

I went back and looked at my pics and could immediately see why some of the outfits I was unhappy with were not working. The necklines were wrong.

I give credit to Suz, who learned from Angie. I thank you both!

Anonymous

Well, THAT was interesting. In the 5minutes since you posted this - I had to click back to your WIW from the other day, read Suz's comments, click back to the original SNP post from 3 years ago and try to figure out what that was all about. The wonder of the internet. I've never heard of nor considered this before, and am not entirely sure I get it until I see pictures with arrows:) I need visuals, like a 4 year old. But, like I said, all very interesting as much of this applies to me too. I have never really assessed my neck one way or another, but have the short hair, some sort of visible neck, defined and daintier build (when I'm at a certain lower weight) ,a bonier collarbone area, and this neckline thing is interesting.

Who knew? I need a whole new Angie post with pictures on this one.

Sal

Veteran

Tucking in of tops is not the easiest look for shortwaisted people to carry off. Especially if you have a bust!

It is worsened if the colour contrast between the top and bottom is strong. ie Black skirt, white shirt.

It makes the torso look crowded and tends to be unflattering around the tummy.

It is easier to wear an untucked top, or to wear a matching top and skirt/pants.

I tend to only look for tops that can be worn untucked. I do tuck or semi tuck a fine flowy top into mid-lower rises on rare occasions and get the proportions right.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Thanks, Staysfit, but the credit all goes to Angie and ClearlyClaire. I was an eager student at their school of proportion!

One little tidbit shared by Anne (from Oz) that has stayed with me from my early days on the forum. I wondered why I was seldom happy with my proportions in cropped pants/clamdiggers, whereas I do like the look of a skirt the same length on me.

Anne pointed out that a skirt hides the rise, giving the illusion of longer legs. The rise is visible in pants, so we view the legs as shorter. In someone like me with a long rise and shorter legs, this is even more apparent, especially if I am not wearing some kind of a heel. Which, come to think of it, I do wear more often with a skirt. So skirts benefit twice in the flattery department on a body type like mine.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Another big lightbulb moment: The semi tuck. Tucked in front (elongates the leg, allowing me to wear lower rise pants) and left draping on the sides (which creates a nice curve to hint at the waist and emphasize my relatively slender hips). It's brilliant.

Cococat

Veteran

This is gold! I have nothing to contribute but I'm all ears!

Staysfit

Veteran

Ha ha Suz, we really might be twins of different height. I have the long rise short leg issue also. It may not show up so much because I'm tall, but I really do look my best in a dress or skirt. I feel my best in my straight leg jeans.

Lisap, if I were more savvy, I would know how to cut and paste the links using my iPad, but I don't. Sorry you had to do all that hunting. I was worried it would be unclear, and it was. The Staysfit household is having some computer issues at the moment, so if I can figure out how to add the links I will.

Gaylene

Veteran

Broad shoulders can wear bateau, or boat, necklines as long as the neckline stops at the collarbone so there is a defined shoulder seam between the neck and the top of the armhole AND the armhole is cut high AND the shoulder seam stops at the top of the shoulder so it doesn't fall on the sleeve. A narrow sleeve also helps as does a bit of a dip in the neckline so the tops of my collarbone just peek out. For me, if those critical points are in place, the overall effect is flattering, even if the top is sporting horizontal stripes, like a mariner. A wide, shoulder-to-shoulder boat neck with a non-existent shoulder seam, a dropped armhole, and wide sleeves is so comical on me even SAs can't stop giggling. I look like the Amazing Hulk AFTER he has turned green and has ripped out of his shirt.

A good mariner is a HEWI for me, but I love the look enough to search through a lot of duds to find my version.

Anonymous

Staysfit - no, no , I got all of the links and connections, and was simply marvelling at how quickly we can get from one point to another in a conversation so easily and quickly now!

Staysfit

Veteran

Ok, good! It's sometimes hard to tell context when reading!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Team Longest Giraffe Neck Of Them All, which is accentuated by my very short hair, narrow shoulder line, and regular size bust. I MUST have structure at my shoulder neck point. It's non-negotiable.

Suz ans Anne, unless I am misunderstanding you, I disagree about a visible rise shortening the leg line. It LENGTHENS the leg line - especially with high waisted pants - which is my next favourite tip. Tuck or semi tuck your top to lengthen the leg line from the hips up. It's an AMAZING visual tool - especially when you have shorter legs and a longer torso.

Wear flared pant lengths looooooooonnnngggggg - skimming the surface of the ground - with heels for a very elegant leg line.

Ankle pants were made for ankle stap footwear, (and high vamped footwear). The leg shortening effect disappears when you close the gap.

Gaylene

Veteran

Whew, thanks, Angie for not making me think I was delusional in thinking that semi-tuck was working to help me re-adjust my long torso and short legs into something more proportional.

Suz, I'm wondering if your rise-pant length issue isn't more about chopping the below waist part of our long rise/short legs into fours instead of threes--sort of Rise=1/4, Crotch to Hem= 2/4, and Hem to Ankle=1/4. Those proportions aren't exactly the so-called Golden Mean. A skirt, on the other hand, goes Waist to Hem=2/3 and Hem to Ankle= 1/3-- or there abouts--making it closer to the Golden Mean. I suspect that's why skirt lengths are so critical on short legs; if they are even an inch or two too long, we get stuck back into the 3/4 and 1/4 look. Short legs with athletic calves don't give you much room to mess around with lengths, if you want even a modicum of flattery below the waist.

ETA: Now I'm wondering if it wasn't the rise that caused you grief with your skirted leggings. Could a long rise been the reason for the "whoa, way too much of a mini-skirt" reaction? Maybe it was the 1/4 skirt, 3/4 legging effect? On someone with a shorter rise, the effect might have been more 1/3 skirt, 2/3 legging. Short, but not ultra short?

This proportion thing is fascinating, but I think I've a lot to learn so thanks StaysFit for starting this thread.

Sal

Veteran

I am interested in the skirts versus pants/shorts debate. I am the opposite to Suz because I am

short waisted, average rise (I think), and long legged with a Figure 8 type shape. I am curvy but not overweight IMHO (it is hard putting yourself out there).

I feel I look good in
- Knee length dresses and skirts (especially just below the knee) in pencil, full skirted and some A line styles.

I feel I look thick legged in
- Knee length shorts/capris of all shapes

I can wear capri or ankle pants as long as they are not mid calf, lower calf to ankle is fine in most cases.

Aziraphale

Veteran

Oooh, this is an excellent thread. I am reading the tips with interest. Thanks for starting it, Staysfit!

Lol @Angie: Team Longest Giraffe Neck Of Them All. I see long necks as elegant. I agree with you about the semi-tuck lengthening the leg line. It absolutely does. It's also flattering because it lengthens the leg line without shortening the torso. I'm short everywhere, so while I DO want longer-looking legs (makes me look taller), I can't fully tuck in my top without making my torso look disproportionally short. This effect is exacerbated by the fact that my boobs are medium, not tiny. Tucked-in tops tend to make them look bigger than they are.

I have some tips for other petite gals (besides the front semi-tuck):

-- wearing tops and bottoms of a similar colour (or value) will make you look taller and slimmer. A light top and dark bottom will cut you in half.

-- Clothes that are too "oversized" or drapey can make you look really short. A little drapey-ness can work though.

-- a short neck looks better with v-necks or open necklines. A shirt with the top few buttons undone works the same way

-- heels, even small ones, usually make proportions better. Flat shoes work best with either quite a short skirt, or else full-length, narrow-ish pants. Ankle pants with very flat shoes looks terrible on petite women. Only wear that combination if you want to look like Frodo Baggins.

-- v-necks are magic for making your bust appear less full (not just for petites).

Ledonna N.

Veteran

Pearl of wisdom:

Wide shoulders defined waist especially. Tailored is best for almost petite not quite average. Visual of porpotions in play.

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Jaime

(website)

Veteran

Excellent thread. As a short person with a shortish neck, I relate to a lot of Aziraphale's tips. I have learned how much a diagonal drape on a top helps bring a relatively larger top in better proportion.

Greyscale

Veteran

I am also on Team Giraffe Neck but with broad shoulders and a medium bust. On myself, I avoid standard crew neck tees in favor of slightly larger neck openings. V necks are ok, but I think I look best in very wide, deep Vs, like in this:
http://monochrome.lookfab.com/.....crazypants
Regular V necks feel out of proportion with my shoulder width.

But I'm not sure how much of that is personal preference vs useful proportion ideas.

Another beginner-level rule: with an A-line or flared skirt, or really any skirt, the worst top is something un-fitted that hits at low hip (generally the widest point). It makes you into a wide rectangle with the curve of the skirt in the wrong place. I'm happy to break that rule for the right look, but it needs to be done cautiously.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Angie, I agree that a long rise on the pants will help lengthen the leg line. I am sorry I wasn't clear. And I am all for wearing higher waists and tucking or semi-tucking into pants (or skirts for that matter). That definitely lengthens the leg line visually!

What I mean is that in someone of my proportions -- long rise, shorter legs -- the proportions are more obviously "off" when wearing clams or cropped pants as opposed to skirts -- in precisely the way that Gaylene describes. Especially if the pants are low rise. As Gaylene says, the visible rise on the pant seems to chop the wearer into fourths almost. It's not as obvious with a skirt. But the length of the skirt really matters.

It might also have to do with the calf shape and length. (Mine are short relative to my thighs). So I have a long rise, "normal" length thighs for my height, but short calves for my height. If I wear low rise clamdiggers and flats, or really any type of cropped pant, it just looks "off" to my eye. I do not feel this way about other people -- it has to do with my own personal proportions. If I wear knee length shorts it looks better to my eye, and better still if I have a bit of a wedge sandal.

Joy

Veteran

Staysfit, this is a great idea for a thread. I also find that I need structure at the shoulder-neck point, although my neck is average. It just helps tops work over my small bust. Armholes need to be high and not too wide also. Otherwise I look sloppy, boxy and heavier than I am.
If you have a short waist, it helps to match or blend belts to your top instead of your bottom piece.
Layers of different lengths and diagonal lines can camouflage apple-shaped middles. Try a semi-tuck, either in front or on the side.
If you have thin legs, a-line and full skirts will just emphasize this, especially if below the knees.

Diana

Veteran

Team Short Everything Above the Waist here. (I am feeling lonely right now! Surely I must have some company.). What I've learned is that large things above the waist (wide belts, big statement necklaces, high popped collars) don't work because there is nowhere to put them. The belt hits my rib cage, the necklace hits my boobs, the collar hits my head.

Also, as a pear, shoulder structure is my friend. I like subtle shoulder pads, grown on sleeves, and set in shoulder seams because they strengthen my shoulder line and balance out my wider bottom half.

And oh yes, as a super short necked person I almost always keep my shoulder neck point and collarbones uncovered. I look (and feel!) like I'm being strangled by my collars otherwise.

rachylou

Veteran

Team short-waisted, wide-waisted, relatively long legged reporting for duty. Have no idea what my body type is. I don't have a va-va-voom body, but neither do I have a willowy one.

...Excellent thread, btw. I have to study the shoulder-neck point concept more. I think I look terrible in v-necks, but feel it's not about my neck as much as it's about my short torso. Not enough real estate between neck and waist.

Don't think I'm no-neck, but I need my button down shirts to be blouses with soft collars. A starched, stand up collar is frumpifying. But again, I'm not sure it's a matter of neck length so much as bust-torso issues. If I'm gonna do a collared button down shirt-shirt, it has to be the kind your friendly neighborhood temp receptionist wears... a little on the too sexy side, with princess seams and spandex.

Also, being not tall and willowy, but wide and shrimpy (even if not technically fat or that short), it helps if my skirts taper or mermaid out a bit...

Mm, yeah, no. Not a professional stylist here by any stretch... those were some darn inarticulate 'pearls'... hehe

Staysfit

Veteran

These are excellent pearls everyone! Thanks for the contributions so far.

This isn't exactly a proportion pearl, but one of the best things I did a few years ago was to go to a fine lingere store and get measured properly for a bra. It has made a big difference in fit and how I look in clothes.

High necklines mixed with no sleeves always make my chest appear larger and my waist smaller. I am not sure how it works, but it does.

On a frame like mine, long, lean, and rectangular but with muscular legs that are larger in proportion to the rest of me, not longer: Straight leg jeans and slacks, sheath dresses and pencil skirts are always winners. A - line, or fit and flare skirts are tricky and depend heavily on the material and cut. If they are not too poofy, they could work. If a skirt flares, but is fitted around the hip, it can work. I need that structure at that point.

I look best in clothing that indicates my waist is existent. If clothes are too baggy, and bypass my waist, they don't work well. However, belts at my waist do not seem very flattering.

Style Fan

Veteran

Excellent thread Staysfit. Thank you for starting it. I am a very visual person and I love geometry so a diagram would be helpful. I understand the golden mean but I need a picture.

Angie I am sure my neck is longer than yours. My hair hides it.

My lessons have been:

I look best with structure on top but openness at my neck. It is best to have a v at my throat to show the start of my chest. I do not know why. It might be because my face is squarish so this provides length. I also have puny shoulders in comparison to my hips. My torso is long but mini in width. My bust is average. My hips are the largest part of my body. My waist is smaller than my hips.

My toppers look best on the short side. Probably ending at the waist or high hip.

My tops look best tucked in or ending at high hip. I don't look that great in fluid tops.

I have a pear shaped body (I think). I do not know if I have short legs or average length legs. My torso is longish but I am taller than average. I measured myself according to Imogen Lamport's scale and my torso is long but my legs are average. In Yoga people tell me my legs are long. I think they are average length.

Given the above about my legs (confusing to me) I tend to stay away from pants that are between below the knee to above ankle. I will wear cropped ankle length pants with high vamped footwear and a tucked in top. (Thank you Angie for the excellent advice)

I look best in skirts that are above the knee. I know. Shocking. And I am almost 60. If skirts cover my knees I look okay but I have my father's calves which looked great on him. I would prefer to show my knees and beginning of my thighs. I notice a lot of other women on the forum struggle with this issue. I found my sweet spot is above the knee.

Style Fan

Veteran

Suz I echo your advice about getting fitted professionally for a bra. It makes a huge difference. I get fitted every year.

kkards

Veteran

you can be short but not petite----ie "regular" sized pants fit way better than petites, but of course will probably need to be hemmed.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

I have a similar build to Kiwigal -- short torso, long legs, and a lot of curve. Like she and Diana note, tucked high waists are rarelt good on us. I do, however, love the semi-tuck. It helps hint at my smaller waist and soften the curve from waist to lower thigh.

It's funny, I feel like it's easier for me to wear shorts above the knee than skirts above the knee, and it makes me wonder about that point Suz made about being able to see the length of the leg (which for me is good because I have thick thighs and lengthening them visually can help them look a little nicer). I just always figured that short skirts don't work well on me because it's a wide visual block of material right across the widest part of me.

I've also learned that asymmetrical gems are brilliant for camouflaging the width of my lower half. Angled hems create a more vertical line, rather than chopping my body up horizontally.

cjh

(website)

Veteran

Some things I pay attention to when shopping, regarding necklines, have more to do with my face shape, as my shoulders are pretty average as to slope and width in relation to the rest of me. I have a round face and high round necklines are not as flattering as lower rounded necklines, modified boat necks, and moderate vnecks.

But my chest above the bust is shortish, I have lots of skin tags and moles on my lower chest/upper bust, and there is space between my breasts which couldn't be called cleavage in the commonly understood meaning. These factors all call for careful selection of necklines in the "how low do you go" detail.

I've noticed the round face/open or vneck vs. oval face/higher or turtleneck preferences on myself and my daughters, but not often on others. I also think hairstyle as it accentuates or modifies face shape can be a factor.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I’m loving this thread. Thanks, Staysfit.

Suz, NOW I get it. Thanks for chiming back in and explaining. Yes. I see your point about a proportionally LONG rise. I think as you mentioned, calf shape has a lot to do with it too. Wearing clams a little longer - like short ankle pants - is a solution.

Aziraphale, those are excellent points. (Just for the record, my neck is my favourite body part. I’m rocking on).

Gaylene, those are excellent points on how to dress a broad shoulder line.

Diana, you are bang on the money with your tips on a short torso.

Ledonna, you look fab in a defined waist. That look works less well for an apple shaped body type though.

Style Fan, I’ll give you a run for your money on the length of your neck (Jackie and unfrumped too). Your long hair instantly gives your long neck structure. It helps a lot actually - and because of that - you don’t need to be as fussy with creating structure on the shoulder neck point.

Janet, very good point about diagonal lines.

cjh, I wonder if your preference for lower necklines is because of the length of your neck.

Elizabeth P

Veteran

This is an excellent thread. Hearing how others analyze themselves is also a good learning tool.

I find it interesting that Suz and I need the exact opposite in necklines, yet we share a few of the same tops! My guess is that it's not just the cut, but how the fabric adapts itself to your body. For example I generally avoid boat necks, yet some of them actually drape in the front, so it's more of a wide "v", which I can handle.

For necklines, I look for scoop necks, or deep wide v's. Crews are death... there's just too much real estate between my shoulders, neck and chest, it needs to be broken up. Scarves and necklaces can do the trick here on winter attire, but I do need to be more careful in the summer.

Agreeing totally with Janet on the benefits of assymetry. The semi-tuck does the same thing, prevents a horizontal line just at the wrong spot. I also like the semi tuck to hint at a waist. If I tuck things in, I look like a big square as my neck to waist measurement is similar to my shoulder width measurement. Semi tuck somewhat eliminates this.

Raglan sleeves are also on my avoid list... they do NOTHING for my shoulders except make me look like a linebacker. I've found the odd exception, but few and far between.

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