Reflection on sizing (long): There is no spoon - YouLookFab Forum

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Reflection on sizing (long): There is no spoon

April

Veteran

First, if my spoon reference makes no sense to you, check out this clip from The Matrix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzm8kTIj_0M

Second, I just wanted to say that I have only recently begun to fully grasp something that I have heard over and over from Angie, from Stacy and Clinton (don't you miss What Not to Wear?), from Tim Gunn, etc. And that is that, what the size label says has become all but irrelevant.

The fact that you are a 00 in Ann Taylor trousers (or wherever) and a 2 at J Crew (or wherever) means absolutely nothing. Sizing has gotten so erratic, and overseas production so unreliable, that the numbers are now meaningless. Snip the size label or black it out with a sharpie if the number gets on your nerves. And let's be honest, we only worry about such things when we feel like the number is too big. Has anyone ever blacked out a size because they thought it was too tiny?

Here's what brought this home to me recently. Remember that awesome button skirt with the faux leather waistband from Akris Punto ? The smallest size they had when I ordered it was a 2, which would normally be too large for me in a skirt since I have narrow hips. (Before you decide that narrow hips are a good problem to have, let me say that I also have NO WAIST WHATSOEVER. A skirt that fits me in the hips is usually too tight in the waist.)

Anyway, the 2 arrived and instead of being too big, it is suck-it-in tight everywhere. I can zip it, but just barely. I was feeling crestfallen, and then I checked and found that they had a 4 available. A 4, among my 00s?

Who cares? I *love* the skirt, and if the 4 fits more comfortably, I'm keeping it. This may have been a problem with the manufacturing, that a 2 came out smaller than a lot of 00s, and that is why it was 60% off, or maybe this brand runs really small. Not sure, but it doesn't matter.

If you read reviews online, you know that people can be insane on this topic. I can't tell you how many reviews I've read where someone said, "I love this item more than life itself, but it was too tight and so it's going back and I'm really sad." I always want to say, if you love it that much, why not just accept that it runs small and try the next largest size?

If it fits you and looks good, ignore the size and put it in your closet! There is no spoon.

Dressing

21 replies

Latest reply was from Style Fan

milehighstyle (Linda)

Veteran

Totally agree, April. One day I bought 3 different pairs of pants at BR. One was a 4, one was an 8, one was a 10. The sales associate thought that I didn't try them on. I told her I did try them on and they all fit the same.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

I have a weird mental block that will simply not allow me to try something on in the next size up, once I get to a certain number. Extremely small-cut clothing makes me feel like that manufacturer doesn't want me to wear their stuff. I know, it's not rational, but there it is.

chirico (Chiara)

(website)

Veteran

So true! I always try 2 or 3 pairs of the same jeans,different sizes, because they are so variabile even within the same brand, depending on the washe. In US size I span 3 sizes, so I am very hesitant in buying online...

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Great point, and glad you found a skirt that fits no matter what the tag says. I've never been that distressed by having to go up a size, but then it's not a new experience for me, I suppose. Across brands the sizes are nearly meaningless, and even within a brand - we've probably all had the experience of trying on multiple pairs of the same item in the store in the same size and finding that they all fit slightly differently - sometimes a lot differently depending on the tolerances from the factory and the quality control.

If you ever want to bend your brain properly about this, learn to sew. Then spend the next decade or three figuring out that every single pattern maker uses a different set of standard sizes, they grade patterns up and down differently depending on their core size and no one knows what is is, and how every single human body is individual and also changes constantly due to aging, exercise, etc., so even a pattern that fit you three months ago might not be quite right anymore, or for a different fabric, because every fabric wears and launders differently.

Sara L.

Veteran

Shopping at thrift stores has really brought this lesson home. The thrift store I like doesn't organize by size, they organize by color. Which looks awesome - all those colors! but makes it hard to find your size I've gotten fairly good at eyeballing clothing instead of always checking tags. I usually wear a 4 or 6, but recently bought a black dress that was sized 10P and fits perfectly. I woud never have tried that on normally - that's 2 sizes up from my normal size and I'm too tall to be a petite (I'm 5'6").

LaPed

Veteran

Yep, so true! I wish more online retailers would provide garment-specific measurements, rather than generic body measurements. That's one reason I've done so much ebaying recently -- most sellers are happy to provide detailed measurements if you ask.

Helena

Veteran

Hear hear!!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

HAH. Great Matrix reference. And I just made one on Bonnie's thread before seeing this, April. We are telepathic today.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT. The size on the label is only the starting point to good fit - a practical way to get as close as possible the time round. (And yes. Designer wear tends to run a lot small). Hope a size up works out.

catgirl

Veteran

Amen, sister! Additionally, even the term "runs small" loses meaning in this context - does Old Navy run large, or Theory run small? What's the measure? Am I a 2 or an 8, or a men's 30, or a girls XL, and who cares?

I found a RICK OWENS sweater at consignment store yesterday for $54. It's my dream sweater - asymmetric, drapy, uber-long fitted sleeves. I have no idea what size it is because there's no size tag in it, but it fits and I bought it and am walking on air.

There is no spoon.

Author Linda

Veteran

What a great topic! Something to keep in mind is that no one knows what size my dress is, or my pants are, unless I tell them. They might guess that I look like a size 14 or a 20 (no one will ever think I wear a size 2) but they are seeing me, not my clothing size. I wear anything from an S to an XL, a 10 to 18. Only my shoe size is constant. When it comes to clothing anything goes!

I know people who won't wear anything that's XL. They can't get past the size. What they end up doing is hunting endlessly for L items that run large. I know because that's what I did until I realized how pointless it is to be ruled by sizing. What matters most is that my clothing fits and flatters my body. Linda-size. Yeah, that's what it has to be. Up, down, whatever it takes. Linda-size.

shiny

Veteran

I'm having fun since my weight has crept up. I am no longer in the camp where I need to order both an XS and a S because it depends on the garment which one will fit better. Instead, I just order the Small (whether petite or not), and 9 times out of 10 it fits. If it doesn't, I am loathe to exchange for a medium, but not due to vanity. It's because the sizing vertically will be longer all over, and unlikely to hang right on my 5'0 frame.

That said I did just purchase a knit top at TJ Maxx that is a medium regular. My daughter and I were shopping together. She tried it on first and it was much much too tight and too tall for her (she's 5 inches taller than me and her bust is much larger too). So I tried it on next and it fit me perfectly. I think it is a junior brand.

As for designer clothes, I didn't think twice about investing in my Burberry coats, even though the label was size 6 and I had to move the buttons out a bit (and shorten the hem and sleeves and move the belt up). If I'm spending good $ on designer stuff, then it's worth the $ to alter (though in this case the alterations were included).

unfrumped

Veteran

So true! Definitely need to not be held back by labels and focus on great fit by the "eyeball test" and not the size.
I've been lucky not to have size-label issues.
I do hate the online problem of not knowing what size to order. This definitely puts a damper on branching out to some interesting brands or styles.
And, I know, right, about "these pants fit great but are too long so sadly they are going back". That's even worse than a size issue. I do have a lot of sympathy if there are shipping charges, and sometime that has caused me to "move on" if the size I ordered did not fit and especially since sometimes the next size loses something in translation. I do order 2 sizes, sometimes but again, that gets to be a lot of credit churn.
AT is potentially like that--if I order a size with their "flash sales" and it looks good but I need to try different size, the sale might be off and/or I have to meet shipping minimum and may have to bundle the return to minimize my return cost.
But that 's just a size-guessing issue and not a matter of caring what size I end up with.

Anonymous

Those of us who sew and have a background in manufacturing and construction know that the difference between sizes on a cutting block or paper pattern is usually in the 1/8 to 1/4" area when we are talking side seams, centre back seams, armscye etc. It just goes to show you how a small change in your body size - infinitesimal , really, can put you up a size in clothing. I'm like Janet though in getting p*Ssed off when 'my size" doesn't fit and refusing to even try on the bigger size . That whole mental juggling process is enough to turn me off whatever piece of clothing it was. However.......just yesterday I was trying on a pair of Vince Strapping trousers in the same size as the pair I already own (Just different fabric blends) . The pair I own is loose and sometimes on the biggish size. I could not even get on the same size pair in the store in a different wool blend. I would have tried on and bought a pair in a bigger size had they had them in stock.....sort of breaking my rule/bad habit of rejecting bigger sizes. But that was because I REALLY wanted these pants. But I have everything from a 4 to an 8 in my closet right now - and they all fit. Jeans in 27-29. Sweaters in XS to M . Same thing. It's enough to drive one to drink. And you wonder why I never shop online .......

Caro in Oz

Veteran

Nope - no spoon I have so many different sizes in my wardrobe it seems funny now - my body is the same the clothes are different.

catgirl

Veteran

Lisa, that happens to me with Vince all the time. Also j. crew. I have the strapping pants in two different sizes!

But being driven to drink isn't the worst fate. Another glass of wine?

April

Veteran

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if you have a hard and fast rule about not sizing up, you may be a person who once completed a heroic weight loss journey?

I was a chubby kid and had times as a young adult when my weight was more than I would like, and I do think this contributed to my slow learner status on sizing.

Allowing myself to size up seems like a slippery slope. But I have truly come to believe that sizing has gotten so crazy that sizing up doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I always envied the practicality of men's sizing, where the pants have a waist measurement and an inseam, and everything makes sense. Until I ordered a pair of dress pants for my husband from a well-known mail-order retailer, in his correct waist and inseam, and they were enormous. When I called the company to ask about this, they told me that a men's 32 waist was, for them, actually more like 34 inches because "some men prefer a generous fit." WTF?

When a 32-inch waist is 34 inches, there is no spoon.

Anonymous

Nope, no heroic weight loss experience for me. Just a chip on my shoulder and an ego that gets in the way from time to time. What it translates to in my head is 'you are gaining weight, do not buy clothes'. This is a state of mind I am working to rid myself of . I have no idea what the "there is no spoon" reference is.....

April

Veteran

LP -- "There is no spoon" is a quote from The Matrix, commenting on the nature of reality. You can see the scene here (about 1 minute and a half): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXtO5dMqEI

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

It's easier when one is at the small or middle of the size range.
Unfortunately, at least in my current situation there is no sizing up. At least at my current size in the brands I like, I'm at the very top of the chart or already sized out.
But I know what it's like to get hung up on a number.

Gigi

Veteran

April, I have to laugh at your reference to the men's 32 pants that were 34 inches in the waist. It reminds me of going on the F21 website and seeing things like "Size 24: Waist, 27 inches..." Umm, if you want to say "Size 0: Waist, 27 inches," then OK, but size 24? Grr.

I've gained some weight over the last year, which is actually a good thing since I've been having health problems that have affected it. But I didn't gain all over...80% of it went to my behind. So now I am also trying to navigate curvy-fit bottoms, which I have found are few and far between for petites. Sometimes I do wish that women's clothes were sold like men's with regard to sizing, as you point out. It would make things a lot easier!

Style Fan

Veteran

I have been reading this thread with interest. I have a mental block about buying clothes once the clothes are a certain size. I will not buy them. I have never lost large amounts of weight. I was much slimmer when I was younger. Menopause brought on some weight and I am the heaviest I have ever been. I have accepted that I am not going to be the size I was pre 45 but I am not going above a certain size in my wardrobe. No this does not make sense except to me.
I do find that certain brands/designers work better for me. That makes a difference in terms of the size. J. Crew pants do not fit me unless I become a different shape.