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people's judgmentalism over weight gain

Mochi

Veteran

https://www.facebook.com/photo.....38;theater

A FB friend shared this chart of people's excuses around why they gain weight. The real reason is supposed to be that you're constantly overeating. My friend is a triathlete and marathoner and has about 18% body fat, which she wants to reduce....she is kind of over-the-top into fitness, and much of what she posts is actually helpful and inspiring, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

I actually don't feel like I have a personal issue. I don't make excuses, and I have a fairly fast metabolism and the weight comes off when I work out and make slight tweaks to my diet. In fact, my body is pretty forgiving, as I often make bad food choices (uh, that means sweets, usually) and yet manage to avoid weight gain if I exercise.

But I know people--women especially--who are not shoving food in their faces and have a lot of trouble with weight creeping on. Hormones. Menopause. It could be an injury...even things like not getting proper sleep! Or simply eating a slight excess number of calories each day can add up to ten or more pounds a year. I hate when people make these reductive and simplistic assumptions. Especially when it's splashed across a FB page as if it's the absolute Truth.

And even if it is true for many people, how is it going to empower them? I realize that's what it is supposed to do--"no more excuses." But it really annoys me. It's making assumptions and I dislike the idea that people think I'm lazy or have a terrible diet because of the extra weight I'm carrying around, which is weight I put on over the course of a decade or more (much of it in childhood, too), and have been reducing--I'm down over 50 lbs from my highest weight, and have kept it off for about seven years.

I just feel annoyed at a lot of the smugness of the fitness industry. It's one of the reasons why I'm good with Precision Nutrition. They are not sanctimonious about how we all got to our current situations...and it doesn't even matter, anyway, as long as we can make small changes over time.

Okay, wordy rant over!

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Raisin

Veteran

Wow, this totally rubs me the wrong way too. This is so false. I have to say I have done a lot of reading, not that I'm a doctor or anything, but I truely honestly believe that much of the weight issues in North America have to do with sugar and the havoc it plays on our body. And not because we overeat food, but because food companies have added sugar in huge amounts to EVERYTHING! We have also been led to believe for a long time that fats are bad, and a high grain diet is good. This is so wrong, IMO. This is why we are eating Paleo here, and being off grains and sugar is definitely improving my digestive system. dH has lost about 10lbs in a few weeks. I think the majority of people are trying to eat sensibly, and follow the so called diet that doctors have been advocating for so long, and it's just not working. I highly reccomend anyone read Gary Taubes book, Why we get fat and what to do about it. It really shows how we've been tricked into thinking low fat, high grain diets are best, and they are so wrong, and for so many people, it's not their fault that they are overweight. Stating that they all overeat is a gross, judgemental statement.

That is really such a smug, bitchy thing to post....grrrr, it's pissing me off!

Raisin

Veteran

Also wanted to add I am trying VERY hard to feed my family only healthy food, and it is very hard to find. Grocery stores are full of crap! Even the so called healthy food is crap when you really examine it. What are people supposed to do?

Mochi

Veteran

I know. It's crazy, Rae. And high fructose corn syrup is even worse than sugar, and implicated in all sorts of diseases. I.....argh....well, I had better stop now. Good on you for moving to a healthy diet, and successfully bringing your family along. Paleo sounds interesting and I've heard people can do really well with it.

Echo

Veteran

Overweight is one of the last frontiers of acceptable bigotry, and I find it apalling that people can so easily adopt a holier-than-thou attitude - especially when many of them have either never struggled with weight (in which case they are in no position to judge) or once had the same issue (in which case one might imagine they would have more compassion). If there were one simple, one-size-fits-all solution to the issue of overweight, then no one would be overweight.

I also agree very strongly with both of you, Mochi and Raisin.

MsMary

Veteran

Amen! For another eye-opening book on this topic, check out "The End of Overeating" by David Kessler.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Urgh. I hate that kind of thing, too. I don't really know what the purpose is...sanctimonious is the word. And ill-informed as well. Of course, people DO eat to deal with the horrible crap life throws at them...but so what? I don't like the shaming and blaming.

I also (still....even working in this business) have a really hard time understanding why any woman who is not a professional athlete would set a goal of going lower than 18% body weight. I see this all the time and it makes me wonder. What is the point of it? What kind of goal IS it, really? A goal about DOing is one thing (I want to be able to run that race, lift that weight, dance til I drop) but a goal related to a specific percentage of body fat does not seem to be about real life to me.

I am going through with the current cohort of LEers and see quite a few who are aiming for 14 or 15% BF and they are not young girls but middle aged. And I am scratching my head and wondering what this is all about. The valorization of skinny in a whole new way, I think.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

ETA: I am all for keeping to a healthy BF ratio. I just think...women...if you are anywhere from 17 to 22 you are probably pretty darn good so don't sweat it - enjoy life - eat real food and have some fun! (Though, to Raisin's point, that is increasingly difficult when it's tough to buy healthy food).

Anonymous

I recently added weight to my do-not-discuss-list, yet I just wanted to offer you a big hug. I know the topic is very sensitive to you and you work really hard towards a healthy diet and healthy habits.
(Hugs)

Mochi

Veteran

Thanks, everyone. I don't take this message as personally as I made it sound (I'm sort of at an in-between weight where I may not have anyone thinking anything about me at all). But I do know that in principle this is a really smug, ill-informed message and does nothing to attempt a broader understanding (and thus, solution) to the problem.

Suz, I am really bothered by the body fat thing as well. My friend is not anorexic and she actually needs to feed herself constantly, but to my mind she (and from what it looks like, her friends) are really OCD about exercise. This woman is so thin, so thin--I think 5'3" and 105 lbs--and thinks she needs to lower her body fat percentage more. Where will any further fat loss come from? She already looks like a boy. I do think that the driving issue is just a constant need to do MORE. Behind it, from my perspective, or at least I'm wondering about this...if you're always wanting your body to reach another goal, another goal, another goal....how much is that good? And is it another way of never being satisfied with yourself as you are? Which is kind of weird to me.

I find also in this culture a mindset of extremes. I get the sense that there's no middle ground for many people--your options are to either be a super-triathlete or weigh 400 lbs and watch tv all day. Because that's the kind of stuff I see posted up on Facebook.

It's so frustrating. I don't relate to it personally. I do what I need to do. I made some comments on that post (and didn't stick around to read the replies). I like my friend and don't want to start blocking her posts. She's in Japan so FB is our means of communicating.

Oh, and one other thing about the OCD body fat mania...someone else posted that women can lose their fertility if they go too low in body fat. It would have been good to have that acknowledged, but I think no one responded.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I just want to give you a big hug too, Nancy. Several hugs!! (((HUGS))). This type of thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, just like it does you.

Mander

(website)

Veteran

Urgh. Sanctimonious is a great word for this kind of thing. The only thing you can tell about someone by looking at them is how they look. I get so tired of people assuming that anyone who is fat must be eating poorly and not getting any exercise, not to mention the idea that people who *do* choose an unhealthy lifestyle are somehow lesser people.

I could rant on this for days, so I'll stop now, but I'd be really annoyed at any friend of mine who posted something like this, too. People can be such jerks.

ironkurtin

Veteran

There is seldom only one reason for anything. Reducing cause to a single phrase isn't truly helpful, or particularly accurate.

Kristin L

Veteran

That's a horrible pic/quote thingy. I feel like it's trying to take a problem that has so many factors and boiling it down to 1 thing. It's like some of the thin-spiration pics that say "If you don't throw up after a work-out, then it doesn't count" or "If you can move the day after a work-out, then it it doesn't count". It's just making people feel worse.

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

Oh boy...do not even get me started!!! As someone who has dealt with her weight for the past 15 years due to a clinically diagnosed endocrine imbalance, I am infuriated by people who assume I'm overweight because I am lazy or don't care about myself. Sure, I can do more healthy eating and exercise (which I'm doing now thanks to LE) but there are many factors at play for people who have weight issues and no one should make false accusations or assumptions without knowing all those factors.

Gaylene

Veteran

Project Implicit is an interesting portal for research into implicit social cognition--or, in normal English--how we unconsciously respond to situations, people, and events.

One of the tests from Harvard investigates whether or not a person has an unconscious preference for thin vs. fat. You can take the any of the tests as a guest, thereby remaining anonymous. But the site does warn you in advance that many people are often surprised at their results; for example, the weight test often reveals an unconscious preference for thin people relative to fat people despite a person's expressed attitude. If you are interested in exploring your own attitudes here's the link: https://www.projectimplicit.net/index.html

Personally, I think it is very hard to live in our culture and, even with the best of intentions, not be influenced by the obsession with thinness as the most desirable state. Exploring our unconscious attitudes is one way of making us a bit more aware of how we can inadvertently be guilty of acting negatively towards others whose shapes don't meet a very narrow set of artificial criteria. None of us can avoid having preferences and prejudices, but becoming aware of them and acknowledging their influence, is, to my mind, the first step in not letting them rule our reactions.

And, while I'd love to report that I was totally neutral, my results did reflect a "moderate" bias for thin. That means I can probably count myself among those whose attitude towards a someone with a fuller body shape may lead me into that sanctimonious, shaming and blaming behavior that I absolutely abhor when I see it in others. It's easy to say I'm without bias, but, obviously, my attitude needs some work.

Caro in Oz

Veteran

Sorry I won't link to Facebook any more but I hope I get the drift...

Before I was diagnosed as hypo-thyroid I had doctors peddling this line at me - so frustrating when you eat well & exercise.

catherine

Veteran

A post like that is a waste of electrons and is very insensitive. I am sorry you had to see it. Besides being just plain stupid, anybody with a history of an eating disorder or body image problems would NOT like to see that pop up on their FB news feed, because it would be a huge trigger.

Echo

Veteran

Gaylene, that is really fascinating, and I am not at all surprised that most Americans might have a bias (recognized or otherwise) for thin. Indeed, part of what drives the sanctimonious behaviour of those who have lost a lot of weight is often their attitudes about themselves and their unrecognized loathing for themselves. It doesn't make their comments any less infuriating, but it does help a little when we understand that their feelings are just as strong against THEMSELVES as they are against anyone else. And that's pretty sad, IMO.

Carla

Veteran

It is just a crying shame that some folks can't seem to appreciate that beauty or ability comes in diverse packages.

I've been a runner since I was 13. In high school a coach explained to me that I didn't really have the right kind of body for running, but since the school was so short of girl runners, I could train with the team. I was the only girl who made the cross country and the track team every year in high school.

I've continued with my sport, and gone on to road races, marathons, and the past 12 years triathlons. But, during 30 years of endurance sports--- you know what? I've had a body fat percentage of between 24 and 28% the whole time. I weighed about 140 lb in my 20's and today I weight 150 lb ( at 5 ft 7in) . So I'm classified on the high end of average/ healthy/ normal for body fat % and weight.

And, that's okay.

Having spent 30 years in locker rooms, I can tell you EVERYONE has hang ups about their looks! It is all such a shame, and a waste of time and energy.

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Mochi

Veteran

Thanks for all your insights. Guy did respond directly to me: "Remember that "overeating" is simply defined as eating more energy (calories) than you burn each day. If you simply balance your input with your output on a daily or even weekly basis, you can maintain whatever weight you want.

But if you eat maintenance level calories Mon - Fri and eat a surplus every weekend (just 1 - 2 days of overeating), you will gain weight slowly but surely over time."

Maybe that's fine (I actually think it's still too simplistic and not entirely true for everyone), but when the original message only has big type screaming "You're overeating constantly", I think there's an entirely different message being sent out.

I am not going to reply.

I realized that there are two separate issues in my head that I was conflating: the "overeating constantly" and my annoyance with fitness junkies' obsessions over extremely low body fat. I think that it was a stretch for me to tie them together, but the reason I got so annoyed was that I am frustrated with extremist beliefs being touted as something not only normal, but desirable....and that these are people who are out judging other people? (That may or may not be true. I don't think my friend is judgmental, but I know she does not see anything less than empowering in those "motivational" messages.)

Argh. This is just one thing that pushes my buttons way too much.

ETA: Carla, I really enjoyed seeing your running pic and knowing that you are in the "wrong" body for it but love doing it anyway! Now THAT is inspiring.

Jules

Veteran

I definitely think there are people out there who take their "healthy" eating and exercise to unhealthy levels. It can be an addiction like any other. I just think they need to recognize that their obsessions are not everyone else's, nor do we necessarily even aspire to that look or lifestyle.
Mochi, there is an option to block a friend's updates from your feed without defriending them - I've done it when someone's posts are not making me feel good about me or them. And of course it's not permanent and can be changed back

Anonymous

Just a side note and I say this with all the love, criticizing people's low BF% or " extreme" fitness goals, can be perceived to be as judgmental as the blanket statement made in the FB post. I think that's what makes the topic so tricky for me. What is "extreme" is in the eye of the beholder.

Sadly, I have concluded that there is no way to come out unscathed from the weight, diet and healthy living debate. First, there is so much conflicting information all over the place and second, the dietary needs and fitness goals are different for each of us. I have concluded this topic is one of those where you have to "live and let live".

Echo

Veteran

Actually, more and more studies are indicating that calories in/calories out are NOT all there is to it. Like it was mentioned before, sugars and high fructose corn syrup has a lot to do with tripping insulin surges in the body. This alone stores fat, but the resulting drop in blood sugar creates a craving for more. Likewise, the sweetening from artificial sweeteners creates an expectation of calories in the body, and if actual calories are not consumed, then the appetite will be generated until they are.

That's not to say that calories play no part in things; they do. Nor do I think people should take diet (ala Atkins or paleo) to such an extreme that they try to force it onto others, either. I am just saying that the simplistic approach of calories in vs calories out is NOT all there is to the equation. To over-simplify things to one factor and then point the finger and imply that anyone who is overweight cannot follow one "simple" idea is even more insulting.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Carla, I love that you are doing a sport you supposedly don't have the body for! I guess your body is proving that coach wrong.

Zap, what you say is interesting...people become so passionate about their beliefs on this subject that it is almost like a religion. I suppose we all feel a bit defensive for some reason. Probably due to implicit cultural messages, as Gaylene suggests.

I think that if we move our bodies regularly and vigorously and aim for joy and pleasure in movement, if we eat good food and enjoy it, and if we pay attention to something else in life besides weight, food, body fat, and calories -- that is a surer recipe for real health and happiness than anything else.

catgirl

Veteran

I was just at an all day conference on unconscious bias and how to be more aware of what we reflexively assume by looking at or interacting with people. We did that Project Implicit exercise and it was fascinating. Height, race, weight, gender, age and on and on....

The two women who ran the program were very good and I'd highly recommend them to anyone whose workplace is looking for some of this type of training. Ours was for people working in the area of legal guardianship for adults, but it obviously applies across the board.

http://www.fig8consulting.com/

Mochi

Veteran

I thought a lot about what Zap said in regards to my being equally judgmental and I think she definitely has a point. The upshot of all this is that I decided to take a hiatus from Facebook because I can't control what people send me (you're also right, Jules, but I didn't really want to block this person--she had other interesting posts on different subjects and it was nice to generally see what she was up to). Also because this friend was posting so much on fitness (I think this was the reason), I am getting constant spam from Dr. Oz and others and at the end of the day all this is driving me crazy. It was bad enough that I was wasting too much time there, and unlike with YLF, subjecting myself to frustration as well as fun.

I think the difference that bothered me (with regards to Zap's point again) is that the people who are going for ultra-low body fat don't have the baggage of feeling like they're looked down on or discriminated against in their current status, and at the same time feel that what they're trying to do is wholly desirable (unlike, let's say, an overweight person who is well aware of being judged on a constant basis). Maybe that doesn't give anyone the moral position to judge them, but as I'd said, I don't want people coming from this extreme position (in my opinion--I don't think it's really healthy) to be issuing judgment against me or people who have shared experience with me.

But because I'm getting so irritated, that convinced me I'm better off taking a break. Unfortunately I tend to get too intense and feel too strongly about these things.

Looking forward to checking out that link. Thanks.

ramya

Veteran

People I just dont get them sometimes...
You know many including some people of my family have told me I look beautiful when I lost tonnes of weight due to depression...

No way was it healthy and no I didnt feel healthy... Phuleez... Accept us for we are!!!

Anonymous

Just to clarify, I don't think you are judgmental

That's the thing Mochi. We all have our proverbial achilles heel. Lil' Zap wrote a really good essay for college apps, on why she did not want her middle school classmates to know she was held back in first grade. She thought that the world was an expert in finding your "weird" and your " different", and making an issue out of it. That's it, she's got it. We all have our "weird" and our" different". It is what we do with it what makes a difference.

The essay has a really cool ending so yes, it is a happy one!

P.S. you are awesome ( You too Suz).