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Pattern Grading

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

Since this topic has come up in a couple of threads, I wanted to put this in it's own thread.
I don't know how they do it now, it may be by computer- but when I was taught pattern grading by hand back in the stone ages this is how it was done:
You start with a standard sized pattern (size 8 was what we used) in cardboard. You used a little device which consisted of a weighted base and two thin metal arms attached to graded dials. One dial moved the arms in or out, the other up or down. You begin by taping the first pattern piece of the garment to the grading device and tracing it. For each type of garment, there is a set of instructions for sizing up/down. So, for a blouse on the sleeve piece; you first move up 1/8" and mark the top of the cap. After each move, you moved back to the original size, then to your next move; out 1/4" and mark the underarm point, etc. You continue in this manner until all points on the pattern are marked, and then you use drawing tools (rulers and curves, etc) to connect all of the marked edges in a smooth line. This is now the outline of the new size. This is a tedious process, and you can begin to see how it has limited success, and why sizing breaks are necessary. One reason, of course, is that as you venture into plus sizes, you no longer need extra length as much as width. This is also why short/tall or inseam length sizing becomes important. Not everyone expands out or round at the same rate that they grow taller.
One fluid set of a larger range of sizing, such as Old Navy is now carrying will be sized for specific fit models, as all clothing lines are. The best case scenario is that the fit models they use will be the most typical body shapes/weight distributions and that their patterns will allow for the widest array of figures to fit into their sizes.

General

34 replies

Latest reply was from

Synne

Veteran

Interesting. Did you work in clothes design? I am an amateur seamstress, and have some minor experience in altering patterns for my own body. I find it fascinating that there exist an "ideal body" out there, that can fit perfectly into whatever X size off the rack. I am not one of those.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this insight, Khris. I confess I never thought too much about how patterns are adjusted for a range of sizing until very recently.

Staysfit

Veteran

Thanks for sharing your experience with this. Your explanation makes it easier to understand why certain clothing lines work for some people and others do not. I wonder how a particular designer, or company decides what fit model to use? Are there stats or a data base somewhere?

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

“The best case scenario is that the fit models they use will be the most typical body shapes/weight distributions”

Agreed that’s the best case for now, as long as they insist on one standard for each size. And I have the same concern as Staysfit and Synne. If I was a statistician, I’d express it in terms of mean, mode, and standard distribution, but I’m not. If I wanted to be cute, I’d express it in terms of peaches, melons, string beans, and other produce, but I won’t. To be clearer, I’ll just say that at any size, there are many variations in people’s bodies. No fit model can work for them all.

Size charts already show hip and waist measurements for each garment; that might be a place to start changing the proportions, so you could have a size X with the waist 10” smaller than the hips, one with 5” difference, and so forth. The actual amounts of difference would probably have to be different for different sizes.

This is similar to stocking jeans by waist and inseam, but shortening the leg (for most fits, not flares or tapers) is a lot simpler alteration than changing the proportions around the torso.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

All of this is evidence for why there needs to be a thriving market of a variety of independent clothing designers and manufacturers. It’s an argument for more brand diversity and supporting smaller and regional/local designers who work for your individual body and style. Each designer has their own design perspective, ideal clientele, and body types that their designs particularly suit. It’s too much to expect a single brand like Old Navy (even though they are a large brand with the resources and infrastructure to have a wider manufacturing scope) to do it all and fit all shapes and sizes, at least when it comes to clothing that has any degree of tailoring. So I think it’s impressive when these brands make the attempt.

I remember first learning about fit models way back decades ago, and it clicked into place why some brands never work for me, no matter my size. A designer like Ted Baker, for example, clearly uses a fit model with a long torso. Once I figured that out, I never bothered trying on their dresses again, LOL. Once I find a maker who seems to get my body type (for instance, Anthro’s Pilcro line for jeans and pants) , I’m generally a loyal customer.

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Some might find brand diversity exciting & fun. It can also be daunting & overwhelming. Some kind of indicators of what brands use what shape fit models could provide a map.

Finding makers who design for your body type is trial & error/word of mouth. I’d much rather have a sizing system that codified it. Then a brand could say clearly what proportions they design for, taking the guesswork out of it. Some might design for diversity, producing a bunch of versions. Others might focus on fit models with x feature (the same one) at every size. But at least consumers could know what they were getting.

I think a size system that took proportions into account would take a lot of the anxiety out of trying on clothes. Instead of trying on heaps of jeans and despairing that you couldn’t pull any all the way up because the calves are too narrow, you could go straight to the ones with your proportions in mind.

rachylou

Veteran

Ok. I’d never heard of such a mechanical tool. So I googled it to see what it looked like and then had to watch a video of it in action because I really could not imagine, lol! It’s kind of like calipers, isn’t it.

https://vimeo.com/83953396

I once went into the shop of a local clothing designer. She said there were something like 32 standard ‘base fits.’ As a maker, you would choose something maybe like 3, because that’s a pretty overwhelming number. And of course the variation of real bodies is infinite.

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Helena

Veteran

This is so interesting ... I've never given much thought to the technicalities behind how clothing is made to different sizes.

Nodding with everything Janet said ... It isn't reasonable to expect a single brand to be able to cater to every combination of height, size, and shape (and aren't tailors glad!) ... But the more retailers that put forth the effort, the more we all have an opportunity to discover a "go to" brand or two that works well for us. Good for business too, as they have the opportunity to find and service a niche ... Love a good win-win scenario!

Such fascinating discussion, thanks CS for sharing!

Anonymous

repeating Janet's entire second comment verbatim

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Rachylou, 32 base fits—wow! You are correct, of course, that actual variety is infinite, so I guess we just have to wait for clothing made from body scans to fit us perfectly. In the meantime, though, wouldn’t it be awesome to see those different base fits be general knowledge, openly discussed and announced up-front by makers, so people could go right to the ones that work for them?

Runcarla

Veteran

Some places do try to account for variety in builds by providing different fits. A jeans line I liked had the Mia, Hanna, and Suki fit - each with different waist, hip, rise configurations. BR has Ryan, Logan, and Avery fit trousers, and Riley and Dillon fit shirts. Levi’s does a whole series of number codes for different fits. I believe Boden does fit families as well.

Even if a brand made clothes that fit my body perfectly, I don’t think I would buy my entire allotment of garments from them. Ralph Lauren fits me very well, but the clothes aren’t always my aesthetic.

Anonymous

Yes . This is how we did it , back in the day . There are now AutoCAD programs to direct cutters instead of cardboard pattern pieces . I spent an entire semester learning how to do this - and even back then we were writing papers and doing research projects on the difficulties of / lack of / limits of standard sizing in manufacturing . The frustration and outrage isn’t exactly new

Chewy- sounds like you and I have similar backgrounds ?

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

Synne, I never worked in fashion. I studied it, and discovered that I had no aptitude for the necessary technical skills (such as pattern grading). I worked in the wardrobe department at Disneyland for a few years, but not designing or sewing- I dressed some shows and parades and handed out the uniforms for people working in the park.

Staysfit- many times the fit model ends up being someone the designer was already working with- a supportive friend who was always willing to try on and model items in progress, a "muse", or a favorite model they had worked with before. I'm sure there must be information and companies who deal specifically with fit models now.

Janet- that's why I like Old Navy so much- I know it's going to fit. I hope that doesn't change.

Rachylou- that brings back such horrible memories lol I hated that class!

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Runcarla, interesting to look at the different fits like that. I agree with you that it’s great they have them for different bodies! Now to find a way to encapsulate that easily, a common language that can be used across brands, so that when you’ve done the experimentation at one, you know what to ask for at the next.

ETA I have seen this for sizes—there’s an applet at numerous sites that asks your height weight, age, and then asks what sizes have fit you at other designers. Idk what the data behind it is.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Thank, Khris! I used to grade by hand as a designer. It was a mare

I then sent out patterns from our sample room to a professional grader - very skilled work - who did a much, much better job. This was 1993, btw. But in the factories, grading was done with CADs, and that was accurate as far as following grading rules goes. But the rules are a little flawed, and based on the wrong assumptions. Therein lie the fit challenges. (Grading rules are different across mens, womens and childrens wear).

Grading is VERY tricky as it is. As you mentioned, you have to stop adding length and concentrate on width after a certain size. And be careful that armholes and necklines don't get too wide either. That's why - in my experience as dressing people for a living - the hardest person to fit is a plus sized petite person because of the problems with excess length in the torso, necklines and armholes. I see that Old Navy goes up to an 18P. That is at least something. Finding a 24P and beyond is a very tall order.

"The best case scenario is that the fit models they use will be the most typical body shapes/weight distributions and that their patterns will allow for the widest array of figures to fit into their sizes" = we can only hope!

Since it's on topic, I will re-paste what I said in your Old Navy thread. Good to have it in one place:

Anna linked to an excellent article, if you missed it. It explains the grading rules that have to change across a large assortment of sizes:

"Waldman and co-founder Polina Veksler self-developed a technique for constructing plus-sized clothing called micrograding. They recognised the weakness of the standard formula for grading towards bigger sizes, which they compare to making a photocopy of a photocopy. “After a while, the pattern becomes distorted (a pair of culottes in a size 4 becomes a pair of palazzo pants by the time you reach a US size 24), so we started grading between every size, and using fit models across our entire size range whenever developing a new garment.”

It works. “When you have 11 models (representing alpha sizing) standing shoulder to shoulder, you can see right away if a dress meant to stop at the knee does so on a size 4XS as well as a XL,” they say"

This is the care and control that is needed to create a good fit across ALL the sizes!

https://www.voguebusiness.com/.....-plus-size

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Also adding, that although the fit models used by brands are key, and should be varied and as close to what the customers/markets needs are - it is STILL no guarantee for good fit. If you're lucky and the fit model was based more or less on your proportions - bonus.

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Angie, I fully agree with your last statement (probably already obvious that I do by now)

cat2

Veteran

Yeah, learning about the fit models really helped me too. I keep lists of brands that fit and brands that don’t, so I don’t waste time shopping a brand that is too short waisted, too narrow of shoulder, etc. I keep ShopStyle sale alerts running for the brands that do work, and don’t budge from them unless I can’t find what I need.

Runcarla

Veteran

A couple years old, but interesting none the less. https://fashionista.com/2018/0.....megan-roup

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Runcarla, interesting article! This part was particularly frustrating: Finding racially diverse fit models for this series proved to be unexpectedly difficult, which seems to indicate that this sector of the modeling industry is lagging behind in regards to inclusivity. Perhaps this means that fashion brands don't take the bodies of women of color into consideration as much as they should when designing collections, which taps into the ongoing industry- and culture-wide conversation about what a woman's body is supposed to look like — how curvy, if at all, a physique should be — and how clothing ought to fit.
Holy devils circle, Batman! If the point of racial inclusivity for fit models is to have clothing that fits bodies that vary from a very specific body type which is much more likely to occur among white women, then of course it’s going to be hard to find women who aren’t white who have those measurements.

Elle

Veteran

Thanks! This is so informative and explains a lot about the fit problems I've had over the years (long torso, small difference between waist and hip measurements). I've become a loyal Old Navy customer because their pants consistently fit and I can find natural fibers

Sal

Veteran

Thanks CS for this informative post. My friend is a lingerie designer and she showed me how she did this for bras.

I suspect the growth of stretchy fabrics and loose styles is partly due to the easier fits across different bodies. Leggings are more likely to fit than denim, tee are easier than cotton shirts.

Jenn

(website)

Veteran

Sure, it’s complex, but most of these companies are also coordinating global supply and distribution chains with thousands of moving parts. The complexity isn’t the issue, it’s the priorities.

JAileen

Veteran

I think this is why when I was in my 20s and thin, sleeves were too short, and now, in my 60s and pudgy, sleeves are too long.

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Jenn, yes. Thank you.

Gaylene

Veteran

As someone who went down the pattern creation/grading rabbit hole when I was sewing tailored workwear for myself in the 70s (following in the footsteps of my mom and grandmother who were both professional seamstresses in the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s—all pre-Lycra eras), I can attest to the complexity of fitting garments to the curvatures of female body. It’s bloody hard work to manage a good fit even when fitting to a single live model much less creating a fitting pattern which is capable of being graded into a dozen or more, perfectly fitting sizes for hundreds of women of varying ages, ethnicities, muscularity, and heights.

Kudos to Old Navy for trying to figure out a solution to this fitting conundrum but I think they are moving down the wrong path. Even if Old Navy insisted on manufacturers doubling the standard 32 base fits, grading from statistically “average” models still won’t come close to the ideal of creating well-fitting garments for the diversity of female shapes which exist in the population.

To me, the real key to getting clothes to fit individual, real-life bodies is to persuade women that alterations and adjustments are part and parcel of the buying process. Men, whose bodies are much easier to fit, accept alterations as normal because manufacturers build in adjustment points in their men’s clothing and retailers readily provide the service. Women, whose bodies are infinitely more challenging to fit, have been indoctrinated into expecting a garment to fit off the rack. I’ll save my applause for the designer/manufacturer who consciously builds in easy-to-alter adjustments in critical fit areas and retailers who provide these adjustments as a fast service to all customers. Can’t be done? Well, a Canadian designer Linda Lundstrom did exactly that back in the 70s when she patented an easy fix for poorly fitting pants by adding an adjustment to the rear crotch seam. I remember buying a pair of her pants and marveling at the ingenious adjustment which made it dead simple to get a good fit on the back of those lined, woven fabric, pants. No stretch required.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Interesting, Gaylene! Yes, I absolutely agree that it’s a good idea to make alterations easier, and a more normalized and expected part of adding to a wardrobe. I like it when retailers offer alteration services. Nordstrom has done a really good job for me. I wish more stores would follow suit.

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

That will be part of sustainableclothing lines- the ability to be altered.

Irina

Veteran

Gaylene , I absolutely agree. I accepted that most of my clothes needs to be altered to fit me. I buy the brands whose quality and style aesthetics is close to me and alter it rather than searching for brands that make clothes for my body type. It is not perfect and not everything can be adjusted but it generally works for me.

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