OT: job searching - YouLookFab Forum

Category

Off Topic

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

OT: job searching

Kari

Veteran

I am reposting a comment from a blog post I made, because I think It may be more likely to get visibility here.

I'm feeling pretty discouraged about job searching; on the one hand, I know it's a competitive (though improving) market, but on the other hand, it's disheartening to get the feedback that I am over-qualified for the jobs I apply for that contain responsibilities I've already held, but I'm not qualified enough for the next step up because most of my tasks have been so heavily administrative and entry-level.

I just don't know how to market myself effectively to bridge the gap between what I enjoy doing most, and what I've actually been spending my time doing for the last couple years. I'm willing to keep doing entry level tasks, and I make that very clear when I'm interviewing, but apparently I'm not really hiding that the analytical and strategic aspects of what I have done, while limited, have been the things I am most excited about.

So far, the one phone interview I was most hopeful about, where I had basically done the job before, the conversation with the hiring manager was not only very thought-provoking with both of us asking great questions of the other, but it was just fun - well, I didn't even make the cut for the in-person interview round. That leaves me feeling pretty nervous about my prospects, and my ability to tell how the interview actually went.

Part of the reason I'm discouraged, though, is that I'm just plain drained at my current job. I've been unhappy there for such a long time and am really eager to move into a more positive environment. I'm trying to keep my enthusiasm and energy level up for job searching in all my free moments, but it's really exhausting to expend a lot of effort and energy job searching, and have an awful commute, and be tired and unhappy at my current job, AND try to stay optimistic.

I don't really have anyone in my field I can ask for advice on where to look, and I keep searching and applying, but even my revamped resume can't hide that most of my experience has been heavily clerical and low-level. I'm just not sure what to do differently.

Off Topic

17 replies

Latest reply was from JulieJohn

Kristin L

Veteran

I'm sorry Kari. I'm sending you a big hug!

Are you on Linkedin? I've seen jobs posted on there.

I'm not sure what you do, but is there a way you can volunteer somewhere to get more experience doing what you want?

Traci

Veteran

I find that job searches are so often about knowing someone so I recommend network, network, network. Especially when you're looking to move up a notch, having someone who can vouch for your abilities will be everything.

Louise

Veteran

(((Hugs)))
I can understand its disheartening, when we have advertised for Playworkers in my childcare setting over- qualification is one of the criteria I've used to whittle down the numbers of applicants. Last time we had 30 and on paper all could have been suitable but obviously I couldn't interview 30 people. I second Traci's advice to network x

Kari

Veteran

I think that's the problem. My network is very helpful, but it is small. I've spread the word that I'm looking but the only actual person who had an opening I was qualified for a few months ago works at a company that's even farther away than my current job. I'm on Linked In and am scouring job boards weekly. I still have some phone interviews lined up but the same problems keep occurring. If I could think of a venue to volunteer in to gain experience, I would think about it, but any volunteer opportunities I've seen in my field would be during the work day.

I am not totally pessimistic about this, but my experience troubles me and makes me think I'm not a very attractive candidate due to what my actual experience in my job has entailed, and I have no idea what to do. I don't want to sound drained and desperate when I'm interviewing-and I don't think I do. I focus on what strengths I can bring, make the most of the job experience I do have. But I've spent years going into work and being miserable, and while I had periods where it was at least bearable enough to get through the day, it's started to get really bad again.

Thistle

Veteran

((Hugs))
Looking for a job is painful, especially when you are already working full time. I also hate the sneaking about as obviously you can't let anyone know what you are up to. The whole process is just painful. And imperfect.

you might have had a good interview. But your experience may have culled you not the interview itself. They may have liked you, but you didn't line up to what the hiring manager wanted. Not sure your field, but cost accountants don't make good tax accountant and usually not great financial accountants. Might be an excellent cost person, but I might need a consolidation person.

as a hiring manager, I can tell you I look for a couple of things, but the biggest is corporate fit. Do you mesh with the culture and my department? If the answer is no, there is nothing you can do to change it. And honestly, it is best for all to keep looking.

I next look at experience. And, it is going to be hard to go from a mostly clerical to analytical position. I usually look for some someone who is closer experience wise. That said, I also look for someone who this is the next logical step or next half step in their career. Not really interested in a lateral candidate as I know they are going to be looking to leave me or move up sooner than I want.

i also look internally first, but I have gone outside, even for higher level positions if there isn't a good internal fit. For these higher level positions, I tend to turn to recruiters. cost accountants in particular are tough to hire without using a recruiter.

finally, hang in there. I know it's tough, but you will find something! We all adore you and are sending you good vibes!

Kari

Veteran

Thistle, that reflects my experience exactly. I have applied to jobs all over but in my field, the only ones who have been interested enough to contact me for a phone interview would be lateral moves, and they want someone who will be in the position for longer than that. I am not qualified to take the job that would be a step up. The higher level jobs also typically ask for a professional level qualification that I can't get, because you are only permitted to test for it after years of exempt level work in my field, and I don't have any. There is no opportunity to move laterally even within my own company, not in the 3.5 years I've been there; the staff in my dept have been in their same jobs for 5-15 years, and at 3.5 years seniority I'm still the newest one.

*sigh* I am still applying to jobs until the cows come home, but I have no idea what to do differently. I can't move up, and I'm not even an attractive enough candidate to apply for jobs that are exactly like the one I hold now. I feel so awfully stuck and really discouraged.

Mander

(website)

Veteran

I don't have any advice, but I feel your pain. Job hunting at the moment is just soul-crushingly difficult. I have applied for so many jobs since I finished my PhD, everything from data entry with temp agencies to lectureships, and have not had a single interview or any positive response at all. Sometimes I honestly think I have been cursed or blacklisted or something, or that I really am such a freak and weirdo that people are afraid to interact with me, or something. Disheartening does not even begin to describe the feeling.

Having said that, you might find some useful advice on the Ask a Manager blog: http://www.askamanager.org/category/cover-letters

Nadya

Veteran

With your experience you probably know that there are all kinds of random reasons even great candidates aren't selected. Several years ago I had a phone interview for a job that went like the one you described - we had a great time, seemed to see eye to eye, but it never went any farther. A few years later, I happened to learn he'd hired an internal candidate. I somehow felt better, like maybe the external hunt had just been a quick check before moving ahead with someone already in house. My point is, Renee there are lots of reasons that have nothing to do with you.

A few years ago I invested in a set of podcasts about how to interview. One of the best lessons I learned was to "close,"that is, end every interaction with a specific request to go to the next step. "Thanks for the phone screen, I'd really like the opportunity to come in for an on-site interview." "I'm very excited by the position and hope you'll give me and offer." It felt really weird at first and I had to practice!

I know that you may know all this, so if you do, please just accept this as my way of sending you positive vibes. These things always work out, even though they always take longer than we want!

Oh, and one more thing. Some bright managers hire for talent and long term fit for the COMPANY, not the POSITION. I've hired people I knew would move up, and was excited about getting the talent in house. Hopefully you'll run into one of those soon.

Kari

Veteran

Nadya, thanks-I hope so too, but no luck there so far.

Firecracker (Sharan)

Veteran

Kari, I sympathize. Not sure what more I can say, just know that you inspire me with your fashion and style.
Well, I'll add something anyway, in case it might be of help in your stuck position. You might re-look your resume, and have a good, analytical friend look at it too. There might be some more analytical things that you've done in your current position, or achievements that show initiative beyond what's expected of your position level, that you have overlooked or not highlighted adequately on your resume. For each entry on the resume, list an accomplishment that shows your managerial potential. For each application you write (for those positions that are a step up), imagine you're talking to a friend (a sympathetic listener--someone more sympathetic, less critical than yourself), and answer the question, "How do you know you can do this job?" Because you do know that, or you're pretty sure, anyway, or you wouldn't be applying. Then translate your answer into cover-letter-ese.
And yes, as Nadya points out, remember: you never know why you weren't selected for an interview or for a job; for all you know, the position could have disappeared (not been funded).

krishnidoux

Veteran

Hugs! It is not a comfortable place to be, and self doubt is easy, but take heart.

So, you're "over-qualified", han? Well, beat them at their own game.
Have you thought of taking this qualification and selling it yourself, as in consulting? How about starting a personal blog in your field to showcase this "over" qualification? (Tips, links, etc) Then you have a business card made, put the blog on there and give it to everyone you meet. Meanwhile, you keep sending your applications a soon as you see job openings in the big institutions where you would like to work.

Get on LinkedIn, and whenever you publish a new post on your blog have it publicised there. Join conversation groups, post comments.

That is what I had to do, among other things, to start getting the jobs I wanted in my field. I didn't actually get a lot of offers directly from this, but every time I was interviewed in a job I had applied in, I got the job! I think it shows the prospective employer that I am passionate about what I do, just that "plus" needed to show that I am serious in what I do.

In one year I went from no job to one part time, then two part-times, then one part-time for a company and two direct contracts (double the $), and now one full time, (with benefits and a good salary) with a couple of direct contracts on the side, just in case. And I had been looking for a job with no success for 2 yrs before that.

Gaylene

Veteran

I think Thistle has given you some good information about how the hiring process works from the other side. Understanding what the person on the other side is trying to do can be a really good way to figure out how to present your qualifications and what you can do for the company.

One technique that works for some of my students works something like this: Put yourself in the prospective employer's position and draw up a list of qualities, education, experience, etc. that would characterize a dream employee for that position. Then take that list and beside each item write down what you have in your background that enables you to meet that criteria. You'll never have a 100% match up, but, even if you can only fulfill 60-75%, you'll be seen as a serious contender. And the match-up points are the ones that you want to drive home during the interview, even if it's just during a "friendly" conversation.

You probably already know this, but focusing on your duties and responsibilities in your current position doesn't really make you a strong contender in a competitive market. You need to drive home your accomplishments--what you've done with those responsibilities and what sets you apart from others who have held similar positions. You have to use all of your wits, personality, and intelligence to sell yourself as the most attractive candidate for that position.

Job hunting can be terrible for the ego, but you have to keep at it. As one of my students put it, it's NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO---YES!

Nadya

Veteran

Sigh, I don't know why that random "Renee" showed up in my reply. (The iPad keyboard is not my friend.) And I didn't really mean to sound conceited.

I'm going back to just sending positive thoughts for awhile!

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

Kari, have you considered a drastic career change altogether? I ask because it sounds like you are bored with your current job or maybe bored with the people. Have you thought about learning some new skills on your own - could be something you start just for fun, but who knows where it might lead? Do you speak any other language or have some other interest like health/nutrition, photography, etc.? Sometimes opportunities come in the oddest places.

I think your current job is secure, but I can't remember if that's what you said. Having a secure, paying job is a pretty big deal in the current market - even if it's not one you are terribly excited about - so give yourself credit for making a good decision to keep it while you search.

Anonymous

Kari, I do run first line interviews for my department (Never hiring interviews) but I can tell you what turns us off from the get go. Some of these things I am sure don't apply to you, but I figure I would put them out there anyway.

Generally speaking, we are turned off by excessive self confidence. That makes us nervous because our job requires lots of training, irrelevant of prior work experience. What we do is very specific. We see overconfidence as problematic, because we need someone who is willing to accept new training, This training is going to be exactly the same, for a kid out of college vs. someone with 25 years of experience. We want someone trainable.

I really get turned off by someone, who is reciting their resume. I want to know those things that are not on your resume. I get pretty bored. I also want to hear why are the points highlighted on that resume important. I can read the resume myself - and I actually did before you walked in.

We also don't appreciate a too laid back attitude. This is something we are seeing a lot especially with recent college grads. Most of them come in as if they are having a chat with a friend over coffee. An interview is a serious, poised occasion and we expect candidates to treat it as such.

One last thing, I can smell defeated attitudes a mile away. I actually told a girl in a meet and greet to perk up a bit. She asked me to look at her resume and point out weaknesses. I responded by saying," your resume is perfectly fine, I think what is bringing you down is your attitude, it comes across as defeated". We ended up hiring her. I did not interview her thought. We never have the same person running meet and greets vs. initial interviews, because that might create bias.

You are an excellent candidate. Keep at it!

Kari

Veteran

I apologize that I haven't had time to come back and properly respond to this thread, but I really want to thank you for your wise words.

I am worried about the seeming disconnect between my experience and my aptitude that a couple of the hiring managers pointed out, but I'm not giving up by any means. I'm still carefully searching and trying to get in about 10-15 applications per week. I've gone out on a couple interviews that I knew were really long shots because the company preferred to have industry experience that I simply don't have - but they wanted to meet with me anyway.

I'm trying to develop a thick skin about it, but the exhaustion is hard to overcome. I can definitely turn on the energy for a job interview, but doing so over and over, and working, and having a long commute - well, I'm basically just crashing when I come home. If nothing pans out within the next couple weeks I may need to scale back for a bit of a rest, even though I would like to get out.

I honestly don't want to go too deeply into my frustrations with my current job (feel welcome to PM me) but suffice to say that most of my dissatisfaction is due to the culture and systems/processes entrenched in the company I'm currently at, and less to do with the industry as a whole. But I'm open to making a total shift into a different business area, and in fact have applied (and once made it to the first round interview) for positions that use similar skills but are in a different subject area than where I have previously worked.

Anyway, I'm trying to keep my chin up, and I will definitely let you know how this all pans out.

JulieJohn

Veteran

Kari, I feel your pain. It sounds like you're working hard at the search, and nobody can fault you in the effort category! Some things are just so elusive in life, and that's tiresome for sure. You are a gem, probably an emerald, and the right job will be lucky to have you.