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OT - dating help

Theresa

(website)

Veteran

WARNING - this is LOOOOONGG LOL

OK I'm feeling really cautious (and embarrassed) about posting this, but I need to get some varied opinions on this topic... I haven't told enough people in real life (well you know what I mean), to get enough opinions.

As you all know I have a crush on one of my brothers friends, and he feels the same way. But, he told me the relationship with my brothers is a "complication" and then proceeded to tell me I couldn't fall asleep next to him (we were just chatting after a looong night out and were lying on the lounge room floor next to each other) or they might get the wrong idea...

Now, part of me refuses to chase men - I'm 30 years old and know that I'm worthy of being chased, so should just let him decided to do it. BUT I'm really wanting to actually tell him that the brothers thing doesn't have to be a deal-breaker and we could see how it goes without them even knowing and we are both mature enough to deal with that.

But I don't want to seem like I'm throwing myself at him... Or bossing him around...

I guess I just feel like the lessons I've learned in life tell me that sometimes you have to take risks and not doing what is considered the "right" thing in order to find and have happiness...

I have barely slept or eaten or concentrated on anything this week because I really don't know what to do. I don't ever want to come between my brothers and their friends, but I just think its not fair that for the first time in over a decade I actually feel like I'm a desirable woman and have a man interested in me, that I am also interested in, and my stinking brothers could be in the way... ESPECIALLY because I really don't think it would bother them at all - they would probably love to see me happy and him too...

So what do you guys think - what would you do - talk to him some more or just leave it be? I have no doubt if I have a few drinks and get a few moments alone with him I will spill all of this, but would prefer to think it through before that happens LOL

I know there are plenty more men out there - but I guess I am a bit hung up on him at the moment because I know what a fab man he is and the only other interest I have had has been from drunken men wanting to take me home - and that is NOT happening if I have no idea who they are LOL

*sigh* Is this what its like? My family set me up with my ex (another reason I don't want my family to matter in this decision!), when I was 17 and I'd been with him until I was 28...

Thanks for reading my rambling... I am seriously feeling nauseous because I can't eat enough and I'm so conflicted as to what to do...

General

22 replies

Latest reply was from Queen Mum

Queen Mum

Veteran

I need to go to bed, but just wanted to say take a deep breath I'll get back and share some thoughts tomorrow.

taylor

Veteran

This is complicated. Of course you are worthy of being chased and he no doubt is attracted to you:)

He may value his friendship with your brother more at this point in your relationship, after all your brother and he have had a longer relationship and he obviously doesn't want to jeopardize it at this early stage.

There seems to be some unwritten code of ethics about *dating the sister* My daughter dated my sons best friend... it didn't end well and they have never spoken since and that was 10 yrs. ago. Seems respecting ones sister is akin to not knowing one's sisters in such an intimate way...

I say...hang in there, take it slow and let him make the move to mention it to your brother...he doesn't want to go behind his back, which I think shows respect for your brother and you. There is always the risk things between the 2 of you won't last and that could forever alter his relationship with your brother, and not something they could discuss objectively...meaning your brother would likely side with you.

RoseandJoan

Veteran

Oh Theresa, please try to get some rest, it is so much easier to see things clearly when you are rested.

I'm sure your crush DOES like you but does he like you enough? How long are you supposed to wait while he decides if the relationship is worth the risk? It seams very unfair of him to leave you in this state.

I honestly think life is too short for games, if you like him I would speak to him and ask him for a straight answer.

Katiepea

(website)

Veteran

Theresa

What advice would you give your daughters if they came to you with this dilemma? What would you say? What would be your reasons? Thinking from this view-point may help you gain a little clarity into the sitatuation.

I do think you should tread extremely carefully before you let yourself get into a "secret" relationship. Going out for a coffee is one thing, but if you think it could go further, you need to be very careful.

You deserve to be treated like a princess, not be hidden away in the shadows.

rute

Veteran

I didn't read what the others said, so I won't be influenced. Well, I know, here in Portugal we are a bit tradicional.. I've always learn that men like to conquer, to chase he must be the one to give the first step, but we know that women are very intelligent, you can prepare everything and let him believe that he is the one that went after you (I don't know if I made myself clear, it's difficult to explain in English).. but don't chase him openly (they don't like to feel that they are the ones that are beeing chased, they like to feel they are in charge)!

rute

Veteran

oh.. forget, believe me, if he is REALLY interested he will go after you.. that is a universal true! If they are REALLY interested there are no excuse in the world!

Theresa

(website)

Veteran

Thank you so much girls - you know I felt so much better once I'd just written it all out!

Kim - THANK YOU - I did take a deep breath and it was fabulous! Looking forward to your thoughts.

Taylor - the situation with your kids is exactly what I would want to avoid... I suspect he thinks my brothers are more protective of me than they really are too - they play tough but they (brothers) and I know they are bluffing... (They've told me so LOL).

Julie - I think from our conversation last weekend that he is in as much of a state as I am... but you're right - what did he expect telling me how he felt? We gals don't expect boys to talk about stuff like that!

KP - That's an interesting way of thinking about it - but I just can't picture it cos my girls are so young LOL But, I was just thinking what if one of my friends wanted to date one of my brothers - I'd say go for it but be grown up about it if it doesn't last... And you are right - a *secret* relationship wouldn't be good - I was just picturing the first couple of dates kind of thing IYKWIM.

Rute - that's pretty much the opinion I have too - guys like to be the conqueror - I'd say it might be universal! And you know, he did make the first move - he told me how he felt... But good point about letting him think he went after me... And I guess if we keep seeing each other out, and it all gets too much for him he may be more active... or not!

You know, the fact that he respects my brothers (and me - I think that's pretty obvious actually from what he's said the other night), just makes it worse cos it means he's even more of a good guy LOL

The sting in it for me is that my little brother went out with his little sister a few years ago for a month or so (less I think), and he has told me it didn't bother him at all. So its like he respects my brothers friendship more than my little brother respects his... (my littlest brother was a bit of a tart though...)

This may sound ridiculous, but I have never actually been out on a proper date in my life before... and you know, this is the first time in my life that I feel really comfortable with who I am and what I want - I was still such a baby when I started seeing my ex-H. No wonder I'm in such a tizz LOL

Looking forward to the comments from the US contingent when they all awake!

Thank you all for keeping me SANE!!!

I'm now off to have a glass of wine, a bubble bath and a nice relaxing soak!

stringy

Veteran

No wonder your head is buzzing, this has the potential to get very complicated. But it doesn't have to, if you keep focused on your own needs.

If I were you, next opportunity you get, I'd say something like "I'm a big girl and I don't consult my brothers about my relationship decisions. If you want to give 'us' a try, call me and we can get a coffee or something. If not, no worries." Look him in the eye, but keep it cheeky and fun rather than angsty.

All you can do is let him know where you stand. After that, it's up to him to decide if he wants to pursue you. He seems like a great guy, but you shouldn't have to read his mind for him. And who knows what's gone on in his past that might make him hesitate - we've all got baggage

If it goes on too long, you might have to get your brothers to give him a kick in the bum about it, haha

Hope your bubble bath and wine are lovely and relaxing...

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

In my extremely limited experience, a guy who is making excuses is just trying to spare your feelings. Like rute said- if he likes you enough there will be no stopping him.
Despite your mutual attraction (which just isn't enough-you have your girls to think about) I would put this guy out of your mind and move on. He clearly is not prepared to get into a serious relationship with you right now.

rute

Veteran

Amen CS!

Maya

Veteran

I'm of the same mindset as Khris. I have long ago given up on all the analysis and frustration that accompanies these situations. If his allegiance to your brothers trumps his feelings for you, then it means just one thing: He does not want a relationship with you. Not so nice to hear, but better to get over it early than wait and become further ensnared and ultimately heartbroken.

Time to clear your head and move on. If he decides otherwise, great, but if not, there are other fish in the sea! It breaks my heart when I think of how much time and energy my friends expend on guys like this. I have found that when they REALLY like you, they'll pursue you no matter what. Nothing gets in the way.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, though. I haven't had a boyfriend in years (can't say I'm unhappy about that), and the only crush I have now is extremely shallow and silly...which is the only kind of crush I think I'm interested in having. Relationships are an endless headache for me.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I guess you'll never know until you get down to the nitty gritty and ask, Theresa. After all, if you don't ask, you don't get!

If you can live with the ambiguity - move on. If you can't, you need to have a heart to heart and get the niggly things on your mind off your chest. I know that's not easy, but that's what I would do given your situation.

JuliaInGermany

Theresa, I think that he has been very honest in talking to you. He told you how things are at the moment and I'd leave it at that. I wouldn't attempt talking him into anything he is not up to at the moment. If he is really interested, he will come around. If he isn't then you'll only regret it later that you tried to convince him.

Mind you, I am all in favour of talking about everything in a relationship. But I don't think that it is so very helpful to talk things to death before the relationship even started. KNow what I mean?

Hey, you are a pretty girl. There are more subtle methods to make him change his mind than talking it over again. Meanwhile enjoy the fact that he is attracted to you (and be open to meet someone else, too).

Just my two cents.

rae

(website)

Veteran

Oh my... I unfortunately have to agree with Maya and CS here. I think he would have asked for your brother's blessing long ago if he was actually going to do it -- who knows, maybe they have already talked and decided it was a bad idea, but it really sounds like an excuse to me.

I sympathize with you, as dating is probably the hardest thing in the world. Personally, I would make a point to go out and see other people. As my girlfriends and I all have to remind each other: your time is SO precious, and you owe it to yourself to spend it wisely.

JennyK (NC)

Oh Theresa - you thought yours was long? Wait until you see this novel!!!

I only had to read the first couple of paragraphs before I started shouting at my computer, Teresa.

If he really, really likes you, your brother will not stand in the way. Full stop. You don't need to tell him because he will not let it stop him.

I also think it's a BAD idea to have a couple of drinks in you when you're anywhere near this guy, because you will spill and you'll be sorry later. My experience is that men also really, really hate the "Can we talk?" sort of conversation. It puts them on the spot.

Rute expressed it really well, actually! Men often say that they like a woman who chases, but I think it's pretty biologically instinctual for them to want to "win" you over despite some obstacle (a brother, a class difference, a perceived "level" difference, etc.).

I promise, promise, promise you that he is not the first nor the last man who will be interested in you.

Theresa said, "the only other interest I have had has been from drunken men wanting to take me home."

My dear, dear Theresa! You need to be in situations where there are eligible men WHO AREN'T DRINKING!!!

That doesn't mean you have to rule out a man who visits a pub once a week, but I wouldn't even give out my number to or accept a date from someone who has had more than one beer. Seriously. If he's still crazy for you the next day, he'll find a way to track you down!

You are a special, precious woman with special, precious children and you deserve nothing less than to have people in your life who will love you and your family and treat you always with dignity and respect.

Please do allow yourself to be courted properly. It is very rewarding for both the man and the woman!

Bottom line:
* Proper courting is great. No matter how physically attracted you are to someone, attraction is not an indicator of how compatible you will be. The more you get to know a man, the more (or less) attractive he will become to you, and a man's true potential for a relationship with you can only be discovered with time.

* Virtually nothing will stop a man who is truly interested (in more than a shag) and who has received some (very subtle) encouragement.

* Live YOUR life and make it full and satisfying. Make him have to fit in with YOUR life - don't be always waiting in the wings, at the ready. That, in and of itself, will make you very attractive. Promise!

* Let him feel like he's having to work a little at winning you. I don't think that means pretending not to like him if you do or something like that, but people value that for which they have to work! If he isn't willing to put forth the effort to woo and win you, what effort is he likely to put forth in maintaining a relationship? Don't make it too easy.

* Always remember that your daughters deserve to see their mom as a rolemodel; a woman who stands tall and loves herself and doesn't allow anyone to treat her poorly.

Big {{{hugs}}} to you! I know this is a weird, exciting, scary time for you!

Rosie

Veteran

So much wisdom! What a tough situation - sending you hugs! It's been a while since I really liked someone (hmm, odd to say since I just got out of a six-month relationship this week) but I know all the angst that sometimes comes with it.

Everyone has said some really terrific things, and I wholly agree with everything that Jenny just wrote. Terrific advice. I don't know that I agree with some that you should move on completely - some men take time, and he may need more time until he's ready to really go for a relationship with you. It does not mean he won't get there or that he doesn't like you enough. Perhaps the fact that things didn't work out between his sister and your brother has put some fear into him that things may not work out with you. You can still live your life 100% and have a good time and still be interested in him.

I do know that stressing about it doesn't help. Losing sleep doesn't help. I mean, if you are going to use those feminine wiles on him, you must be refreshed and at your best self!

In the meantime, are there activities you can get involved in to meet other people outside your current social/family circle?

Theresa

(website)

Veteran

oh my goodness - such a group of wonderful wise women and I feel truly blessed that you have been honest with me and shared your wisdom. (I'm a little teary now! I'm actually overwhelmed and am probably going to have to come back and read this a few times for it all to sink in).

I definitely had a better night's sleep last night and am feeling much better today!

Jenny I really appreciate your novel! And I love your little notes.

I also appreciate you guys telling me to forget him. I can understand the reasoning, but I'll be honest and say that for now, I'm not ready to give up on him completely just yet.

He is a shy guy and my brothers have told me he has really only started to get more confidence in the past 6-12 months, so I do expect him to be a little slower off the mark than more outgoing guys and he hasn't had loads of girlfriends in the past.

I do need to find ways to meet other people, but I only have 2 nights per fortnight without my girls, and at least one of those nights is usually spent hanging out with my brothers at their place or at my home and the other night is generally going out with my brothers or a good girlfriend of mine. I've been asking my friends how they met their partners and all of them were family friends, colleagues, or internet dating... I have a deep concern for my own personal safety and I just don't trust internet dating.

Right now I'm feeling like I'm going out tonight to have a fab time - a couple of girlfriends may be available later in the evening, so I will make a point of catching up with them after dinner if they are. And thanks to you guys I know I have a lovely little outfit to wear and will look hot!

I know that I deserve to be happy and treated like a princess and my girls absolutely deserve a happy mummy who is a good role model. That was one of the reasons I ended my marriage - I didn't want my girls growing up seeing me being ignored and unhappy. They need to know how men should treat women, and how women should treat themselves.

rute

Veteran

don't think too much, have fun, forget him, because I have a feeling he will come after you..

taylor

Veteran

I still say hang in there...he sounds like a great guy.(respectful too) This relationship is fairly new...let it take it's natural course for awhile, he knows how you feel and he is also attracted to you..:) No need to pressure yourselves one way or another...love will always find it's own way:)

Kristine

Veteran

I love Jenny's advice and I think she's right on. I don't think you need to close the door on this, but you should let it unfold as it's meant to. If something more develops, your brothers will get the clue slowly, which is better than them finding you together on the floor (innocent or not).

I understand the brother dynamic, my husband knew my brother before me. And my brother has dated my friends too. It's a little awkward at first, but a relationship is different than just messing around. He was doing you a favor and treating you like a lady. I think that's a good sign.

shiny

Veteran

This thread put a smile on my face, as it reminded me of my First Love. My first love was my brother's best friend. He was also quite shy. It took him a few months before he got the courage to ask me out - and first, he cleared it with my brother. He and I dated on and off for 6 years, all through high school and college. Everyone thought we'd eventually marry. Today we do not talk at all; I broke his heart and he can't bear to be around me. But he is still wonderful friends with my brother, so I get my updates and I know he's happy.

One idea that nobody suggested is to talk to your brother about it. Perhaps he could help move his friend in your direction....

Queen Mum

Veteran

I meant to get back to this sooner, just didn't have a ton of time to sit down and write out all my thoughts. But now I don't have to because Jenny did it for me. I agree with everything she said wholeheartedly.
One thing I"d encourage you to remember is that a crush (while it is very real, and I don't at all mean to minimize your feelings) is really hard to think clearly through *because* it is so rooted in emotion. Not that we don't all go through that oogle google stage with our loves, but we have to recognize that those feelings come and go. Relationships that have strong friendship foundations are the ones that tend to last through the ups and downs of our emotions. I would encourage you to continue to build a friendship with this man and let a relationship unfold in it's due time. You can always move forward into a more intimate relationship from a friendship, but it is not nearly as easy to move the other direction and your mate should be your best friend.