OT: according to this, if you carry fake goods, you are a lier/thief - YouLookFab Forum

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OT: according to this, if you carry fake goods, you are a lier/thief

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion.....g-trouble/
according to this article, women who carry fake designer goods are more likely to "lie, cheat and steal". What a load of hogwash. I dont have any fake designer stuff but my former coworker had several bags because there is no way she could afford the real thing, A lot of women who carry these do because the real ones are too expensive so to say that they all have major charcter flaws is really nuts,
I wouldn't buy it myself but I can understand why some women do

General

21 replies

Latest reply was from Isabel

christieanne

Veteran

How would they even determine something like that? I don't support counterfeits but this story seems a bit farfetched - I agree with you.

Mochi

Veteran

Ha, Well, come on, look at the source. Very very silly.

I always thought it was a bit harsh, too, that you were participating in a crime if you bought fake (illegal) goods like handbags. What if you didn't know?

Isabel

Veteran

Wow, those are some heavy duty conclusions about someone's character. I am not sure what to think. Personally, I have always been against forged goods for many of the reasons stated in the article. I also used to own stock in Coach, so it was really on my radar. I think that duplicates or a trickle down is ok, but forgery is different for me. I know that I wrote about this before when you were considering the Hermes bracelet.

I do think that some people need to examine why the need the logo and not something nice and cheaper without the logo ( like trickle down fashion ). However, claiming that someone with a fake bag is somehow MORE dishonest than people who take pens from work, is quite a leap.

The one thing that was particularly disturbed was the last sentence that said to "act accordingly" if you see someone with a fake bag. What does that mean ? Judge them and ostracize them ? Really ?

Diana

Veteran

Yes, I think this article is really unnecessarily harsh. Although I personally do not buy forgeries, I am pretty knowledgeable about fashion and recognize that those items are forgeries and that they are doing the real companies a disservice. I think there are many people who don't know or don't care about fashion and probably just own the fake bag because it looked nice or whatever. They may not even know it's a fake, so I really don't think it's fair to assume that everyone who carries a fake handbag is a criminal or somehow morally defunct.

RandomThoughts (Andrea)

Veteran

Well, while I don't buy it for a moment, it SAYS they have research to back it up. Peer reviewed, I wonder?

I read a lot of scientific extracts on behavior and it is always very interesting to me how journalists often skew findings to make it more relate-able or interesting to readers. Also, seems that journalists often confuse correlation with causation which I am sure the scientists do not.

Despite the author's seeming credentials, I am suspect of any scientist that associates themselves openly with an organization that presents a very strong social and political narrative. [ref: Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team.] Of course, they don't say what sort of doctor Dr.Ablow is.

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

Isabel: I totally agree with you. While I don't approve of forged goods and don't carry them, I find it crazy that this person(a proffessor, no less) would say that you should "treat them accordingly". I guess that means treat them as a cheat and a thief? He should be embarrassed by saying such a horrible thing. Where i live, i see women carrying fake designer bags every single day. So am I supposed to assume that they are all lacking in moral character? Pleease

Anonymous

That's a really, really harsh and judgemental assumption to make! I seriously question the "research" they conducted.

bj1111

Veteran

here is a selection of peer reviewed pubs from the original scientist who inferred that individuals who carry fakes are more likely to cheat. the linkage seems to be self-deception as a psychological state which can be associated withor brought about by carrying fakes. the last article is a reference to the orginal research performed on the subject of fakes piblished in a journal with an impact factor of 4.7 (rounded).

ps. the article didn't compare carrying fakes to stealing pens, tho i bet both will be alleged to be associated with cheating to a similar degree.

pps. no necessarily endorsing the view nor the evidence. merely presenting more info for consideration,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21383150

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20648875

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20483851

RandomThoughts (Andrea)

Veteran

Thank you! Behavioral science is fascinating.

Kim

Veteran

Hmmmm, guess I'd better put my fake Gucci away...

Really though, I bought one and one only "fake" purse in NYC when I was there because that's almost a part of the shopping culture. You *have* to go to a back room (or basement in our case) and haggle for what you *know* is a fake! I bought a purse that I would actually use, and still do to this day. I never even think of the label on it (and if it wasn't stamped I would have bought and used it anyway, I love it that much). I would actually never buy a real Gucci as I'd be too afraid to carry something that expensive in my real life.

I really am a nice person though...really!! LOL

biscuitsmom

Veteran

I agree...snort!

bj1111

Veteran

ok...the authors say that a person is more likelyto cheat NOT that he or she WILL. also, the increased likelihood, presumably an odds ratio need to be multiplied by the baseline likelihood to cheat. for example if someone is prone to cheating 1 out of 10 times and carrying a fake makes you 3 times more likely to cheat...then that would be 3 out of 10 times. if the baseline probability is 1 out of 1000 times, then after the fakes, 3out of 1000. now mulitply that with the number of occasions to cheat in a given day.

so what does it mean? it means i need to have a slurpee, the genuine stuff, not that fake icee. what am i? a liar? ;p

Anonymous

I bought a fake Chanel bag when I was very young and didn't know what I was doing. A flight attendant was carrying them into the country and selling them out of her basement! It was real leather, and that was all I cared about. Later, I learned that this was illegal and she could have gotten in big trouble. I started worrying about taking my bag on a trip and not being able to get it back into the country through customs. Eventually it broke and that was the end of that.

Funnily enough I was at Goodwill just last week and spied another Chanel forgery. Again, the leather was real (I drool) and it was a classic tote shape. It was a little banged up, but I knew I could dye it and make it look like new. It was only 6 or 7 dollars. I wish you could have heard my inner dialogue as I strolled around the store with it in my cart, having heart palpitations. It went something like this:

"Maybe I can take the flap off the pocket that has the intertwined C's."

"No you can't, you dummy, and you know it!"

"Well, they could stand for clearlyclaire, right?"

"Yeah, NO."

"But this is a great bag! It's classic! It's never go out of style!"

"Yeah, well half the fun of getting a great deal is getting to write about it. Are you going to show this to all your YLF friends? Huh? You know it's one thing to copy a general style, but this is an outright forgery."

"How am I hurting the grand house of Chanel fashion by buying this bag from Goodwill? Sheesh!"

"Well, if you're not able to carry it with your head held high, than something must be wrong! This is your conscience talking."

"Maybe I could carry it backwards, so you don't see the C's. I swear I just like it because its a good leather bag! I'd like it just as much without the logo. Swear!"

"Do you have ANY idea how much a real Chanel bag like that would cost?"

"Um. No."

"Well it's more than you have! Are you willing to pretend that you would spend that much money on a handbag? Because that's what you're doing here. Is that what you're about?"

*sniff* "No. I guess not."

"Do you want to put yourself in the same category as all of the ill-shod women in these parts wearing fake designer bags? Because that's your other option. People will probably assume it's fake. I mean, seriously. Look where you shop. Who are you kidding?"

"Yeah, I guess you're right. But I don't want someone else to get it! That wouldn't be fair!" *pouting*

"This is not about them. This is about YOU. Are you embarrassed of living within your means?"

"No, of course not!"

"Well you know there are people who look to you as an example. You want to be able to show them how to create style without a lot of money. Are you going to recommend that everyone runs out and buys fakes? Is that the fast track to having good style?"

"Of course not."

"Besides, Ines de La Fressange says it right in her book, 'Counterfeit is counter fashion!'"

"UGH! You're KILLING me here! OKAY! I'll put it back. Man. You really know how to spoil a girl's fun."

So yeah, I put it back, and it almost killed me. I would like to think that doing the hard thing and putting the bag back *does* say something about my integrity (in regards to the article you linked to). However, I don't think I was any more likely to lie, cheat or steal when I carried my fake Chanel 25+ years ago.

christieanne

Veteran

Oh Claire! I love your inner dialogue. Someone I work with gave me an imitation (not a fake because there was no logo at all) Hermes Birkin for Christmas once and I used it twice but finally sold in a white elephant sale because i knew carrying it would look like I was trying to be something I wasn't. I can't imagine having the cash to actually carry a Birkin. If I could spend that much on bags, I 'd go Celine or Chanel anyway

Kristin L

Veteran

Those are some interesting papers. One thing that bugs me about when the media reports on a research paper, they don't distinguish between more likely to and actually doing it. This comic explains it perfectly

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1174

Here's a good one to decipher what some phrases seen in papers mean

http://www.phdcomics.com/comic.....omicid=405

I spend too much time reading these...

Isabel

Veteran

Victoria, exactly ! I completely agree. The writer acts of if people who do it are societal pariahs.

Years ago, there was a study published in Businessweek that stated that CEOs were more prone to cheat at golf than anyone else.

I am not sure what the take aways are supposed to be...but I think one has to be very careful with generalizations and character judgements ( particularly based on one action/interaction ) . That is a slippery slope IMO.

BJ111, loved the links. Thanks. Self deception is really amazing. I once read a book called, How We Know What Isn't So. Really fascinating stuff.

Sarah A

Veteran

interesting read.... i espacially loved Claire's logic! It seems I see at least 10 fake bags everytime I go to the grocery store... better watch out for my ice cream?! LOL.

I am positive at least one person I know with a fake bag doesnt know that they are fakes, i just hope they didnt spend too much on them! I did pass up a fake Coach for 3.50 at goodwill the other day, but was pretty proud of myself for identifying it as such.

Julie

Veteran

Consider the source, people. I mean, really?

Mander

(website)

Veteran

Unless it has a big fake logo on it, I wouldn't have a clue myself. I would imagine that the vast majority of fakes fall into the category of "designer inspired", and if you aren't in the know about designer logos and styles you wouldn't recognize a knock off.

I also find the tone of the article rather interesting from a political standpoint, especially the third point -- equating someone who buys a fake product with swindlers who cheated others out of millions. I can see the point, to an extent, but it all seems a bit over the top.

Kari

Veteran

Personally, I take news articles from Fox about as seriously as articles on the Daily Mail. And Kristin makes a good point about how the article is worded. Anything to cause a sensation and indignation, because that's what sells.

And the closing line?
"So, next time you see the stitching on a Louis Vuitton bag and realize it doesn’t quite look like the real deal, it’s fair to conclude that the person carrying it isn’t quite the real deal, either—and act accordingly."
Come ON, really?

I've never bought a counterfeit bag/product and don't plan to - I'm really more into the overall look and quality of a product, not the logo or visible brand name - but I don't judge friends who do.

Isabel

Veteran

I just read this article again and looked up some info on the book that is referenced. It made me realize that the article is very misogynistic. The title of the article is really over the top and extreme ( not what the book author insinuated ) . But of all the things that were included in the book why did the article, why did this guy choose women and handbags.........Hmmmmm.