Cat calling used to be par for the course when, as young female university students, we walked to campus past construction sites in the 60s and 70s. It was also common on the street where groups of teenage males hung out. In my mind, those remarks had nothing to do with our attractiveness--heck, half the time we were bundled up in winter gear! Traveling without a male companion in certain countries as a young woman also meant suffering through episodes of pinching and grabbing in crowded, public places. It was instructive watching how older women dealt with that harassment by spatting out a few words while slapping the offender's hand or face--aggression was met with aggression.

To me, as annoying and disgusting as that kind of cat calling was, it had nothing to do with ME because it was so obviously directed at any female who happened to be in that particular location at that moment. To those males, I was just another set of long hair, boobs, and a butt on legs and the remarks said more about the kind of person spewing that garbage than about me. I got used to handling that kind of obnoxious behaviour in the same way those Italian women did if the cat callers invaded my person space--looking disdainful, ignoring them, or even publicly slapping away an errant hand.

Sexual harassment, however, was another matter, especially when I encountered it my workplace. That I felt WAS directed at me. As others have said, it was about some male trying to wield power by forcing me into a stereotyped image of what he thought my role ought to be. That perception got skewed when I refused to accept those "compliments". Most of my male colleagues quickly caught on to where the boundaries were drawn. If they mentioned my appearance, it was more along the "nice tie" kind of joking that occurs between friends. I tried very hard never to blur the lines between me and my male colleagues in my work environments.

But I do enjoy male attention, compliments, and side glances when the situation is right and when the intent is to attract me instead of repel me. A homeless man, sitting on the street, put a smile on my face a few days ago when he looked up, smiled, and called out "Nice boots!" as I walked by. He got a smile and a dollar in his jar as I wished him a nice day in return. The transaction pleased both of us. That encounter reminded me so much of the "sei bella!" compliment young women would often get in Rome. The speakers were often older gentlemen who would look at you directly, kiss their fingertips, and deliver the compliment with a smile. Getting one of those thrown my way would always put an extra spring in my step. In my mind, the key to this kind of "cat calling" is the positive intent and the recognition of both parties' uniqueness in that moment--a momentary kind of flirtation between men and women which is fun and lighthearted. But maybe, in this era of sexual politics, this kind of flirtation isn't possible anymore? Too bad, because, done in the right spirit, it can be empowering to both parties.

Suz, I waitressed at the university professor's club -- a restaurant open to the public but frequented mostly be instructors -- so maybe that's why. University profs probably know better than to harass students.

ma342, yes, I imagine it would feel gross. It's not like I'm wishing for catcalls -- just wondering why the heck it's never happened to me!

Gaylene -- well now I feel even worse! I never get male attention of any kind anymore (and frankly not much ever!), even the kind of lighthearted flirtation you describe. That second kind would be nice. Wah.

I"ll join your pity party, AZ. Never been cat-called or flirted with. How does it work, exactly, lol? No double-takes, sidelong looks either. But plenty of sexual harassment and several instances of men exposing themselves *ick*. This was in India.

My experience is similar to what some others have already touched on. When I lived in certain areas, catcalling seemed to be part of the local "flavor," for lack of a better way to put it. In those areas, a woman could be walking down the street wearing sweats two sizes too big and still be subjected to a multitude of "hey good lookin'" remarks (though usually they were much, much more vulgar than that). However, I've lived in other places where catcalling just didn't happen.

I also agree that catcalling tends to happen more often when men are together in groups. When I was in college, the area around campus was really bad as far as that kind of thing occurring. I remember one incident in particular where a group of guys in a pickup truck began making horrible, frighteningly obscene comments to me about my physique and what they wanted to "do" to me. I was terrified. And it was obvious that they were egging each other on.

Aziraphale, I think you answered the question when you said you don't walk alone very often. Literally every time it's happened to me I've been walking alone. I spend a lot of time walking and riding buses in an urban area. The only time my husband has ever seen it happen we were on a bus together, but sitting separately. But even having a female friend with me seems to discourage it.

I think it's really interesting how people are differentiating between harassment and genuine compliments. I would say 95% of the comments I've gotten have been polite, not crude. However, for me, having comments about my appearance called out at me still feels intrusive and can make me feel unsafe, even if the sentiment is relatively nice. At the risk of seeming rude, I almost alway act as if I didn't hear.

Aziraphale, I think the kind of brief, public flirtation I described in my last paragraph isn't common these days because attitudes and times work against it. Most younger males wouldn't have clue how deliver a flirtatious remark without resorting to vulgarity and crudeness. And most women today just aren't interested in filtering out the oblique messages inherent in public flirtation and in tailoring a response to fit the sender and situation. It's easier just to ignore, scowl, retaliate in kind, or retreat into a shell.

My sons would be very leery of public flirtation because they've been schooled to see the females in their lives as smart, intelligent equals. They'd recoil at making suggestive comments to a stranger or worry about having a remark misinterpreted so they stick to complimenting their wives. If I could hazard a guess, I'd say your dilemma comes hanging out in places where males are overly eager to treat women with respect and consideration.

I will say that it has been happening to me since I was in my teens and now that I'm nearing 40, hasn't really died off. I do have the face that says *F-You* quite clearly when I'm annoyed, and I'm not above cursing someone out on the streets. Then of course, you get to deal with the inevitable hurt feelings of said man who was "Just trying to tell you how beautiful you are, but screw you". Oh ok, yeah.... still not gonna happen buddy! I refuse to feel guilty because you gave me a creepy stalker man compliment and I dont HAVE to accept it. I won't accept it, and now that I'm older, I'm also much bolder. Because I have on a dress, or a skirt, or even my jeans, I did NOT get dressed for your amusement or enjoyment. Sadly, it's hard for men to reconcile this, and they're "genuinely" baffled when you have a major attitude about their harassing "compliment" of you.

I've been catcalled in groups, and in single servings, I'll say it's MUCH more fun to shame a man in a group though, so those are my favorites :).

ETA I have the typical hourglass figure that's hard to hide in anything. It annoys me greatly that people think they're the first to notice this and need to give me a "compliment" for it. Gee thanks, I'm just slumming after hot yoga, in my leggings, all extra funk-tastic and wet, and I don't need to have something I'm self conscious about constantly brought to my attention...you're gonna get an attitude 97% of the time from me!

I meant to give my history of all this, but I got distracted.

One story somewhat related. When I was a fairly new lawyer, one of my fellow associates insisted I go to a lunch with one of his clients and other young male associates. I was the only woman there. So we get the the restaurant and this old fart makes some comment about what? I don't remember exactly but that he wanted to bring along his porn collection is what he meant. The other lawyers sort of froze, but I breezily said, "Great! I'll bring my collection of Playgirl photos!" (Don't know if it's still around, but Playgirl was a 1970s magazine that featured male beefcake.)

The old and very unattractive client shut up and we had a nice lunch.

Usually I am slow to come up with a good comeback, but not that day.

I have a story to add, too.

When I was in college I was walking to a dinner thing. I was dressed in some sort of slinky dress and high heels. I was strolling down Main Street and a car whizzed past; the passenger (a young college guy) rolled down the window and started whistling. The drive turned to add his appreciation and, as he was not looking ahead...drove into the car in front of him. He wasn't going very fast and there wasn't much more than a dent but oh boy.

AZ, I have had a similar experience to you. I believe it's mostly because I am tall. I am not cute or curvy. I have never been particularly pretty. I walk with authority and power and I have always felt that I have authority, confidence, and power, even when I was a teenager. I was a good athlete. I did well academically. I had good friends. I even worked as a lifeguard and while wearing my skimpy swimsuit no one dared to harass or catcall. I have been told many times by my friends that they were intimidated by me before they got to know me. Something about the first impression I give off is intimidating and off putting. Men have never harassed me, ever, and if they objectify me, they must do it behind my back and out of earshot. I think I am saying this is related to my physical stature and personality combined.

I have a friend who gets catcalls, etc. all the time. We have had this conversation. She has said it's possible that I don't notice the harassment because it doesn't rise to enough of an annoyance level for me to bother with it. That would essentially mean, I ignore it and don't react which in turn would quickly extinguish it.

I have a few thoughts on this based on my experience of this phenomenon, and some of it might seem contradictory.

I've had my share of this over the years, but it never seems threatening or intimidating. Sometimes I can actually tell when it's about to happen, and you know what? Meeting someone in the eye and giving them a smile has often worked to disarm them. On the other hand, there are times I think my natural Resting Bitch Face has served to warn people away.

I get a number of comments, even though I'm now obviously middle-aged, that walk the line. They especially seem to happen when I'm in my workout gear, either going for a run, or walking to or from the gym, and always in the urban environment (Baltimore, not Annapolis). There are garden-variety compliments from passing strange men on the street like "you look nice today," which happen when I'm in street clothes, not workout gear, and I take those at face value and say "thank you." Then there was the guy who felt compelled to remark on my "baby-making hips" (!!) That clearly crosses the line and gets a dirty look in response. I was so taken aback I didn't even think of a vocal comeback. I've heard some very direct remarks about my body when I'm out running, and that's not cool, even if they are not unkind.

I have a curvy body type, and I agree with others who have mentioned that seems to invite comments (even when I was skinny), but I think sometimes the natural RBF mitigates it -- that, and I tend to walk quickly and purposefully, and I also tend to look passersby in the face, and I often give them a small smile or even a "good morning." I think this often helps to humanize us in the eyes of would-be harassers.

Gaylene's remarks also reminded me that I got a number of comments of the "que linda mamacita" variety as recently as when I was exploring around Havana last year, and way back when I was in my 20s walking around Rome by myself. Women in many other countries besides the US definitely experience a lot of this to a greater degree.

Janet, that's exactly how it is. It very much depends on where you are, but in other countries it does not matter how tough you look or act, you *will* get harassed because that is part of the "culture". Of course, acting tough will deter them a bit but not completely.
For me, with repeated bad experiences with harassment, it came to a point where I was able to grab the hand of the offenders *before* they grabbed my behind and I gave them a good elbow in their belly. That left them without breath and their companions made fun of them instead of harassing me.
I know that harassment also exists in the US and I am not trying to minimize it but harassment is definitely worse in other countries. That's why I posted the video on how to deal with harassment, it rang true to me.

I'm so sorry; I started this thread and then abandoned it before it was finished. I had to put out a bunch of metaphorical fires all week.

SarahF, that must have been scary. Yikes.

Sammi, I've had genuine compliments from strangers quite often -- usually from a woman, and usually about my footwear or my coat! Very occasionally I've had a compliment from a man, but it has never been the harassing kind. It's usually from someone I know, but once in a while I'll get nice comments from random gentlemen about my clothing.

Gaylene, I see what you mean. My son is only nine, but I will certainly be teaching (and modelling!) appropriate behaviour toward women. And I think it's pretty much the norm where we live anyway.

Von, don't worry, I wasn't trying to suggest that women should be happy about getting harassed.

Love your stories, Em and MsMaven! Thanks for the chuckle.

Staysfit, I could see how being tall and no-nonsense might be a deterrent. I am not, however. I am short and slight, and even when I was young and pretty I never got harassed. So there must be more to it than that. I was hoping it maybe had something to do with the tomboyish way I dress.

Janet, the idea that one could "humanize" oneself in the eyes of a stranger by offering a greeting is an excellent one! I could see how that would work as a deterrent. (Btw, I really hate it when people comment on "child-bearing hips" -- this one can be particularly hurtful for women who wanted children and were unable to have them).

Joyce, it does sound like harassment is more of an everyday occurrence in the southern states and in South American countries, although I could be wrong. I've never been to either.