Nuns as a fashion influence? - YouLookFab Forum

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Nuns as a fashion influence?

Anonymous

I've always tended to wear black and white a lot, and never thought too much about it. People tease me that I'm easy to find in a crowd because they usually know what colors I'll be wearing! I was kind of chalking it up to laziness, but thanks to YLF, I'm thinking a little deeper now about how and why we dress ourselves, and it occurred to me that nuns might be the reason for the high percentage black and white. My parents, being devout Catholics sent all 5 of their girls to convent schools for grades K-12. My grade-school nuns (all from Ireland) wore the traditional habits with hair-concealing veils, in black and white. The only part of them that was visible was their faces. You couldn't even see their necks or ears. They had large rosaries hanging from their waists, which I think they used at prayer time. I used to study their habits with interest. They always looked neat as a pin, and very starchy. They seemed like creatures from another planet, and we lived in fear of them. But I think those nuns gave me a fashion brainwashing. Not just with all the black and white outfits, but just generally not being willing to uncover too much skin in public (which is probably good, since I live in a very sunny climate and have fair skin). Of course, they monitored how we dressed, and if our plaid skirts got too short, we got an earful (my ears are still ringing). Does anyone else out there have this "nun effect" going on?

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Dressing

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Anonymous

I wasn't raised Catholic, and my mom didn't let me dress in black (except for funerals) or red (she thought it was too racy or something). There was a very high importance on looking our best, though. Clothes had to be ironed, etc. And we dressed appropriately. No shorts to the mall, and only dresses to church, for example.

Aquamarine

Veteran

Funny. Years of Catholic school here, mostly taught by nuns. I remember a classmate getting chastised for wearing "rouge" when we all knew her cheeks were flushed because we just came in from recess. I guess I am a modest dresser but I am not sure I can attribute that to the nuns. And I do like black and white, but I have very dark hair so it's easy for me to default to that color scheme.

And, there are a couple of Catholic schools around here, and when they have a half day and the girls head out for lunch before going home, it's quite obvious they have hiked up the waistband of their uniform skirts
So I'm not sure the school is having ANY effect on their fashion sense or inhibitions. Society/culture is probably a stronger factor.

rabbit

Veteran

It's so interesting how individual taste develops, how much is nurture? How much nature? Severe black and white has been used by nuns but also Puritans, Quakers, and it shows up in menswear at least during various different eras. It's graphically pretty wonderful to my eye, but I can see how it was intended to be repressive of sensuality too.

Anonymous

Rabbit, I know! I feel rather naughty and less inhibited when I wear red or really anything colorful. Aquamarine, it took awhile for the influence to take hold. I was one of those rebellious skirt-hikers, but now I want the knees covered. BC, I was talking more about how I dress now. I wasn't a Wednesday Addams child, wearing black! My mother thought that was too outrageous.

rachylou

Veteran

Oh, gosh, I'm sure I have the nun effect going on and have to be careful not to fall back on dressing like one, in case I'm mistaken for a nun groupie, lol. My spiritual director - her nickname was 'the flirt,' lol. She had so much elan, I cannot tell you.

ETA: A link to a book about the habit - http://www.barnesandnoble.com/.....1101092202

ETA: Btw, in the history of my ultra liberal school, the length of girls' skirts was also measured. Skirts had to touch the floor when you kneeled. That was a widespread cultural thing.

ETA: One more - http://www.medievalists.net/20.....ian-finds/

I was always told that the habits that are traditional today were basically according to the fashion of the day when they were invented. That is, all women used to wear veils...

JAileen

Veteran

I've started watching a show called Death in Paradise, taking place on a Caribbean island. The last one had nuns in it. I was interested in how their habits are put together. I don't know if they used authentic ones in the show, but in one scene you could see ties at the back of the neck, under the veil. They had two styles, and I guess one if them was for a new nun. The funny thing is, the nuns always looked cool, whereas the detective was always kind of sweaty looking. Obviously I'm not Catholic, but I always been fascinated by nuns habits, especially The Flying Nun!

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Anonymous

Oh my goodness, yes, the Flying Nun! That was such a sensation, and I don't know how Sally Field ever lived that down. Do I remember a little forbidden magnetism between the nun and the Ricardo Montalban character? None of my K-12 schools had AC, and in the hotter months, it wasn't uncommon for those nuns to drop like flies from the heat. One of them fell off a stool in mid-sentence. Those habits were downright life-threatening in our subtropical climate, but decorum had to be maintained!

Thanks for the tip on that show, JAileen, I'm going to check it out (part of my research, you know).

Ginger

Veteran

Just a point - The Quakers mostly wore gray or grayish tawny colors (there are a lot of 18th and early 19th century gowns in Pennsylvania and mid-Atlantic collections), and the Puritans and Separatists both fairly ordinary clothing for their respective classes. The Pilgrims in black with big white collars is kind of mythical. There are a lot of portraits showing men in black with white collars, but it's a fairly common style of the time and by no means limited to Puritans or Separtists or clergy. The interpreters at Plimoth do a pretty good job.
http://www.plimoth.org/what-se.....sh-village

/note from historical costume nerd

rabbit

Veteran

thanks for the clarification, Ginger, quite appreciated

Runcarla

Veteran

Not so much influenced by what the nuns outfits, since many were in civies at the boarding school I attended. Uniform dressing-that's another thing. Black Watch tunics over turtlenecks was the uniform. Any colour turtleneck and short sleeved mock turtlenecks for warm weather. White turtlenecks for dress. Today I am an avid turtleneck wearer and I do have a sugar eye for BW plaid!

Thirkellgirl

Veteran

The influence the nuns had on my dress was more that it took me years to get over a distaste of plaid (our uniform skirts) and grey blazers. I was able to play Sister Bertha in The Sound of Music in high school, and got to wear an actual nun's habit! It was wool and heavy and hot!

deb

Veteran

I did not know that Turkey does not allow religious garb on the streets so nuns wear street clothes. Here is good info on religious habits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_habit

ETA - I also did not know the various Catholic orders had different colored habits.

Ginger

Veteran

Thirkellgirl, interesting that you'd say that! There is a convent of Carmelite nuns close to my parents' house. I remember they came in to the Joann's when I worked there; they were in light oatmeal colors, like unbleached cotton. If I recall correctly, they were looking for monk's cloth or something along those lines; sturdy but breezy, and not wool.

Anonymous

That's interesting about the Pilgrims. I guess the artists who portray them wearing black and white wanted to emphasize the severity of their beliefs and their strict adherence to a moral code.

My high school nuns wore cream and deep-red habits. They looked like wild women compared to my grade school nuns. And I remember another order that wore grey and white (someone told me that they were Episcopalian nuns, but I don't know if that's true).

Rachylou, that's fascinating about those stylish medieval nuns. It makes my wonder what went on after hours in our nuns' convent! Hair-curling and romantic trysts, maybe? As children, we always thought they were bald under those veils.

Ginger

Veteran

I think you're right about that. I also think they've been mixed up with the Puritans. The Separatists/Pilgrims were more extreme by virtue of separating from the Church of England, but it's the Puritans who've been painted as the really strict legalists. If anyone did, they were the ones who reacted from the excess in dress in the 17th century - and it WAS really excessive! It wouldn't take black and white to look modest and restrained in comparison.

Anonymous

I think maybe the Puritans were a little dressier, right? They wore the big pointy hats and the buckled shoes. I think the men were showier than the women (if "showy" is the right word for someone so conservative).

Ginger

Veteran

Ooh, yes, Rachy is right! The habit is a simplified and stylized version of middle period medieval dress. The basic headdress in particular - wimple and veil - are virtually unchanged. I've done it for a Maid Marian costume (a la Olivia de Haviland). These webpages are totally fascinating. I used the double band method from the second page because my fabric was slippery chiffon, and it works perfectly. I doubt that nuns use the bands now, but it does work and is perfectly secure even in the wind.

https://cardiffcastlegarrison......d-wimples/
http://www.virtue.to/articles/veils.html

Thirkellgirl

Veteran

Most of what I know about nuns came from Rumer Godden's In This House of Brede, about Benedictine nuns. I discovered it in my old town library at just about the time I entered Catholic prep school. As a little Baptist girl, I found it all terribly romantic.

Ginger

Veteran

I'm not really sure. It's hard to be that specific; they were in existence for over a hundred years and two different continents, and their fashions were by no means static. Wikipedia has lots of portraits - this is a collection of women. Lots of color and a good amount of black; not all of these are English.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/.....t_three-qu

I have a friend who works at Jamestown; although not it's not Puritan, she is an AMAZING costume historian and has re-created many different periods. Her research is impeccable. If you'd like, I'll ask her.

Greyscale

Veteran

I grew up Catholic but without many nuns around. I don't think my minimalist aesthetic came from that. But the one connection, for sure, is 'nun shoes.' There are certain styles of clunky shoes that I just can't stop associating with nuns - and I like those styles, in a sort of 'jolie laide' way.

My great-aunt Sister Arlene was a nun, but I didn't know her well. She was at family parties when I was really young. Then her order moved her to a retirement home in Quebec, which caused half the family to quit the church permanently. It's a big clannish family and the idea of her being forced to move so far away from her whole family that late in life upset folks, even if they're all from Quebec ancestrally. But anyway, her habit was a light brown that didn't have any of the verve of the black & white version.

Anonymous

I remember those shoes, Greyscale. Jolie laide is an excellent way to describe them. They worked quite well with the habit and opaque black stockings, and were comfy for chasing the skirt-hikers down to put in detention!

JAileen

Veteran

Rachy mentioning how nuns' habits were just regular clothing for their time (I think of the movie Lion in Winter which takes place in the 12th century), reminds me of wedding gowns. Now they seem so archaic. But back in the day, they were just dresses that women wore.

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Anonymous

So true, JAileen. As much as things are always changing in the world of fashion, some traditions hold fast.

Wow, look at all that hair Kathryn Hepburn is showing -- scandalous! But Eleanor of Aquitaine was quite a little spitfire, wasn't she?

rachylou

Veteran

It has occurred to me that the basic witch costume looks a lot like Puritan wear...or what the Welsh wore...jus' sayin'...

L'Abeille

Veteran

This isn't about the nun's habits but back to the idea of school uniforms...

Many years ago I read an article in Glamour magazine entitled "I've got that Catholic girls' school look". She was saying that she'd go shopping with her friends for, say, a fancy dress for a party, try on lots of slinky and flirty numbers, and end up with a long tartan skirt and a velvet blazer... it was her default, her comfort zone. The idea appealed to me (although I've never worn a uniform in my life, apart from scrubs and a white coat). But I love the confidence and authority conferred by the blazer, the "third piece", even though it barely fits my actual life...

Much later, when we lived in South Africa, our first 2 girls attended a convent school and wore uniforms. Actually all schoolchildren at all schools wore uniforms. Most often involving a blazer. And I found that adult women rarely dressed that way; I think it felt infantilizing to them. Instead, they would dress up with coloured shoes to match a pretty dress, and bling to go along... stuff that a schoolgirl would never get away with. (I never got the memo. My default is the Glamour girl's default.)

Firecracker (Sharan)

Veteran

Nope, definitely not. I will admit to wanting to be Sally Field, aka "The Flying Nun," but I don't detect any nun influence on my style. What a fun insight to read about, though, and I'm enjoying this thread a lot!

deb

Veteran

L'Abeille, I remember that article. I think the crispness of the black and white intrigued me. I also saw it as authoritative.

barbaraq

The nuns who taught me wore what were French widows' weeds from the post French revolutionary war, when the Catholic Church was outlawed. They were in disguise from the authorities. I always admired their black-and-white habits. Our forest green wool uniforms, on the other hand, not so much. To this day I cannot stand even the idea of wearing anything that color.

Anonymous

It's true, Firecracker. I have seen zero evidence of nun influence, flying or otherwise, in any of the wonderful outfits you've posted. They were such powerful figures to me that I guess it would be strange if they didn't influence me somehow. Ah, if only I could fly!

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