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Not celebrating Christmas and kids

elpgal

Veteran

If you grew up in a family that did not celebrate Christmas or do not celebrate as an adult, how do you handle gifts, Santa etc with kids? How did your parents handle it?

My son is finally the age where he understands that kids in his school get presents, have trees etc and wants those things himself. I am trying to decide what approach to take. FWIW, both DH and I are Hindus but not particularly religious. This year, we are traveling so it is not a big deal but I want to hear from you wise folk.

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Latest reply was from harmonica

Gigi

Veteran

I grew up celebrating Christmas, but I did have a friend who was Hindu and not particularly religious. He told me that he celebrated Christmas in a more generic, cultural sense because he liked the emphasis on giving. He did not have children, however, so maybe this info is not helpful (?).

kkards

Veteran

so i am Jewish, we celebrated Hanukkah, so not quite the same situation, but my parents were very firm on us understanding that Christmas was a religious holiday, and as such, not our holiday. it's a sentiment that has stayed with me, and i'll be very honest, it bothers me that non Christians celebrate Christmas. i think Christmas time is the perfect time to explain to a child that there are many religions and many different beliefs, and that we can and should all live together and respect others religions and celebrations. Yes, there will be times that this will be difficult to convey to a child, but IMO its a lesson worth learning, and is best learned young (sorry i'll get off my soapbox now).

K.M.

Veteran

I am Jewish and grew up in a Catholic country (Brazil). All around me everyone celebrated Christmas. Chanukkah wasn't a big celebration in our Jewish community (I found that it's much more celebrated here in the US as an "alternative" to Christmas) and certainly didn't include gift-giving. All to say that, when Christmas came around, we didn't celebrate anything.
It was clear to me that it wasn't "our" holiday. My parents did make one concession and always got us one gift, because we saw our friends getting zillions of gifts this time of year. And one day, when I was 13, my mom and I put together a Christmas tree simply out of curiosity of what it might feel like to decorate one.
Although I felt jealous of the gift mountains my friends got, I also felt snugly glad that I never believed in Santa.
When I was 12 or so my best friend invited me to spend Christmas eve at her house because she knew I was curious. If your son has this opportunity in the future, I encourage you to let him accept it. What it did for me is that it sated my curiosity but also made me not want to attend someone else's Christmas party ever again, because it was clear that, while I was welcome, this was really something for families.
Now, my husband is Catholic, and since we began dating I am part of his family's Christmas celebrations. This made me excited in the beginning but frankly now I don't like it so much--the whole obligation to travel, attend events, buy all these gifts, etc. These things are nice when they are spontaneous, not scheduled....
We are raising our daughter secular but with sprinklings of both religions. I explained to her that Christmas is part of her Catholic side.

MsMary

Veteran

I grew up in a Protestant home but converted to a non-Christian religion when my son was in elementary school. We continued to celebrate Christmas as an Anerican secular holiday, with Santa and the tree and gifts, but on a fairly small scale. These days I am a non-believer and I still do the same thing. I feel like it's completely possible to do secular Christmas if that's your inclination. You can explain to your son that the origins are religious and it's not your religion, but it's fun to do the gifts and the tree and the spirit of love and giving is for everyone.

Elly

Veteran

http://www.livescience.com/257.....anism.html

I wondered about the societal implications of so many people celebrating a "religious" holiday. However, as an anthropologist I've come to understand that many of the aspects of Christmas are simply continuations of something that has been going on in almost all agrarian communities with a cold season for tens of thousands of years . . . when fields are fallow and there is less "time dependent" work to be done people aggregate or go visiting and share food and warmth and it would have been traditional to gift to people. It just so happens that many of the American traditions come from Europe because of immigration and sharing a similar climate (bringing greenery inside during winter to brighten and freshen a home).

You can go two ways--- you can celebrate "the holidays" and explain where the various elements you chose to include come from (non-religious elements like Santa, trees, gifting, feasting, etc.) while explaining which days are important in your religion or you can choose not to. Most of the people I know who celebrate Christmas are non-Christians but depending on other beliefs celebrate on different scales. After all, it is pretty likely that your son will spend his life (in the US anyway) receiving invites to holiday parties and gifts from co-workers and friends mid-winter. That said, that doesn't mean that you have to chose to recognize important people in your life at this time of year with gifts "just because everyone else is doing it".

Peri

Veteran

Are you in US?

Putting aside all arguments (please!!!) about the way it should be, let's just look at what is. The way we celebrate Christmas in the US has very little to do with Christmas as a religious holiday. It takes over the entire culture for more than a month and all the Santa, trees, lights, gifts, etc are rarely Christian in theme. I think it would be sad to be a kid and be left out of all of that because he or she wasn't the "right religion".

If we look at the best side of all the trappings, it should give a feeling of inclusion, not exclusion. I think you can help a child see the difference between the two sides of Christmas, and let them be part of whatever piece of it feels comfortable. At some point his friends will all be giving each other presents...do you want him to have to say, no I can't accept that, I don't believe in it?

Obviously you will have to revisit this every year as he grows. The explanation can deepen every year. I fully trust that children can understand the difference. For what it's worth, as a piano teacher I always ask parents if they want Christmas music. Not a single Jewish or Hindu parent has ever said no. Every parent I've talked to about this wanted their children to participate in the culture they live in. Just think Jingle Bells instead of Away in a Manger.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I throughly enjoyed reading your interesting thoughts and stories on this topic.

Personally, I think Christmas is all about the act of giving and receiving, as well as celebrating and appreciating with those you love (friends, family, pets, the underprivileged, and the list goes on). That's the true spirit of Christmas although the origins are religious. It's also a nice way to end the year because it allows you to reflect, be thankful, as well as be festive. It's a time to set traditions with your loved ones - and those traditions can be any thing at all.

Elpgal, FWIW, we have lived all over the world and have a very diverse group of friends. Some of our Hindi, Buddhist and Jewish friends celebrate Christmas because it's about the spirit of giving. They don't put up a tree but they do exchange gifts and celebrate with loved ones. The same way we have been invited to Passover meals (and I have been to Diwali celebrations as a child) in the past. Just last year our Budhist friends in Hong Kong invited us to spend Chinese New Year with them in their home. And it was a great honour because it's the biggest holiday in the year for them.

I don't have kids and neither am I religious, so I might think about this a little differently. But as a global citizen I wanted to share my two cents. I hope that you find a way to work it out with your son so that you're all happy. Safe travels.

kkards

Veteran

hmmm…after reading the other responses here i want to come back and add a little more context to my response. i never felt left out or not of the "right religion" and i participated in gift exchanges with friends and attended holiday parties etc. i sang jingle bells at school assembles. but we did not "do Christmas" at home, i.e. no tree, no presents, no big holiday dinner.

Peri

Veteran

Kkards, yes, that's exactly what I meant! Participating in the broad culture while explaining the context at home.

Anonymous

As Elly said earlier, the winter holiday is ancient and pre-Christian. When Christianity came along, it incorporated many elements of celebrations that were already in place from earlier religions. Although it's still referred to as "Christmas," it's evolved to a months-long commercial extravaganza of eating, feasting, and buying, with the religious aspect pushed off to the side. Are we back to pagan times? Maybe. But it seems like a good time to celebrate with family and friends, no matter what faith or belief system you're part of. I'd hate for a child to miss out on the fun and excitement of the holidays.

Gaylene

Veteran

To me, Christmas is two celebrations--one religious and one secular. And I've applied that thinking to any cultural celebration with religious overtones when I've had the opportunity to participate in the festivities. As long as adherents understand and accept my participation as an observer, not a believer, I see no harm in celebrating with them.

I also think it is very hard to ignore major religious celebrations when you live in a country where the majority of the inhabitants belong to the same religion, especially if you have children. To me, if you pick the secular aspects of the celebration that are in your comfort zone, it's a good opportunity to teach children tolerance and respect for others without compromising your own values. But, then, I think our world would be a much place if we were all taught to embrace inclusiveness instead of separation.

Diana

Veteran

I'm atheist, my family is mostly atheist/agnostic, and my husband (and his family) are Christian. As a child, we celebrated Christmas in a purely secular manner. We had a tree and presents and a holiday party. I think my parents mostly did it so we (the kids) wouldn't feel left out; we had many Christian and Jewish friends so we're also exposed to many of those traditions growing up. I'm glad we did it. When it was just me, I didn't celebrate it in any meaningful sense (I mean, I went to holiday parties and gave gifts where socially expected, but that was it). Nowadays, I celebrate it with my husband's family, although to be perfectly honest certain aspects of it (the religious part, but also the heavy emphasis on gift giving) leaves me cold. I do like the family focus and the idea of celebration/festivity to brighten up a long winter. I do actually like having/decorating Christmas trees too.

If we have kids, obviously the in laws would expect us to go all out, and I do think it's nice/fun for kids. I do wish it was less about presents though and I'm not sure how I'd implement that. (At the moment, I give few gifts and try to make them really good/thoughtful ones, but don't expect little kids to understand my philosophy, lol). Plus let's face it, Christmas is so ingrained in American culture it's hard to avoid it. Everyone has holiday parties and gets Christmas (not other winter holidays) off, and there is Christmas music/decorations everywhere.

Do you have other cultural/religious winter celebrations or traditions around Christmas time?. my family celebrates Chinese New Year (and I still do) but that's generally in late jan/early February so not really an alternative to Christmas celebrations. So we had secular Christmas. I think as long as there is some sort of major celebration/ event in December actually celebrating Christmas at home would not be necessary. I do think it's nice for kids to have *something* to celebrate at home. FWIW, my Jewish friends growing up usually had some sort of Hanukkah decorations/gifts/etc and didn't seem to feel left out, etc.

Barbara Diane

Veteran

I'm Jewish and we have never celebrated Christmas in our home. I was told that a Christmas tree is evergreen as it is a symbol of Jesus's life and resurrection, or immortality (I can't remember exactly) so I wouldn't consider it a secular symbol. My sons have celebrated Christmas with others in their homes or at restaurants. It can be a little hard to not be Christian in December in the US but I think we can discuss it as another part of the wonderful diversity here. But I do think it is useful to acknowledge it can heighten feelings of "otherness".

Anonymous

Actually, the ancient Romans used fir trees to decorate their temples during Saturnalia. It reminded them of the new life to come in the spring. Another old custom that has carried forward and been adopted by the newer religions.

elpgal

Veteran

You are all so wise! Thank you for sharing your thoughts on a somewhat sensitive topic. Much to ponder about.

To answer a few questions - yes, we live in the US, have lived here for a while and will continue to do so. We go to all the Christmas/holiday parties we are invited to and have no problems participating in the gift exchanges and secret Santas. We take a 'hostess' gift to these events but have never given any personal gifts.

We also host get-togethers in December but they are not holiday-themed or Christmas themed. Just an opportunity to get together with friends who are not traveling and visitors to our city.

The Hindu festivals are in November (Diwali) and there is another one coming up in January and it is nothing large-scale. A few Indian families I know started exchanging gifts for Diwali but by the time December rolled around, the kids forgot all about it and they ended up having to do another round of gifts. Too funny!

Laurinda

Veteran

Thank you for starting an interesting thread! We are such a diverse group, it has been fun to read the replies.

As atheists with Nordic roots my family celebrates with the secular aspects of the shortest day of the year (an evergreen tree, lights, gifts, food & family) and some years might respectfully attend religious services with others in our family.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.

Echo

Veteran

While many people are not aware, like previous posters have mentioned, Christians co-opted a Pagan celebration and imposed their own beliefs upon it. It was already ingrained in the culture that people celebrated around the time of the solstice, so that is when Christians chose to celebrate the birth of their saviour. While historically there may likely have been a Jesus, no one knows when he was born.

My family was Christian in passing. In other words, if someone asked my mum what religion she or the family was, she would tell them we were Methodist, but we rarely attended church and never, ever celebrated Christmas as anything but a secular holiday. I am firmly atheistic, and I love the lights and gifts and giving and celebrations. If I lived in another culture, I would happily adopt their major holidays as my own, in a purely secular sense. When in Rome, after all...

My kids understand why some people celebrate the holiday in the religious sense, and I have explained why we do not believe in that aspect of the celebration, but time with family, good meals and an emphasis on giving are never a bad thing, IMO. I think kids have a better capacity than we give them credit for for separating the fun from the meaningful. The holidays you make meaningful will be the ones that make an impression for them, and religious meaning does not automatically seep into any holiday unless that is what is emphasized. I think it is possible to take part in culturally mainstream holidays yet still having a child understand and be clear in their own beliefs.

Nebraskim

Veteran

My husband and I only celebrate it as secular holiday. We exchange gifts and enjoy a nice formal meal. But we do not put up a tree or decorate. I do attend and enjoy a couple of annual holiday concerts because I truly enjoy the music and pageantry for its beauty, not so much its religious meanings. We don't have children so we've never faced that concern. I enjoy the season because it's beautiful and people are joyful, but I try to not succumb to the pressure of decorating, etc. I also try to not be judgy about other people's tradition and I do not get all uppity if someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holiday." I just say, "thanks, you too!" Several years ago, I overhead a conversation at the grocery where the clerk said to the little boy in line in front of me, "what are you hoping Santa will bring you?" The mother very frostily said, "We do NOT believe in the lie of Santa. Tell her who brings you your gifts." "Baby Jesus brings my gifts," the child said. Alrighty then.

rachylou

Veteran

So right... The traditional thing to do on Christmas, when it is not your tradition, is Chinese food and a movie... No really!

kkards

Veteran

Rachylou--- I can't believe that I forgot to mention that!

rachylou

Veteran

Maybe I shouldn't say this... But although Chinese food and a movie is a very American thing, I believe this can be done all over the world. Albeit it was actually after Christmas, I had some really bad Chinese food in an Austrian town - like not an uber city, not Vienna or anything - and yes, like Arizona bad - but it was Chinese! I think my people have even opened a restaurant at the the North Pole for Santa and the elves. However, they probably have to do a dvd for the movie part... Right, and no offense to my former state, Arizona I found had really good sushi and it was landlocked! Az also seemed to have a lot of surfers, which I totally don't get...

ramya

Veteran

Hmmm elpgal growing up in India , my mom and I made a Christmas tree at home with ferns and plants and decorated them and made a nativity scene with my dolls. Now in Norway I see my friends put up a tree and lights for kids and they get one gift for Diwali and 1 for Christmas. Oh new clothes for Diwali too.

gradfashionista

(website)

Veteran

I didn't grow up in a Christian home, and because of that, I notice the religious, assimilationist, and missionizing undertones to holiday festivities. Secular Christians don't notice it as much because Christianity is their norm, and the norm in Western society, so there's a certain desensitization and acceptance of certain beliefs. If you cultivate a love of your religion/tradition in the home, the kids shouldn't feel too left out not receiving gifts, though. Create your own rituals in which the kids can participate. For me, the holiday season is still pleasant because other people are cheery, and because it's a chance to visit family and friends. These are all fun activities, even in the absence of gifts.

Anonymous

As one who is probably in the minority, I celebrate Christmas as a sacred religious feast day, and am appalled at all the busyness and commercial stuff going on. Advent, the weeks leading up to Christmas, is meant to be a quiet time of meditation and peace. I especially object to the lengths people go to to instill a belief in Santa. I see practically homeless parents spending money that they don't have to buy children expensive gifts just because that is what the child has asked for. The child's belief in Santa is going to be crushed sooner or later anyway and the biggest trauma is usually embarrassment. If you want a child's trust, be truthful or at least ask them what they think. They probably know or suspect anyway. Sorry to get off the topic.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Joy, I remember feeling really embarrassed when I found out Santa wasn't real, as well as somewhat angry at my parents for participating in such a longstanding lie. Obviously that was when I was young and I understand the larger context now, but if I had kids I don't think I would perpetuate the Santa thing.

What many of you are talking about is why I find the expansion of Christmas so frustrating. It's not even secularization at this point, it's gotten so everyone no matter what their religion or background is not only allowed to participate, but expected to. When I was a kid you could say "oh no, I'm Jewish" or whatever, and that was enough explanation. Now the commercial and gift giving aspects are so normalized that you can't opt out without being seen as a grinch and a horrible person. And the pre-christian traditions have been rolled up into Christmas, for sure, but it at base is still a Christian holiday celebrating the birth of Christ, and to pretend that it's not and is about 'giving' and 'family' or whatever - I mean, maybe it is for individual people and that's great, but it's disengenous to say it's not Christian at its base, and thus assimilationist, as grad fashionista mentions.

I was raised Christian and my family of origin as well as my husband's is still religious, so I participate in some of the religious and some of the secular stuff when I visit them, and a bit of gift giving and minor decorating at home. I celebrate all the solstices, equinoxes, and cross quarter days already (I'm a bit of a Buddhist pagan fusion at this point), so I usually do a little something for the winter solstice, but by myself, not as part of a larger group.

I honestly don't know what I'd do about Christmas if I had kids. It would be hard for me to not let them participate in some way, because I'm not specifically Jewish or Hindu or even Christian in a way that would make me avoid the secular aspects and celebrate it as a religious occasion only. But I don't know that I'd feel good about letting it be just about presents and Santa, either.

Cerinda

Veteran

Yes, Elpgal, it is a puzzle finding ways to hold one's own traditions in the midst of secularization, globalization, and commercialization. My kids attended a school that celebrated Christmas as a religious festival, and sometimes they did have difficulty accepting that Christmas just wasn't part of our tradition. But they grew up with our music and our holidays and our blessings, and our friends --Wiccan, Christian, Jewish, Atheist-- coming to our house to share our celebrations. They also grew up feeling welcome guests in those others' celebrations.

This year, I find myself annoyed at being wished "Happy Holidays." It feels flat and generic to me. My holidays are over for the winter (Hanukkah isn't a very big deal among our friends, family, or community anyway). Wish me "Merry Christmas," everybody: I am HAPPY to share in your goodwill. Tell me, "Have a good Solstice." Wish me "Happy New Year." I'm with Gaylene on inclusivity.

Anonymous

Merry Christmas, Cerinda! God bless us, every one.

Diana

Veteran

For the record, I say "happy holidays" because I don't celebrate any specific event but I do enjoy and celebrate the festive season. On occasion, I wish people a Happy New Year but that seems odd in the first half of December. But I don't mind if others wish me merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, etc.

Laurinda

Veteran

Happy Holidays is a kind and respectful greeting. Best of all it is intended to include everyone.

For those interested in how Christmas celebrations have evolved in the US, I recommend The Battle for Christmas by Stephen Nissenbaum (1997).

From Publishers Weekly: Christmas in America hasn't always been the benevolent, family-centered holiday we idealize. The Puritans of the Massachusetts Bay Colony so feared the day's association with pagan winter solstice revels, replete with public drunkenness, licentiousness and violence, that they banned Christmas celebrations. In this ever-surprising work, Nissenbaum (Sex, Diet, and Debility in Jacksonian America), a professor of history at the University of Massachusetts, conducts a vivid historical tour of the holiday's social evolution. Nissenbaum maintains that not until the 1820s in New York City, among the mercantile Episcopalian Knickerbockers, was Christmas as we know it celebrated. Before Washington Irving and Clement Clarke Moore ("A Visit from St. Nicholas") popularized the genteel version, he explains, the holiday was more of a raucous festival and included demands for tribute from the wealthy by roaming bands of lower-class extortionists. Peppering his insights with analysis of period literature, art and journalism, Nissenbaum constructs his theory. Taming Christmas, he contends, was a way to contain the chaos of social dislocation in a developing consumer-capitalist culture. Later, under the influence of Unitarian writers, the Christmas season became a living object lesson in familial stability and charity, centering on the ideals of bourgeois childhood. From colonial New England, through 18th- and 19th-century New York's and Philadelphia's urban Yuletide contributions, to Christmas traditions in the antebellum South, Nissenbaum's excursion is fascinating, and will startle even those who thought they knew all there was to know about Christmas.

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