So interesting! Maya, I actually think all the fly-aways look pretty on Delpy and some other women : they make kind of a halo that looks very soft and touchable. Yes, she's pretty, but no prettier than many other people on whom this kind of hair could look dreadful (fly-aways look ridiculously bad on me!). I don't expect others to agree but there's just something about the way it looks on certain women - not always the prettiest women, either - that looks good to my eye.

I wrote a post AGES ago about how I like rooms/ interior design that have a mix of neat and fresh but at least one item that is worn, imperfect and rather used-and-abused. Right now, I'm in my office that has a sleek 60s Saarinen table, 2 modern Italian chairs and one old, torn, stained leather club chair that I bought at a highway-side antique stand in the Loire Valley. My partner hates it and thinks we shouldn't "ruin" a pretty room with a ripped chair. But some of my friends are immediately drawn to the juxtaposition, as am I. Maybe that's the appeal to me. If I see a woman in sweats, holey shoes and hair like this, I'll think she looks too relaxed (unless she's digging in her garden). But if I see a woman in smart, neat clothes and hair like this, I can be charmed.

My hair is often, shall we say, "natural" and I know it makes me look a mess... so, don't worry; I didn't start this thread to get permission to not make more of an effort with my own coiff : ) I'm just truly intrigued by polish vs. lack of polish vs. polish-that-tries-not-to-look-polished and how various women play with each.

Favorite quote from a recent favorite movie: "The illusion of effortlessness requires a great effort indeed." -- Helena Bonham-Carter in Conversations with Other Women.

I agree that women seem to fall at one extreme or another: "natural" as in "I pay no attention whatsoever to my appearance," or completely artificial, as in "I didn't know when to stop paying attention to my appearance." I think that has as much to do with what's going on inside that person as it does with what they prefer to see in the mirror.

Hmm, I guess your question is why some women look great with the "natural" look while others look sloppy, and my honest answer is that I don't think any women look great that way. Her hair isn't halo-like to me. I think a lot of the effect has to do with the lighting in those pictures. I'm sure she doesn't look as glorious indoors.

Ironically, to me it actually looks like her frazzled hair is the result of stress from coloring, heat, product, etc.

Well, my post was mostly geared towards trying to generate a conversation about polish, but I did pose 3 specific questions. They were:
1. When does hair or makeup cross the line from being prettily natural and relaxed to instead looking sloppy and unpolished?
2. Do you ever think you look beautifully undone and then later realise you instead merely look as though you simply didn't make an effort?
3. How do YOU manage to strike the balance?

I liked the point MAya made about how, for her, the fly-aways was what took Julie Delpy's hair from prettily relaxed to sloppy. I often find that really bad roots (from dye jobs that haven't been updated recently enough) cab push "relaxed" into sloppy territory.

I often think I look beautifully undone and then later catch sight of myself in the mirror and think, oh dear. But I'm not sure if that's about polish or if it's more that I often forget I'm no longer 25 years old and a size 6 until my reflection reminds me!

Okay, Mac, here goes:

1. I think this is all in the grooming. "Natural" (or "effortless") to me doesn't mean you did nothing, it just means you didn't attempt a drastic change of what's already there. You merely tried to correct it. You groomed your brows, evened out your skin tone, finished your lips with something even if it's just a touch of shine. You didn't change your lips to a dramatic red, or create an elaborate smoky eye, but you cleaned things up a bit.

2. Oh, yes. Usually when a change of lighting is involved.

3. I'm still working on this one. What looks fine in my mirror at home often looks like too much or too little in the bathroom mirror at work.

This is a very interesting topic to me. My first thought when I saw the picture Mac linked was, "Why in the world would she go out without having even combed her hair!"

"Natural," contrived or otherwise is not generally my priority. How far away I want to look from my natural state depends on what I'm doing, where I'm going, and/or my mood. I never, ever go past the end of my driveway without (at the very minimum) lipstick, blush and eyeliner. Generally I do more than that. I do put effort into my hair but I don't do an elaborate up-do every day. That's mostly because I am not a morning person and just don't get up early enough! LOL!

I think I am really in the minority in this forum with my particular aesthetic (which is ok - variety is the spice, and all that). Natural is not my goal. I guess exaggerated femininity is. I love to see (and be) a woman with really red lips and big hair and clinging clothes.

Here's a confession (you'll never see me the same way again!): The character Gloria from the U.S. television show Modern Family is my idol. I want to dress and look just like her!

I don't have an answer to the first question, Mac. For the second question, the answer is YES! When I do try to "do less" and look more natural, I end up feeling naked and plain. And I guess the answer to the third question is that I don't really try to strike a balance.

I guess I am with Jenny on this part.
I like looking done and girly, natural is NOT my goal. My skin is not dark enough or the right shade of light, my eyes are not dark enough, or the right shade of light either to wear no make up. My brows have become non existent , so they don't frame my face.

Not that I don't envy the rare ...just rolled out of bed, take me camping kind of girl, but that is just not me:)

Here is an example of the type of "natural" that I prefer (even though I'm sure there is a great deal of makeup involved here): http://www.louloumagazine.com/.....eloppe.jpg
No exaggerated colors and not a heavily made-up look, but polished and "done."

And here is an example of the type of natural that to me looks sloppy:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets.....makeup.jpg

Hahahaha, April. When I was looking for photos of women who I thought looked unkempt but pretty, I spotted that exact snapshot of Gwyneth and thought, WOW, she looks to unpolished even by MY standards.

I love the variety of aesthetic tastes represented in this thread! Jenny, I'm not sure we get "A Modern Family" on TV here in Canada, so of course I had to Google the character Gloria whom you mentioned. For all the rest of you who are in the dark, here are some photos of Gloria:

http://static.tvfanatic.com/im.....gloria.jpg

http://media.daemonstv.com/wp-.....50x366.jpg

http://www.areyouscreening.com.....gloria.jpg

Oh Mac, I didn't mean to dismiss your initial post. I was more referring to what the discussion has sort of evolved into.

I guess I fall somewhere in between, as I mentioned, and that is basically my goal. I have no intention of achieving perfection. As I wrote in my comment on the blog today, I like being a little rough around the edges. But to me there are some basics that need to be addressed and combed hair is one of them. I have mentioned many times that I hate using lots of product due to the feel and the look, so my hair IS basically natural. It has just been dried smooth. I admitted my lack of makeup is a bit of an issue and I'll get around to that soon enough. Overall, no one would look at me and think "there's a high maintenance gal" or "poor thing, she didn't have time for a bath today." Sounds good to me...

Jenny, I don't watch tele (apart from Madmen and Seinfeld), so I had to google Gloria. She looks fabulous so why shouldn't she be your style idol :0)

I think few people get away with unkempt hair. I love Kate Moss - and she gets away with it because - I hate to say it - but good genetics and fabulous style are what it takes.

I think there is a difference between "the natural" look and the "au naturel" look. The former is you with a bit of polish, like April posted of Penelope Cruz. Whereas the latter is Julie Delpy and Gwyneth. I vote the former.

This is such an interesting topic! Since I wear my naturally curly hair in its "natural" state, I think it contributes to my overall natural look. However, I do apply natural product (homemade flax seed gel) to make it a more aesthetic natural, taming it, making the curls clump and spiral, rather than frizz and flyaway ... so its not "au natural!" Another way I keep it from being "au natural" is to keep it cut by a really good stylist, rather than big and mushroomy. If I'm going to a more formal event, I often wear it pulled into a loose chignon or french twist to keep it a bit more sleek. Not straight, mind you (that would take me an hour!), but loose curls pulled back for more sophistication.

Another thing is that I don't wear obvious make-up with my curls. For some reason, that seems too tart for my tastes. I do wear mascara and lip gloss, and keep my brows shaped. My moisturizer is coconut oil. I keep it simple.

My SAHM lifestyle is casual anyway, so my wardrobe fits my natural looks.

That is a tough question Mac. I don't have time to read through all of your replys because it is almost beddy by time.
I have been practicing and practicing to find that line between polished and natural but oh so good.
I have finally gotten my makeup down to a little bit of this and a little bit of that and it makes a big difference in my face.
I'm still working on the hair. I did get quite a boost today when I went for a haircut and was told that the way I had styled it before coming in looked nice.
I will anxiously read all of the comments in the morning.

Huh, I just realized from reading this thread that I am not comfortable wearing a significant amount of make-up. Even the amount that Penelope Cruz is wearing in April's example is too much, too "contrived natural," for me.

I guess "polish" is not one of my style goals; it just doesn't feel like me. Clean, presentable, boho, edgy -- yes, but polished, not really.