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Maybe OT: Interesting NYT article on happiness and spending

ironkurtin

Veteran

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07.....ef=general

"We usually think of having more money as allowing us to buy more and more of the stuff we like for ourselves, from bigger houses to fancier cars to better wine to more finely pixilated televisions. But these typical spending tendencies — buying more, and buying for ourselves — are ineffective at turning money into happiness."

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23 replies

Latest reply was from Lyn D.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

Thanks for posting this. I so needed to read this now. But honestly right now a good night's sleep would make me supremely happy. I'm still recovering from call.

Anonymous

Somehow, I'm not surprised the NYT is thousands of years behind most of the world's religions in coming to this conclusion. Thank you for sharing!

jayne

Veteran

Interesting. Less is more, all things in moderation, and so on. I think I figured out the experiences are the most precious on my own. I have even stopped taking photos of experiences, except for a few, to trigger the memories. But no longer documenting the memories. Less again! And I do get more pleasure out of my fewer well picked items than I ever got from a stuffed closet. Thanks IK

Aziraphale

Veteran

Thank you! I love reading things like this. It's good to have a reminder. It's the kind of stuff we all know in our hearts to be true, but then forget about when we're coveting this, that or the other.

For me, the maxim "all things in moderation" is the most useful one in life. I can't count the number of times I've said that out loud to my kids, or to myself inside my head. There's not one instance I can think of where it's not true.

JR

Veteran

Anne, your reply absolutely cracked me up. Spot on!

Jonesy

Veteran

I am always a fan when social scientists get a chance to summarize their work and tout its significance :)! This work is cool; I especially like the part about underindulgence. It makes sense that we enjoy things when they are infrequent and seem "special" somehow. Once something becomes routine (whether it's eating chocolate or buying clothes) we acclimate to it and it loses its perceived magic.

rachylou

Veteran

I don't know what they mean. I have to tell y'all, I'm hysterically happy buying stuff and lounging around in big airy rooms with a laundress on staff.

Heather

Veteran

Thanks for posting this!

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

Rachy: I am the same as you, LOL!
We had no money when I was growing up and wearing Goodwill clothes was all I could afford when I was a teen. Making more money did make me happy because it meant that I don't have to worry whether I have enough money to stretch until the next paycheck. Didn't it say that most people who have been making $25, 000 didn't become any happier after they started making $50,000? Sorry, not buying it. Unless, of course, the person is perfectly happy being poor but I haven't met anyone like that yet

Echo

Veteran

There have been a lot of other studies which have said essentially the same thing: as soon as a moderate standard of living is achieved so a person doesn't need to worry about paying rent or how they will eat, increasing salary doesn't increase happiness. Indeed, most people simply get themselves larger bills to pay when their cheques increase. Most people would not be happy living a spartan existance, but the old expression "It's good to want things" really is true to a certain extent (again, not in the sense that a person doesn't have enough to cover the basics of life).

Isis

Veteran

V---it said that people making 55K WERE happier than those making 25K....but they weren't twice as happy....it's not linear.

The limit was 70K-ish....more than that did not lead to more happiness.

I also find it interesting when social scientists quantify something we all "know" is true....and I find the attempt to put numbers on the amount of money that makes people happy fascinating!

Thanks for posting this IK!

Claudia

Veteran

"To be without some of the things you want is an indispensable part of happiness." Betrand Russell

Thanks for posting this, IK.

ironkurtin

Veteran

I believe Simon Doonan also said, "Coveting is a lost art."

I believe it is worth being reminded that more stuff does not equal more joy and that it is possible to cap out on satisfaction! So, to bring it back to fashion, perhaps some wardrobe holes simply don't need to be filled.

As a side note, some of you mention religion. I'd really love to keep religion out of this if we can, do you mind? I would be more interested in hearing how one might arrange a study to see at what point generosity fails to be satisfying! Perhaps giving, too, has to be done on a limited basis to bring joy?

Mo

(website)

Veteran

I enjoyed reading this - thanks. I experienced a little of this underindulgence while out shopping today. I had cash to burn (mad money from my job) but only got a belt and lounge bra. While it is freeing to not have to be following a strict budget, it is also freeing to choose not to spend. Funny thing, I'm totally excited about the meager purchases I did make today. Interesting.

rachylou

Veteran

If more than 70K does not lead to more happiness... it would follow a reduction from 100K to 70K would have no effect. But it most certainly does.

I think the reality is that people perceive the deltas more than the absolute amounts. And I do believe there are studies that show something to that effect.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Of course, $70K is very different in New York or San Francisco than it is in Iowa or rural Tennessee . . .

ironkurtin

Veteran

I find the general message more interesting than increase and decrease of happiness from exact amount A to B.

No one is arguing that money can't make life better. Of course it can! But part of what this article says is that it's *how* you use your money, and your expectations of that money and what it can buy, that make you happy.

Oddly, what the article doesn't explore is what people *sacrifice* in order to go up in salary. I actually did the dip recently, and went down in salary - but I went way up in time. Am I happier? Oh, yes I am. Earning more money does not come cheaply, to coin a phrase, and frankly the extra stuff I could buy then can NEVER make up for the life I sacrificed to make the money to buy it.

Of course, I didn't buy a laundress. Maybe that was my mistake. Next time.

Echo

Veteran

Like I mentioned before, people increase their bills and their standard of living in accordance with their salaries. So it actually does not follow that going down in income would cause no unhappiness because that would once again cause the same stresses of not having an adequate income - how will I pay the rent and feed the family? Saying one could sell the house and buy a smaller one isn't easy or reasonable, so going down in income is an entirely different scenario, IMO.

But what the research shows is that once the average needs are covered, there is a diminishing return on the amount of joy that acquiring things brings. That makes sense to me, and is common sense to most people, I think. It is human nature to want more than we have, but that is what keeps us striving. With nothing to strive for, the world would indeed become a dull place for many people.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

I am living this scenario right this moment. We moved back to FL a week ago - to make money. Are we happier in Tahoe? YES. Could we have afforded our house or car(s) without the sacrifice of coming to FL to work over the years? NO.
The BF and I had an ongoing stalemate of a conversation on money/security vs. happiness/getting by. I am more of the camp of happy and broke, while he (the finance manager) feels security is what really affords you happiness. We are still of a different mind on the subject and this move has been especially hard.

Laura

(website)

Veteran

I am pretty sure that the $75K happiness level does not apply where I live. Huge !!

But I do agree that money does not buy happiness. If anyone has a tiny doubt, I reference Gretchen Rubin, the #1 NYTimes bestselling author of "The Happiness Project." She realized she had all the pieces in place to be happy but really wasn't as happy as she should have been. She spent a year test-driving theories about how to be happier and now has a popular blog. Gretchen is the wife of a hedge fund manager in NYC and lives on the upper east side in a townhouse. Her father-in-law is Robert Rubin. Case closed!!

catgirl

Veteran

I've read that people's happiness levels tend to be fixed to a degree by personality. A case in point is my friend with a debilitating long-term condition whose husband is undergoing chemo while awaiting a liver transplant - yet she is as upbeat and smiling as she can be given the circumstances. Meanwhile, I have other friends in a funk over the smallest things. Money is one factor, but I think health, support, and many other factors come into play here as well, and how they tie together is a complex matter.

ManidipaM

Veteran

Una, that's a great perspective! I wonder if there are studies on those 'other factors' that contribute to happiness --- quantitative ones like this one, I mean.

IK, if I actually drove the second-hand car I own, I'd make your coinage by bumper sticker: "Earning more money does not come cheaply." Also been there, done that --- aka, been burnt, not gonna do it again unless I hit rock bottom. Even two years of SYC was worth getting off the hamster wheel.

Lyn D.

Veteran

Thanks for this conversation! It is one that I often have in my head when I am reconsidering returning to the work force for a few extra dollars. Happy family V Expensive Holidays or newer car. At the moment the Happy family prevails!