Kibbe, Kitchener etc - YouLookFab Forum

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Kibbe, Kitchener etc

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

Ok I really honestly don't get the whole Kibbe and Kitchener analysis. It seems like using Freud in today's psychological world.
Plus I see a few references saying that Kibbe is outdated. so how can an old system work in today's world?
Nobody's talks about Blackwell's Worst Dressed anymore.
If we're talking about old references wouldn't someone like Edith Head be more relevant.
It also seems to completely forgo in my mind a very important factor, your personality and lifestyle.
I personally would not want to boxed in by some fashion dictates that says I must be this because of the line of my cheekbone or jaw, curve of the waist, etc.
Or maybe the lines of my palm.

General

49 replies

Latest reply was from Astrid

catgirl

Veteran

I haven't looked. I don't enjoy this kind of analysis despite (or maybe because of) my profession and find it kind of tiring. But it's obviously stimulating and provides a useful tool for those who do enjoy it.

Echo

Veteran

^ Agreed. It seems like far too much analysis and work for something that is supposed to be fun. Mirrors have always been a better indication for me of what works on me and what doesn't. But to each their own.

Staysfit

Veteran

Touché! I'm only interested for what it can help me learn about myself and my style. Sometimes having some concrete way of thinking about and analyzing things is useful for those of us to whom this doesn't come naturally. I certainly don't subscribe to any one system or follow any set of rules rigidly. I am responding because I brought up a Kitchener subtype as something I can relate to better than one of Kibbes.

Caro in Oz

Veteran

It's like saying to someone who loves to look through cookbooks, aren't those old cookbooks outdated? The answer is yes & no. There are only so many clothing shapes the same as there only so many ways to make a bechamel sauce - but that doesn't mean I don't want to see another new (or old) recipe.
Doesn't mean I'm going to follow the recipe exactly but there is always something to learn. I find it all fascinating, but that doesn't mean you have to Anna. I have the original Edith Head book too, she is much more prescriptive than Kibbe

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I find it interesting for a few reasons. The types aren't rankings so it gives a language for discussing features and how to play them up without there being any one way that is best. So it gives us a language to talk with each other about their prominent features and how to play them up without people feeling judged that they aren't x enough. In other words, there is no assumption that the goal of dressing is to look as skinny, tall, sexy or whatever as possible.

It also gives me a different perspective on how to categorize my and other people's style - am a long line person or a broken up line person? Is she? Is that why I like her style? That sort of thing.

I do love old style books just as my husband likes old cook books. I like to see how tastes evolve, try to train my eye to see the value in things that look so dated and sometimes awful at first look, and so on.

And finally, it has given me some new insight into how I am perceived by (some) others. I would have never guessed anyone looking at me would see flamboyant gamine!

Anonymous

I brought up Kibbe in a thread I started on this forum a while ago, and some people shot me down for what they perceived as an obsession. I'm interested in all things related to style, both old and new, and feel there's always something to learn.

To me, life itself is a continued learning experience. I haven't arrived, and I don't know all the answers. I keep reading to increase my knowledge on the subject.

To each his own...

Anonymous

I don't think there's any harm in exploring the theories of Kibbe, Kichener and etc. and if the people who've read them start filtering what they're seeing through their ideas, it's fine with me.
Staysfit, because I haven't read any of their books I kind of had no idea what you were talking about but I enjoyed your photos anyway. I guess the only downside to this is that people who haven't learned the language can't answer back, but I don't have to participate in every conversation.
I think we're constantly subtly molded by the feedback we get from people, spoken and unsaid, and these books are no worse.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

http://www.insideoutstyleblog......rules.html

AM

Veteran

Oh, what's wrong with boxes and straightjackets (not in the fifty shades of gray kinda way)? I'm pretty sure most of us know how to open the box, undo the straightjacket and glean some insight. To each his own. Anna, come on...get in the box, get in the box. Have you ever been in the box? Cheers to you. You are an out of the box kinda gal!

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I think what gets lost is...

http://youlookfab.com/2013/01/.....ss-factor/

Anonymous

Annagybe, I love the pictures you posted to illustrate soft!

Caro in Oz

Veteran

Anna not so for me - if an outfit really works & has a high happiness factor then knowing WHY it works (for me) really helps. It also helps me to stop buying things that just sit in my wardrobe.

Marley

Veteran

Well, the thing is that those people who get into it are having fun! Everyone thinks and learns in different ways and I myself welcome peoples' thinking/learning processes - regardless of whether or not I would actually use it myself. It's all part of what makes the forum so interesting - and why I keep coming back!

austennut

I'm still very new to all of this, and have checked out Kibbe's book from the library (and am just now hearing of Kitchener, so you see I'm a total newb). I appear to be a Kibbe romantic, and in reading about the various types, there are elements that I see that I think look good on me, and there are times when I realize why in some types of clothes I've always felt a little frumpy, even when I was following magazine/What Not to Wear recommendations. I'm not sure I'm going to buy into it hook, line, and sinker, but as someone who's totally new to looking at fashion & wardrobes in a more formal way, it's a good way to at least get some kind of a mental framework set up, even if I alter the framework as I learn more.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

If we're comparing cookbooks and recipes. There are classics like Julia Child's Mastering the Art of French Cooking, Joy of Cooking, Fannie Farmer, etc.

And then there's stuff like this

http://www.bonappetit.com/peop.....on-appetit

Gaylene

Veteran

To each her own. Personally, I found Kibbe's ideas empowering instead of stifling because he doesn't assume that all women need, or even want, to dress to the same ideal. His approach appeals to my analytical side, but I can see why others might feel it is too convoluted or abstract to be useful. I'm with Caro in wanting to know to know WHY some outfits make me happier than others.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I like to know the "why," too.

Ultimately, I doubt if any one system is going to give me the answers to that, but I can pick up something useful from each one without following any slavishly, and as Caro says, it might save me from buying stuff that doesn't make me feel great.

I don't see these as prescriptive so much as explanatory. "Oh...so that's why I always feel kind of frumpy when I wear x or Y, even though according to the body type recommendations it should suit me." Or..."Ah! Now I see why everybody compliments me when I wear this cut of jacket, but not that one..."

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

But often the analysis I see doesn't use the history or background. There's no context, just abstraction
http://www.refinery29.com/recu.....ends#slide

Echo

Veteran

Anna, speaking of mold recipes, you clearly have not been a to a midwestern potluck recently! Trust me when I say those recipes live on...

Gigi

Veteran

I've actually been enjoying the Kibbe threads; this kind of analysis intrigues me. I haven't heard of Kitchener. I find that I learn something new about myself with each system of styling, which only helps me.

One thing I have found useful in the Kibbe discussions here (although not so much elsewhere online) is that you can use the Kibbe guidelines in a more general sense (e.g., fitted/unfitted silhouette; strong/muted colors; lots of detail/no detail) but don't have to go with the overall styles that are usually attached to his types. For instance, soft gamines are often given some kind of Audrey Hepburn-esque outfit, but it doesn't have to be that way. You can take the bare bones guidelines and make an outfit that doesn't scream "Audrey."

I think the outdatedness of Kibbe refers to the pictures, which are from the eighties. The guidelines don't have to pertain to any decade of fashion. But people who have read the book (I haven't) say that the outdated pictures really make it difficult to understand how exactly to apply all the guidelines to modern clothing items.

Deborah

Veteran

I think for some of us, this level of analysis is a lot of fun and is interesting. For others, like me, it's all little too hard for a number of reasons. Some personalities are more inclined toward deep analysis and others are not. For this reason, I have skimmed some of the discussions but not commented. Still found them interesting:)

Gaylene

Veteran

As for those recipes. Carême, the grandfather of classical French grande cuisine, was celebrated for his invention of aspics and savoury jellies and would have found the items in those pictures quite familiar.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Anna, I agree about the abstraction. I guess any system will be abstract and reductive (to a degree) because that's what categorization is all about.

I also agree that unless you consider personality and lifestyle, you're still not going to be able to do much with all of this. It doesn't really help to know that according to so-and-so guru you "should" wear diaphanous fabrics...if your climate tends to -40 temps (like mine, tonight) or if you're more of a boot-stompin' type.

It might come down to a difference in aim. For some, personal style is all about playing with fashion. For others, it seems to be about finding a uniform or signature look. (This is an exaggeration and we're probably all on a continuum here, but you get the idea.)

Maybe these systems appeal more to those looking for the latter. For someone like you, who is forced to wear a literal uniform all day at work, the whole idea of anything that would constrain you in your off-hours is super-limiting, and no wonder.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

It seemed recently that analysis had taken over the forum. I was trying to offer a counter point.
Also I've been reading Angie's blog for a very long time. I have never seen her do this type of thing. And isn't her approach is what brought people here?

Firecracker (Sharan)

Veteran

I say to each her own. For whatever reason, I find the Kibbe discussions kind of entertaining and thought-provoking.

Deborah

Veteran

I find one of the things that I love about this forum is that a variety of fashion/style thoughts, interests and desires are shared here. It makes for an interesting and stimulating environment. For someone like me who is quite organic in her process some of these more analytical discussions have challenged me and broadened my thinking.

Caro in Oz

Veteran

Anna, I appreciate your counterpoint but don't agree that analysis has "taken over" the forum, there just happen to be a lot of members who are interested in something you are not.

The main thing that brought me here was Angie's attitude of respect & kindness towards everyone no matter where they are on their style journey. Well that & having people who I could talk to about clothes. I don't know of any other places like this on the web:)

IMO there is a lot of "context" in Kibbe His context is women as individuals. He writes about all the parts that make up a particular person - from their body, their features to their personality. Couldn't historical context be seen as a chronology of societal norms, which says nothing about particular people?

K.M.

Veteran

Anna, interesting post as always. I gave Kibbe a try out of curiosity because I like all forms of self-analysis, but I didn't really get much out of it. I did think it was a bit arbitrary. I also, as you, didn't feel that I wanted to dress to flatter the shape of my jaw. So, I experimented it, but it didn't fit me. I found Angie's bodytypes much more enlightening and helpful (and made so much sense with relation to what I already like to wear instinctively). And ultimately for me, finding my proper style is as much about my personality and inner self as about exterior features.

However... I still like Freud! A lot!

rachylou

Veteran

I do find Kibbe a little tortured. And as far as I can tell his styles aren't styles but physiques, and his recommendations have a lot more to do with the engineering of cloth and the construction of garments - like dart placement.

But it's entertaining to me.

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