Oh, the rabbit hole! I love what L'Abeille says about Kibbe's most important contribution and how that has played out in her own wardrobe and sense of herself.

I've read and done various Kibbe tests I don't know how many times, which hardly makes me an expert, admittedly. FWIW, my thoughts about the difficulties of being objective about ourselves align with StyleFan and notsaf's.

Also, my amateur categorization of forum members' various "types" are very much along the line of what notsaf says. (High five, notsaf! We may be wrong, but we are wrong together!)

Thank you for providing the quiz. I came out exactly between Gamine and Classic, and it feels very right.

Like FashIntern, I found the use of the red x's in the questionnaire (of which I received many) offputting -- especially in combination with the highlighting of what I assume was the "correct"/expected answer, as if to ask me: "wouldn't you like to be like this instead?" Like...sorry, that's just my face! But maybe that's just bad UX for this particular quiz.

My total score was 69, which does not correspond to any of the categories, but is very close to Flamboyant Gamine. The description here of this type as "can be petite, but something about them is exaggerated" definitely rings true to me. As I wrote on the other thread, I interpret that in a tongue-in-cheek way as "delicate but weirdy," which seems about right. And I can see how my style moniker of "Girl on the Moors" fits with all that. (I think my other style moniker, "Modern Land Girl," is also a Gamine type, but with more Natural elements, which I also see as being present in both my personality and physicality. Although Gamine + Natural doesn't seem to be A Thing in Kibbe, but whatever.)

OTOH the description of this type that Fashintern found, ""Innately, you are Yang in energy (aggressive and dynamic), Yin in youthfulness (fresh)," seems lolololol way off the mark.

I can appreciate that some members like notsaf and L'Abeille have found the system really helpful. But I guess my beef with Kibbe is that the system seems to be really confusing and unintuitive to many, and I often see posts here on the forum asking for help with Kibbe type that seem to express this kind of anxiety about which of a system of mysterious boxes they should put themselves into. And I always want to be like: Girl, just be you! You don't have to fit in ANY boxes!

Idk, maybe this is kind of like discussions of Marie Kondo where I often find myself saying, "No, but you just don't understaaaaaand her!" -- except the shoe is on the other foot now.

Still, this comment from notsaf, "it's really hard to judge yourself accurately for these purposes" and this one from L'Abeille "he stressed that the analysis is one you do yourself, not have done for you" seem confusing in combination. Is the system about how you know yourself, or how others perceive you?

I did test recently ( on the web with some pictures ) and came Soft Dramatic. That's absolutely true to my feelings about clothes/styles. The only problem for me is not always sticking to it, falling into easy/lazy versions of casual interpretation . I got angular body ( inverted triangle ), longer arms and legs with 5'5" height, small head with fuller cheeks and lips, short hair. Not much feminine features in my look and no desire to do romantic, classic things. I'm attracted to boyish things ( was wearing my older brother sweaters and sorta unisex jeans in my teens ).

The red x's are not "wrong" answers -- there are no wrong answers. It probably has to do with Survey Monkey's scoring system capabilities -- it's how it categorizes you into the types.

Sarah, I don't think notsaf's comments and L'Abeille's are necessarily inconsistent.

What notsaf is saying is simply that most of us have a very difficult time judging our visual appearance objectively. Especially those who have no training or natural ability for art or design. It's not surprisingly, really -- from childhood we hear different things about ourselves that may or may not be accurate. Our views of ourselves are also formed in relation to whoever we happened to grow up around -- so if our best friend was tiny and skinny, we might judge our own limbs as "rounded" when in fact, they are rather elongated and muscular, or if someone commented on our "big nose" we might still be going around with the idea that our nose is large even though our face has fully grown up around it. Those are silly examples, but you get the idea. Very few of us are free from preconceptions and assumptions. And some of us are just plain visually ignorant. And then the wording of the questions makes it even more confusing. Partly because the terms Kibbe uses are abstract, and partly because it's difficult for anyone to translate a visuals into words. Two different languages!

It can help to hear from others how they see us -- though they can also be wrong, of course. I haven't done the tests that Style Fan talks about from the Kibbe Facebook group but maybe those are more enlightening than the various ones floating around the Internet.

Meanwhile, L'Abeille's point is that his real purpose was to celebrate different kinds of beauty. What gets lost sometimes is the historical context in which he developed his system. Back in the 70s and 80s, DYOT was not really a "thing" to the same degree (that shift was just beginning) and beauty ideals could seem even more rigid in some ways than they do today (although that's debatable, I know). In any case, Kibbe's point was that contrary to what advertisers and celebrity culture might have you believe, there are many kinds of beauty and you will feel most yourself and happiest and most attractive in your clothes if you recognize your own type and don't fight it. The idea is to make the lines and proportions of the clothing harmonize with your own natural lines -- similar to the idea of wearing colours that highlight and harmonize with your own natural colouring and contrast levels.

So, sometimes it takes an objective eye to help us see ourselves -- especially if we are untrained in design. At the same time, we'll know ourselves if something feels "all wrong" on us and if we are trying to squeeze into a box that does not fit, well, to heck with it!

So, I scored 142, where Theatrical Romantic stops at 132 and Romantic starts at 154. No red crosses for me! I guess the quiz must have thought the answers were enough in line with each other?
Interesting that this version of a quiz didn’t ask about your hair at all? When I looked into this 2 years ago after it was first mentioned by I think Style Fan, I thought I might be a TR but it kept saying they would have long wavy romantic hair- which I did used to have, but not since age 35 when I chopped it all off.
I would like to be a TR! Do those of you who “know” me on here think that could be right? I’m also a bit puzzled though re the similarity in the words “Dramatic” and “Theatrical”. The body shapes are not similar at all.
The Sassy Shoemaker’s Elf likes the sound of theatrics

Jenni, I always thought maybe Flamboyant Gamine but I can see Theatrical Romantic, too. Because it is true you don't have a whole lot of "yang." Totally nonexpert, of course.

Dramatic is "yang" -- angles, long lines.

Theatrical is "yin" -- softness, roundness.

That's gross shorthand.

@Janet, Classic-Romantic sounds just like you, if you ask me! A bit of drama, a bit of goth (or punk), classic, streamlined, pretty, soft, edgy.

@Jenn, you have to be a natural of some sorts, if I have made any sense out of this Kibbe theory. You also already tend to choose very interesting and rich textures, in natural fibres, flowy skirts, bohemian, verging on avant garde. Your style is gorgeous.

This was fun! I've always been curious when Kibbe types were brought up and finally checked. Took the quiz and then did some reading. I fall between a Theatrical Romantic and Romantic. Seems quite spot on, depending on how my weight fluctuates. It's strange timing but since the last couple of days, I've been thinking how I how i want to bring back the bombshell and romantic elements to my style and play around in my wardrobe. Will take this as a fun sign

I went down the Kibbe rabbit hole and found it helpful. I did the quiz but reading the descriptions and looking at similar women to me helped the most. I quite like AlyArt on youtube as well.

Helena - I do believe you have it right. I can see classic and gamine in your style.

Jenn - neither you nor I are gamine!! We are both naturals of some sort. I am confident about this. We might interpret it in different ways but we both like long lines, a relaxed air, not too structured or tailored looks. Mixed textures are good on us.

For me, I don't worry too much about whether I am natural, soft natural or flamboyant natural (I want to be flamboyant but I may not be). But I get it wrong when I veer into the classic or gamine - which is probably why my polka dot dress never feels right! Lightbulb:)

Jenni - I could see you in the Romantic category or even the Flamboyant Gamine.

Hi all, sorry I sort of abandoned thread as I had a prolonged lunch-date with my Dad today But of course, you all are wiser than me on this as you usually are! Some great learnings in here!

All I can add is echoes of the ideas and solutions offered above, especially Sal's point about not worrying too much about what sub-type you are, once you feel you know your main category. This reminds me of all my colour analysis paralysis, where I was busy trying to figure out am I a soft summer or a dark or cool winter, or what - meanwhile, from a practical perspective, all I really needed to know was I'm a cool - that's more than enough information, given that if I want a navy blazer, say, they aren't going to have a cool winter navy and a soft summer navy, etc. etc. If it's going to be anything beyond fun (which is fine in itself!) it's got to be practical. Once I know I'm classic and not natural, then I'm going to go for tailoring and symmetry vs. a bit of flow and unstructured-ness - that's enough to keep me busy without adding minutiae to the equation!

The other piece is the points about DYOT and appreciating different body types and their unique beauty - if that's all this quiz accomplishes, then more power to it!

xx

Ah, ok, limitations of Survey Monkey -- I can understand that, and let go of being miffed about the red x's.

Also, Suz, that's a really helpful perspective on the development and historical context of Kibbe. I must admit that from my GenX perspective, the idea of figuring out which classic movie star I'm most like didn't seem exactly progressive at first. But I can see that in a milieu in which beauty standards are quite narrow, the insight that these movie stars (who are all deemed desirable) actually represent quite a diversity of physical attributes could be really transformative. Thanks for breaking that down for me.

(And yes, beauty standards still have a ways to go to be truly inclusive. I would love to see more size diversity in the examples of different types, for one. And I wonder if the typing system/questionnaire itself -- although I understand that those are not equivalent -- is as inclusive of fat bodies as it could be.)

I always hesitate when these Kibbe threads take hold of the forum because I find it disheartening how his ideas get turned into just another “which box do you fit into” system. Thanks, Suz and L’Abeille, for giving the thread a bit more context about the point Kibbe was trying to make in his book.


I think Kibbe’s ideas can be a useful jumping off point for women who do not fit easily into the Scarlet Johanssons and Marilyn Monroes images of feminine beauty. As a young woman, the prevailing style guidelines had always directed me to find ways to remodel my angular, sharp, IT shape to camouflage and soften my “flaws” and to dress to “balance” my shape so as to look more like an hourglass. Reading Kibbe was like a breath of fresh air. His idea of celebrating my angularity instead of trying to soften and re-shape it offered a much more interesting, and positive, way to dress.

A couple of note of interest: Kibbe used Hollywood “stars”, not celebrities or models, to illustrate his different images of feminine beauty because those “stars” of the 40s and 50s had been carefully groomed by the Hollywood machine to present very distinct, defined feminine images to their fans. Katherine Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, Vivien Leigh, Betty Grable, Rita Hayworth, Doris Day, Audrey Hepburn, and Joan Crawford were all deemed to be “lookers” in the eyes of the public—but they were all staged to be very different creatures. Once their “look” had been created by the studio, it was expected, as “stars”, that they would always dress to uphold their image when in public. Kibbe thought the constant nature of these images would make it easier for women to learn about his archetypes. Celebrities and stars of today are much harder to pin down into Kibbe archetypes.

Kibbe also used labels like Dramatic, Gamine, and such to help solidify his archetypes, although in later years he did regret using these terms because they were too often associated with clothing styles instead of the defined celebrity image. A dramatic outfit can be worn by any of the Kibbe types, but a Kibbe Dramatic would not wear the same outfit as a Kibbe Gamine if both were following his guidelines.

In his latter years, Kibbe also tried to distance himself from the multiple quizzes and reinterpretations which flooded the Internet. He suggested that a woman ought to have an instinctive attraction to the archetype which represents her body’s lines. The scoring is just a preliminary way of determining if a woman veers towards Yin, Yang, or is a midpoint balance of the two. He surmised that most women would be on one side or the other of the spectrum, but that for some woman, it would be easier to think of themselves as in the middle. He was also dubious of having untrained eyes categorizing a woman since there was so much misinterpretation of his archetypes.

I think, for me, Kibbe seemed to offer a more positive way to think about the role the lines and proportions of our bodies can play in helping us find ways to dress ourselves. Instead of giving us another “Do and Don’t” approach, I think the best part of Kibbe is how it can can get us thinking more about how to work with our distinctive shapes to celebrate our uniqueness instead of always trying to emulate a very narrow ideal of feminine beauty.

Edited to Add: For what it’s worth, I suspect that, like L’Abeille, I fit into Kibbe’s Flamboyant Natural category but my facial features are definitely Dramatic. Somehow following the Dramatic category feels more “right” because those guidelines harmonize my face with my body, Instead of worrying about which category, I’ve found that focusing on my “yangness” has been the biggest game changer in my style evolution.

I agree with Gaylene - it is the intent and the beauty of all bodies/looks that is the key finding. It is about playing to your strengths - and developing a signature look that suits you. Helena - you certainly have that. I am sure it has changed through the years and will change further, but the core does not change.

Where I find it a bit more challenging is the link with personality and in some cases the workforce. If you are a corporate lawyer but in the romantic category it can be more challenging than for a classic or a dramatic. Where I work among males in an airport environment, wearing dramatic clothes can feel a bit out of place. But there are tweaks - for example in jewelry and even shoes that can make a basic outfit feel more like ourselves. I do think some people can also feel that their personality is different to their kibbe type - maybe a flamboyant natural who is quiet and reserved for example. But they are different things.

As with colour theory I do think some people fit it very neatly, and others don't so much. I feel the Kibbe types fit me more clearly than the colour theory - whilst I do think I am a spring I don't really quite believe that I should only wear these colours and do not do so.

I think Kibbe can be helpful in appreciating your body and recognizing why you are drawn to certain looks, or why certain looks don’t work for you.

In my case, on this quiz I’m at the top of the TR score. That goes along with a number of things that intuitively make sense for me. I’m always going to be curvy - have seen this over a 50lb weight span. So “classics” like a white button down shirt (or woven shirts in general) are never going to be go to’s for me. On the other hand, my family commented at one point about my go to “mom dress” - jersey, draping front, curve skimming, color, print...a perfect fit for my type.

If Kibbe helps you recognize why you are drawn to certain clothes, or why others don’t work for you, awesome. But I wouldn’t get too worked up about fitting all the boxes. And I would say that your personality and interests have to factor in as well. Yes, I can dress like a bombshell. No, I’m not comfortable w that much cleavage at work. So what aspects work for my personal taste?

And...adding to Suz. Thank goodness we live in a time where we can celebrate individuality!

I think we are an eminently sensible lot here and I agree with all that Gaylene, Sal, and Gretchen have said.

I got Classic! What do you think?
I think of myself as more of a theatrical romantic or a dramatic classic.

Helena, I think of you as a classic, possibly a dramatic classic.

I do consider Kibbe a system of categorization. I don’t think it helps much with how I dress, but it’s fun analyze myself and others on the yin/yang scale.

Smittie - I think maybe a Dramatic Classic? Not that I am an expert.....

I appreciate what L'Abeille, Gaylene, Suz and others have said about Kibbe and categorizing in general. It is a helpful tool in so far as it makes you see yourself from a fresh light, and validates the many varieties of beauty in the world.
Having worked with Survey Monkey on the job, it is the Monkey not you. Nonetheless, I persisted and by opening each section separately managed to test as a dramatic classic - although I believe I am closer to flamboyant gamine. This classification was suggested to me right here on this forum and the more I thought about it the more it stuck. You see Kibbe does not ask if you have a crooked mouth, dramatic eyebrows, or an asymmetric nose.
I do think it is helpful to know what others think of us, so in that spirit, I will randomly, with no claimed expertise, say that I see Jenn as soft natural, Janet as soft dramatic, Suz is definitely flamboyant gamine to me, Jenni theatrical romantic, and TorontoGirl, soft classic, although I see the gamine influence. Those are simply the people on this thread I remember AND can clearly picture in my mind.

I found that Kibbe did not try to hide "flaws" and I liked that about his work. I found it much easier to figure out my "colours" than my Kibbe. But I had a mental block to my Kibbe and not to my colours.

Interesting, Style Fan. I think it is true -- some of us are a bit resistant to colour theory and others to line/ proportion. But when we figure out how to interpret both to our advantage, we often see the light, LOL.

Shevia -- yep -- it's Flamboyant Gamine or Gamine for me, for sure. (Kibbe stopped using the general term -- I'm still not sure if I fit closer to that or the flamboyant version, but probably flamboyant.) I'd put you there for sure. Oh, um, maybe I did.

Smittie, I see Dramatic Classic, probably...and I also agree with you and Gaylene that just focusing on yin/yang can be a lightbulb and probably enough!

Sal, you have a very level head about all of this and totally get it.

Hmm. I’m super intrigued that you all seem to identify me as a Natural, because that doesn’t feel right to me. I don’t have an athletic body type at all, and didn’t, even when I weighed 120 lbs in high school. I’m also 5’9”. I’m actually thinking Dramatic. I do wear florals, but generally dark, bold ones. Anything frilly or flouncy looks silly on me. I gravitate to clean lines, long jackets and cardigans, defined necklines. Also, a lot of people tell me they found me intimidating when they first met me.

I did not read the other responses yet, but never have any luck with this type of quiz. For Kibbe my face ( soft and round) does not match up with my body ( curve,ess and boney straight.). Good luck but don’t take it very seriously.

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts on the topic!

Joy, this is an interesting question - there is a style blogger who believes you should dress for your face, rather than your body - seem counter-intuitive, but the examples she shows are compelling. Definitely interesting to consider when the two seem at odds?

Gaylene, thanks for sharing your knowledge of the system!

The yin/yang thing is a major lightbulb for me. Sort of like how ultimately in practice, cool/warm is (to me) the most truly useful part of colour analysis), I wonder if yin/yang might prove the same?

I can think of a few outfits that theoretically should have worked on me (right colours, good fit, etc.) but that fell flat - in retrospect, one was very 'yin' (and I felt clumpy in it); another very 'yang' (and I felt dominated by it). Assuming I am classic, I need a balance of the two, which would explain the issue with these two ... for example, if I imagine the yang print on the yin dress, I can see both working far better ...

So interesting! If anyone has great resources on the yin/yang piece, do share!

Jenn, that is interesting about people finding you intimidating. People have said that about me.
I don't think much about the Kibbe stuff when I am picking outfits. I am aware that I do better with structured clothing, more tailored fits, things like that. I also keep to simple minimalistic looks. I feel most comfortable and myself with these.

Torontogirl, would it be ok to share the name of that style blogger? I think in my case, her idea of dressing for face rather than body shape is correct.

Ophelia, of course! This particular woman has again her own ideas about style IDs and colours, etc ... so as with all systems, take it as one person's opinion - but I do think she makes some great points! Lmk what you think of it!

https://www.truth-is-beauty.co.....-your-body

Justine's video really helped me get a better understanding of the yin/yang part (the quiz she linked, not so much)

I agree with the exaggerating your "flaws" instead of hiding them part. I am tall and rather rectangular, broad shouldered and overall... large? I always feel most feminine and pretty when I play up these features (although it verges on linebacker with to much shoulder emphasis), boxy silhouettes, tailored, sharp, androgynous, dramatic, flamboyant. I feel like I'm playing dress up and like a "fake" in too cute, flimsy and conventional pretty outfits. Here I totally agree with Kibbe. There's little info on how the diverse spectre of bodies, ethnicity and I guess also gender identity fits into this system though. The theory itself on how feminine beauty consist of many facets is very interesting!

I am another person who probably has an extremely distorted self-perception. Also, does one adjust for race/ethnicity? I am pretty big and chunky by Asian standards, but just the opposite by American ones. By what standard do I evaluate the width of my nose? And my height? And so on.

As I have aged, I think my clothes have gotten more theatrical/dramatic./flamboyant. But maybe that's just belated rebellion, lol, after my mom died so I no longer have to listen to her judgments. The yin end of the spectrum has never appealed to me and overly drapey has never looked good. Super yang appeals but never fits quite right. Not sure that Kibbe would lead me to make different choices, but I love what Gaylene and L'Abeille wrote.