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Juniors sizing

Gigi

Veteran

As I have often lamented on the forum, I have a hard time finding clothes because I wear an XXS petite or a 00 petite. In an effort to try to expand my available clothes base, I was thinking about going to juniors' departments. I tried some tops on today in the Nordstrom Juniors' department and found that the tops were all too long, just like in misses' sizing. Does anyone know whether bottoms in juniors' sizing operate just like misses' also? Is the main difference in juniors' sizing that you more often have smaller sizes like XS, and the overall "vibe" is different, but otherwise it's the same as for misses'?

Dressing

18 replies

Latest reply was from DonnaF

Glory

Veteran

I am unsure but am bumping for those in the know

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will pipe in...I don't think lengths in juniors are all that different from misses sizes. The differences are more in the sizing and the cuts. Similar to petites in that there might be higher armholes. etc. But not necessarily shorter in sleeve length, rise, length of pant, etc.

Still I think it is worth hunting for stuff anyway -- leaving no retail stone unturned, as Angie says.

I suspect that for most truly petite women, alterations are the only way to go. An expensive proposition, it's true.

Alterations Needed is a great site for ideas and reviews.

Liz A.

Veteran

I find juniors to be straighter in their cuts... less room for ample bosom or hips. The length may just be the style of the moment.

rute

Veteran

I confess I have done that with basic t-shirts and knit sweaters (as knitted sweaters are hard to alter).
Here we don't have misses, but I have bought junior sizes for me. The main difference is that the cut is straight.
I prefer to buy petite and alter. The junir sizes have no room for the bust and no waist definition.

Diana

Veteran

I find juniors to be overall cut slimmer, tighter, and shorter in certain aspects. Sometimes I buy Juniors' tops because they fit my short waist and high armholes better. I do generally need to size up in juniors tops. I rarely fit into the bottoms. For reference I am a size 8/M on top normally but I almost always buy L in juniors.

In general, the quality is commensurate with the price. You won't find very high quality fabrics or luxury fibers like silk and cashmere very often since the target market (teens) can't usually afford them.

Cary

Yes, everything is straighter, in my experience. But there doesn't seem to be much difference in length.

Thistle

Veteran

What Diana said!

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Yep, like Diana, I've done Jr's for shirts or jackets and I go to medium whereas I'm a 4 in ladies most the time. I'm a bit short in the torso and can sometimes do petites, but often Jr. medium is better.

Greyscale

Veteran

Agreed that the main difference is the very slim cut. Narrow hips, narrow sleeves, and not much room in the chest. The only juniors clothes I can wear are skirts, because my hips are narrow for my size.

I guess the other difference is that the quality tends to be lower. More fast fashion, fewer items that hold up over time.

My opinion is that it's easy to get things shortened but hard to correct fit problems in your torso and hips. So if the juniors sizes fit other than length, go for it, and just get them altered.

DonnaF

Veteran

I recently bought two utility vests from Nordstrom, one in a misses size and the other in a juniors size. Both were from the same manufacturer and they looked fairly similar online but had a $20 price difference. The color was the same but the fabric was different. The junior jacket had a high-low hem and was about 1" longer in front than the misses one, but the waists didn't seem to hit me much differently; I was surprised that the junior size wasn't a tad shorter. The finish was miles apart.

Junior pants are definitely slimmer through the legs and probably have smaller seats and hips with bigger waists.

Very slim petites and other slender women probably have the best luck with finding small enough clothes in designer wear in the U.S. and in shopping in Asia and Europe. IMHO, I think the American predilection for super-sized fast food has led to mass market department stores and the like to start their inventory at a relatively large size.

Anonymous

This discussion is fascinating and tells me why, even as a teen, juniors clothing never fit me well!

Gigi, to your point, I'm wondering if petite sizing would work better for you, or whether you could aim for brands that tend to run on the smaller/narrower side. I'm thinking about Theory, for example, but I know there are others.

Have you tried Express for basics? My mom is very petite and has had good luck finding layering tees and cardis at Express.

Anonymous

I was curvy even as a teen, and wore clothing my mom made me or clothing from the misses' dept. (sometimes petite, sometimes regular).

My youngest DD is only 5' tall and wears a size 0. We've had luck with Kohl's, but not this year. This year's styles are slutty, to say the least. My DD is wearing Hollister and American Eagle clothing handed down to her by my oldest DD, who outgrew them. Luckily, many of the items were practically brand new, so I haven't had to buy any clothes for her this year.

Gigi

Veteran

Thanks, everyone. This has been very helpful. I am so grateful for this forum!

@Stacey, I do think that petite sizing is best for me; however, it is extremely difficult to find anything in XXS petite and 00 petite. In the past, I have thought about shopping in the girls' dept., but the style is so youthful (Hannah Montana, cartoon characters) as to make it not worth the effort. So I thought juniors' might be a nice compromise. Also, I am trying to learn about who I am by wearing different kinds of clothes, so I wouldn't mind finding a source for cheaper clothes that wouldn't necessarily be high quality--my fashion persona might very well change some months down the road. Theory, unfortunately, is way out of my price range. I have been to Express once and bought a pair of skinnies, which were huge in the waist and too long. But I will keep them in mind in the future--one failure does not mean that everything will be a failure! I am finding that the rises on petite pants are better for me, though sometimes depending on the brand I can make a regular work as long as I wear a belt (Old Navy and American Eagle seem to be in this category).

@Donna, you are exactly right that everyone seems to be getting bigger, which has led many stores to start their inventory at larger sizes. The other day, Karin posted a terribly cute outfit, and I asked her where she got her stuff. One of the places was JC Penney. I went to their website, and they don't carry anything smaller than I think a 4 petite, which is huge on me. I loved your story about the two vests you bought at Nordie's--what a fascinating comparison!

I did try on one pair of jeans in size 00 in the juniors' section at Nordie's when I was there. They were really gappy in the waist--unbelievably gappy. That must be the smaller seat and bigger waist that Donna talked about. When the SA came back to check on me, I said they were huge, and I could tell from the look on her face that she was quite surprised at this response. I think this is because although I don't have much of a rear end, I do have prominent hips. So maybe juniors' pants won't work for me. I did try on a maxi skirt that worked well, though.

What I have learned from this thread is that I should continue my foray into the juniors' department, because it might bear fruit. It may be a matter of finding particular stores or brands that work for me.

Ajoanna

Although I am by no means an expert on the technical aspects of sizing, I am in an in-between stage between Juniors and Misses. I frequently shop both, but since my budget is small (college bills :() this is based on lower-end stores, so I'm not sure if I'll even be of any help.

-As a general rule, most junior sizing leaves no room for bust or hips. The fit is very straight.
-In my personal opinion, I think Junior's tops are longer than most Misses tops.
-I think Junior skirts are extremely hard to fit. They have almost no room for hips, and because the fabric is often unlined and/or thin (Hello, pantylines!), it's even harder to find a good fit if you're not a rectangle shape. For example, I normally wear a 6-8 in Misses, but I sometimes have to size up to an 11 or 13 to get to get the skirt to fit my hips, leaving a gaping chasm at my waist.

Depending on your body shape, I think you can definitely have some success at finding good options in the Juniors sections, especially for tops. Bottoms might be more difficult.

Out of curiosity, have you tried Ann Taylor/Loft? I've had some success in finding smaller sizes there. I also like Express.

K. Period.

Veteran

I think you have had lots of good advice from other and that you have a good approach figured out Gigi. I would add to it two thoughts, though: First, online shopping is going to be a lot more fruitful for you than brick and mortar store shopping because of the expanded size ranges online. You list BR as one of your favorite stores. I'm guessing you know their petite sizes very well. I know many other stores carry much smaller sizes online than in stores. Maybe try a "calling all posters" post here on the forum and ask for recommendations for online sites that carry petites in extra small sizes? I know a few folks around here are quite petite and they may have good information.

Second, you may have better luck by committing to a long friendship with a tailor rather than trying to find a good fit off the rack in juniors or an online store. Buying fewer, better quality clothes and tailoring them to your shape could work wonders. Even cheaper fun clothes can be great value, if they are things that make you very happy and don't cost a lot to tailor. If you buy a $30 H&M blouse and spend $15 to get the cuffs lifted up, that might be a good value. I think that's one of the great concepts at Alterations Needed. She really understands and talks about where and when it makes sense to tailor.

As an aside, I wonder about your shape descriptor. You say you are an IT with slim hips, a short waist, a long neck, but you also have waist gaping and pronounced hips. I wonder if you are just a very slim but more balanced shape? Maybe a very slim hourglass (like Angie)? I'm an IT with rectangle or apple secondary tendencies and I've never met a pair of pants that created waist gaping with me and that seems to be a common complaint with my fellow IT posters around here. I've noticed that ITs tend to have long legs, high waists that are not particularly pronounced, moderate to large busts and short necks. Actually, I've seen a number of times when a person who was quite slim mistakenly felt like they were an IT because they say their shoulders as their biggest feature and they were used to thinking of their slimness as non-curviness rather than non-fleshiness. Posting pictures and asking for help identifying your shape takes a leap of faith, but can be quite revealing.

Greyscale

Veteran

K, your comment about IT shape is so insightful. For a long time I thought I had an IT or rectangle shape - but I am really, really an hourglass, formerly in denial about it and making all the mistakes you describe.

Gigi, I've found that the girls' section is not worth it. The sizes scale up oddly, so the size 14 (roughly the same as a 0) is much boxier than a 0. I do shop in the boys' section for flannels and jeans sometimes, though!

Gigi

Veteran

@Ajoanna, your advice was very helpful! Thanks. It's interesting what you said about the skirts being thin--the skirt I tried on at Nordie's fit great, but it was the thin, clingy nature of the fabric that made me not buy it. I think you may be right that I will have more luck with tops in juniors'. However, the length issue is going to pose a problem. One step forward, two steps back... But hemming things is an easy alteration, as someone else pointed out.

@K, I do do a lot of online shopping, but I wanted to branch out into some other styles of clothes that weren't available at the usual suspects, and when I get into nonpetite sizing, I like to try stuff on at the B&M stores first to see what I'm dealing with. Hence my exploration of the juniors' department.

I struggle with my body shape descriptor. I think I am actually what is called a figure 8 in Imogen's system at InsideOut Style. The figure 8 is like an hourglass but with high hips that are kind of like a "shelf." This is me! The IT is really kind of secondary. In fact, if I were to gain back the weight that I have lost due to health issues, the IT would probably somewhat go away, as figure 8's tend to gain weight on their hips (= love handles), and that would balance out my wide shoulders (which aren't a huge amount wider than my hips). I think that my shoulder width is exaggerated by the fact that I have not much of a bust, so I have nothing to detract from the shoulder-to-shoulder dimension.

I've been thinking about posting pictures but haven't had the time to experiment with it. I don't have a digital camera and would have to take a picture using my computer video camera. The resolution is not great, and the computer opens up into my entire apartment, so you can see everything in my place, which is quite distracting and a bit of a privacy issue for me.

I am trying to find a good tailor. I am trying a new one this week, to have my maxi skirt shortened. There's one very nearby that I tried previously, and I was very impressed when he was pinning me (he was very careful to think about where he was going to cut out material instead of just going for the easiest route, which might not look the best). But when I got my jeans skirt back from him, one of the side seams did not lay flat and puffed out a bit. I took it back, and he said he would fix it. When I picked it up the second time, it was a bit better but still not flat. So I don't want to continue on with him, because I think that this probably should not have been a difficult job. But it is tough figuring in at least $20 per item of clothes to get things to fit, when I don't have much money and I am "trying on" different fashion personas. If my life and fashion persona (and income!) were more stable, I would be more willing to do this. So for the time being, it is mostly off-the-rack stuff for me.

DonnaF

Veteran

Gigi;
The gals who write the Alterations Needed and Extra Petite blogs are probably about your size, so they would be able to alert you to items that might fit.

I think you are pretty much sized out of Nordstrom petites which start at PXS and some of their PXS aren't all that small. HOWEVER, you may wish to look into Topshop items if you are interested in trendier pieces. I believe Topshop is based in the UK, and their sizing is UK sizing and runs very small. The quality isn't super high, but neither are the prices. Topshop has some petite items, but I think you would find them mixed in with regular sizes in the Topshop section of Nordstrom; searching Nordstrom.com is probably easier.