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J Crew introduces size 000

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

Interesting little blurb about J Crew's new size for skinny jeans. Got a kick out of the "headband" comment!

http://stylenews.peoplestylewa.....ns-debate/

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37 replies

Latest reply was from Niki Lea

Beth

Veteran

Interesting article, especially as how the sizing relates to expanding sales in Asia. I get where they're coming from, but if vanity sizing hadn't gone so awry, it might not have been an issue in the first place. I wore a J. Crew size 2 twenty years and thirty pounds ago, and I'm still in a size 2 now, which isn't possible.

That said, the inconsistent sizing within retailers makes me crazier. My J. Crew pieces range from a size 0 to a size 10. It makes in-store shopping frustrating and internet shopping an impossibility.

Vildy

Veteran

I note the 23 " waist. When I was a girl I had a 21 1/2" waist and they called that size 3 junior petite.

Isabel

Veteran

Wow. I love the twitter comment about it actually being a size 4T. LOL !

Thistle

Veteran

I am glad to see more sizing inclusivity. Women come in all shapes and sizes, and I appreciate retailers who cater to them.

CocoLion

(website)

Veteran

I think it's valid. Having lived in Asia, the US and Europe, sizing is relative to the population. In Asia I am an M (Tokyo) or L (Hong Kong). In Northern Europe I am a Small, in Italy and France I am a Medium sized woman. In the US I am an XS if I am shopping brands intended for my demographic. I am a S or M in the brands I actually wear.

Gigi

Veteran

This is great for those Asian women especially. I have a terrible time finding bottoms to fit, but I at least have probably normal-sized hips for my European gene pool. Asian women generally have much narrower hips.

I find the headband comment somewhat offensive.

As far as toddler sizes, it is interesting when I am shopping somewhere where the retailer has its own kids' line of clothing as well as grown-up stuff. I'll be in the dressing room swimming in the adult stuff, so I'll tell the SA to bring me something from children's. She will invariably bring me the largest-size children's stuff they have, and it will be too big! I have found that in general, the largest children's sizes are actually bigger than, say, an XS misses', let alone an XXS petite.

CocoLion, thanks for sharing how your size changes across the globe! Very interesting. I remember trying on some Maje jeans in Nordstrom (a French brand), and that was the first time in recent years that I had found jeans that were too small for me! That made me smile. Not all is lost.

Gaylene

Veteran

Seems to me that the fuss is about the numbering system, not about J Crew extending its range of sizes, which brings me to my point--why does anyone care about the numbers?

I get that ordering online is difficult because it's hard to figure out the correct size but we've been around this "standardization" topic several times on the forum, and for what it is worth, I'm GLAD that there isn't a standard size X based on the dimensions of the "average woman". My IT proportions make me the exact opposite of the "average" pear/hourglass frame so a standardized size 10 across all companies would mean I'd always be faced with wearing clothes that billowed around my non-existent hips, strangled my largish waist, and refused to button around my chest. And as for sizing variation within the same company, much of that depends on how you like your clothes to fit. Some of us want our clothes to show the outline of our body, while others prefer a looser, drapier fit. Even those of us who like drape differ on exactly the point when the drapey/slouchy turns into baggy. So whose definition of fit and length do we use to "standardize"; my vote would be for my 5'7" length and preference for a loose, drapey fit, but I suspect some of our more petite members might object to drowning in their "standardized" clothes. As for those for complain about how today's size 2 used to be a size 8, who cares? Unless you are interested in vintage clothing, what is the point of knowing what your dress size would have been fifty years ago?

OK, I'll stop my rant here, but I think it's time to break out the champagne and celebrate when any company extends its size range to accommodate more people. Personally, I think companies ought to be required to reverse their numbering systems; under my proposal, size 000 will become size 20 and the current size 20 will become size 0000. Even when the inevitable complaints start about how terrible it is to be thought of as a 0, it might still be a refreshing change as to which group gets to feel upset at not having their own number and whose size will be inevitably at the bottom of the stack.

Dana

(website)

Veteran

My first thought when I saw the title of the post was that I came out of the womb bigger than a size 000, lol! It's true though that manufacturers really should be making more sizes on both ends of the range.

I've often thought when I buy a small in something (I'm almost alway a M), "what size are then xs women wearing?" I'm typically a size 8, and find it somewhat offensive when I go in a shop where it's the largest size they carry and they're out of it.

It actually makes me sad that there isn't more available for plus sized women. Ann Taylor seems like it would do well if they offered plus sizes. Similarly, they could do well with 000 as I find them to run a bit big. One last rant...there also needs to be more for pretties and tall women!

Janet

(website)

Veteran

I'm with you, Dana, on all the points you made!

I tried on an Eileen Fisher skirt recently and the small was a touch generous in size on me. Come on. I'm a size 6-8, usually more like an 8 when it comes to bottoms, and we all know I am not a "small" person. No wonder some smaller ladies here complain about being sized out of EF. There's a manufacturer who could stand to size their clothes down to an XXS, perhaps? Or even an XXXS?

Sure, let's offer whatever that smallest size is (although I know plenty of women who don't love being called a "zero"). And let's offer some larger sizes too. Some of the brands I love to wear top out at a size 10. I'm glad I can fit into some of those brands, but some even more "exclusive" designers don't even get into double digits. I have some choice words for them, none of which are suitable to be repeated here.

kkards

Veteran

Yeah for more sizes! Yeah for the internet making more options available for all of us!
As for the headband and the toddler size comments, wow, how insensitive.

Niki Lea

Veteran

This is definitely good for the Asian market. When I lived in Vancouver it was pretty common to find small sizes and entire stores dedicated to smaller frames. About 43 per cent of Vancouver's population have an Asian heritage (more than in San Francisco, London, or Sydney). So I totally get what J Crew is doing.

Having said that, I also 100% buy the vanity argument.

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

Just so you know, I'm neither pro nor con this new size offering - merely posted it as an interesting item.

danysedai

There was an Asian girl at my local Banana Republic last week when I went on the fitting rooms and she was trying a black maxi skirt. The xs was huge on her, so I think that the market exists.

danysedai

double post

Deborah

Veteran

Yet to read the article, but here in Australia, the only "people" wearing a size "000" are new born babies!

Gigi

Veteran

Shannon, thank you for posting this! I didn't get the feeling that you were pro or con, just posting something for discussion. So no worries.

Gigi

Veteran

Deborah, what is the smallest size offered in Aussie stores? In the U.S., 00 is the smallest size, although not a whole lot of retailers carry it.

Deborah

Veteran

Gigi in women's clothing the smallest size I'm aware of would be a 6. I know some labels go smaller but generally this is what I see. And our sizing is different to US sizing. So an Aussie 6 would be a US 2. And I believe the "average" Aussie woman is a size AU 14! And I think it's fair to say we don't have quite the same obsession with being thin;). And I mean no offence to those ladies who are just naturally thin;)

And to clarify, baby sizing starts at 0000 for very small newborns, 000 for standard size newborn then 00, 0. 1:). So you understand what comes to mind for me when I read 000 in women's sizing!

Edited to correct: sorry lost my train if thought ...and wrote the sizes wrong way round. Thanks Anne.

shiny

Veteran

I support this development, though my waist is now wider than 23 inches. Didn't see the size chart but I assume it corresponds to 33 inch hips. That's what mine are when I'm exercising and lifting weights and all that. They never get wider than 35 inches, which they are right now.

The 4T toddler comment is particularly offensive to me, especially after having to leave a bar tonight because the dang bar stool was too high and my dang legs couldn't reach the foot rest, and it was highly uncomfortable to have dangling dang legs.

More and more the world seems created for giants who tower over me.

At 5'0 tall, there was a long period of my life, when I was fitter, that I was resigned to shopping in the children's section. A child's size 12 fit; size 14 was too big all over.

I am actually glad I'm no longer fit, I am rather fluffy these days. I have enough jiggly fluff that I can now shop in petite departments. (Children's size 14 is still too big - it's a length issue not just width issue). Doctor says I need to drop 10 lbs to control my blood sugar, and I should probably do that. But if I drop 15 lbs I'll be back in the children's section ------- or shopping at J Crew. At least for pants/jeans/skirts.

Niki Lea

Veteran

Shiny, I love reading about other people's shopping experiences. When you consider that we're all so different, it's amazing clothing companies manage to make clothes for any of us ever. My own challenge is my super long waist and mommy belly - even high-waist pants sit below my belly button.

I think the numbers really don't mean very much, since there isn't really an established industry standard for sizing. But there must be demand and a market for the smaller size, or a big company like J. Crew wouldn't bother. In the end, it has to sell.

One more thought. I think those of us who are initially bothered when we hear about women wearing smaller sizes (that was my initial reaction to this story...I felt bad about myself and my ego was bruised) could reflect on why we have that negative reaction. Someone wearing a 000 has no bearing on my own life. It does not change what size I am - I will never be a 000. So, I am going to choose to be happy for the women these clothes are made for.

Tina

Veteran

I agree that size is just a number we use to, hopefully, narrow our search for something that fits. I have no issues with them offering smaller sizes, especially clothing lines that are generously sized. There are times when I'll see a tiny woman and wonder where she finds clothes to fit! I wear a 0 or 2 in the average store (BR is pretty consistent) and I do sympathize with the really petite ladies, I don't consider myself petite although I'm just a shade over 5'3".
The only concern I would have is for those women who pride themselves in wearing the smallest size. Not everyone is convinced that size is just a number and there will no doubt be some who will starve themselves (even more!) so they can will still be in that category.

Gigi

Veteran

Deborah, I imagine you did have quite a chuckle at the idea of 000 sizing for women! Ha ha. Maybe they will use a lot of spandex... ;^)

Wow, the sizing is really different in Australia! I had no idea. That would really size out a large portion of the population in the States. Although I struggle to find clothes that fit, at least I *can* find some to fit!

Shiny, I'm sorry about your having to leave the bar tonight. That is so frustrating! And shopping in the children's section drives me nuts. Even though I'm short waisted, it seems like the tops aren't long enough. And I have long arms, so the sleeves are too short too.

anne

Veteran

Deborah, I'd afraid I don't think that is correct - in terms of the correlation with US sizes. I had been told that it was about 2 sizes smaller. So an Australian 10 is a US 4. I, who wear either 8 or 10 Australian (occasionally 6) would be either a 4 or a 6 in US sizing. I do actually own one US item in a 2. My experience seeing people mention their sizes and dimensions over the years on YLF would back this up.
Like CL I was an L in Japan (and an M when I got down to my smallest adult weight (around Suz's size).
I support having a smaller size. I have shops or ranges I am sized out of and yet am 5'4 and a not particularly small frame, and have often wondered where smaller women would shop, particularly if they don't want to go to teen shops

retailgirl

Veteran

When I was in high school and college, I wore a size 12 or 14. Today, I wear a 6 or 8...and I am the same height and weight! When I first started in retail, (1970), the smallest size we carried was 8, and size 36 for blouses or sweaters. There were no petites. Plus sizes were called " half sizes" and were usually just house dress type things. (House dress...what women used to wear all day at home, over a girdle, stockings and a full slip, only to change into a regular dress when the man of the house came home. I'm not making this up! This was in the fifties.). Wow. So many changes in fashion and the way we live!

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Well said, Niki Lea!

retailgirl, I remember when I was a teenager, I read an article about a beautiful young star in one of the soap operas my mom watched, and the writer breathlessly informed us that the star was a "perfect size 6." That was a very small size at the time, and she was a petite woman, probably 5'2". I'm betting anything that she'd be in a size 0 or maybe even 00 now. I was wearing size 10, and I was 5'7" and 115 lbs. Now, at 5'7" and 140 lbs, I'm wearing a 6 or 8. Makes NO sense.

retailgirl

Veteran

Janet...I know! I'm 5'8" and 130 or so, and I can't believe it when I can fit into a 6...it actually makes it hard for me to shop and I have to be careful to not buy my clothes too big. Several times I've tried on a 6 or 8, and have thought, that's good, but have had a SA suggest a size down which was better. I think, if I wear what I consider a small size, what do really small people do? It's crazy.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Although I know the men's sizing isn't perfect either, it's a lot better than women's! I'd just as soon buy 27 jeans and 34 blouses and be done with it. Sure, some brands would be cut slimmer or more generously, but at least we'd know what inches their parameters were meant for. J Crew would simply be adding size 23 or whatever the 000 actually measures. Makes a lot more sense to me, anyway.

Nebraskim

Veteran

My cousins who live in Mpls are full-blood Japanese (but American citizens) who probably wear in the Size 000 range. They do not have eating disorders, they are just exceptionally tiny people due to heritage. Because I'm a Hapa, I am so much larger than they. I wear a size 12. Interestingly, I have a couple of denim pencil skirts I got at Talbot's about 10 years ago that I still wear that fit well and are size16. I bought a similar skirt at Talbot's this spring in size 12. If you lay one over the other, the older 16 is a tiny bit bigger than the current 12. In Chico's skewy size world (I like their no iron shirts but nothing else there), I wear a Size 1 in blouses and a 1.5 in pants. Just no sense at all. I do try to go buy fit and not by number but it's a challenge.

Minnie

I don't really care what size I'm wearing as long as it fits.
My main problem is that at 5'10 many items are just too short. It limits which brand of jeans I can wear and dresses that are described as knee length are mini on me. I buy quite a few clothes in Germany as they seem to be made for taller women than many US brands.

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