Wow, ladies, thank you! There's a real split to the advice -- some saying suck it up so it doesn't escalate, and I would hate it to escalate. Some saying don't let them get away with such obnoxious behavior.

I am inclined to be a peacekeeper in life. However, this only works when the other party is sane and reasonable. Since these neighbors have the gall to tell me I'm inconsiderate when they are the ones making the hellish racket, and I warned them an hour before calling the cops, I can only conclude they are not sane and reasonable. I will still deal fairly and give them fair warning. But I am going to hold my ground.

Earplugs: I have them, use them, and I can faithfully report that they do not work with the bass that is so loud you can feel it in your body, nor the screams. Oh, the screaming.

Making other plans: I don't want to make other plans as some of you suggest because I feel that is
an unreasonable thing for them to ask of us. It feels as if we would be
saying, "ok, three times a year is just fine with us" -- which it's not.
What will make them stop there, since they are already so blind to our
feelings? They might just step it up to six times a year, or two-day
parties, or...? How would I know where their line is? That's my thought process that makes me want to hold the
line here. Bullies are bullies and I have to stand up to them.

Ladywone - thank you! I appreciate your empathy.

April - thanks for telling about your community parties. It's weird how people like to batter their eardrums and strain their vocal cords and call that "fun".

Claudia - what a shocking story! I am so sorry for you and the trees and animals, that stinks. I don't believe this kind of aggressive and frenetic play is ultimately good for people, psychologically or physically. But that's a whole other thread. I appreciate your advice that we should weigh the possible feud that might erupt. I assure you we are taking that seriously. But I've never met a bully yet who backs down because you give them what they want. Thank you so much for your kind and considered reply!

Irene - Never heard of an Erasmus year so I looked it up. It sounds great, in theory, ha ha! Thanks for sharing your story, ick. I bet this is why the ancient Greeks built their structures of stone, they were so smart, noise doesn't travel well! I'm with you, I would be mortified if I was this neighbor. Thank you!

Iron - Thanks for the ideas! And you're so right, living near other people can suck. It's so much easier to live and let live when there are acres between us. Many of our complex laws should be boiled down into one law: leave me alone. Thank you!

Tex - Thank you! Yes, some of my other neighbors have called the cops at times because they told us about it. One neighbor who called was across the street, so even farther away. I don't think knowing that would faze these people, they feel this is their right. It's my feeling that there is a stigma against people who call the police for help, and as such it has a chilling effect on those who want to but are afraid. So even if nobody else called, it would be an error to assume that no one else feels as I do.

JAileen - "He's not invited to the block party" - ha ha! Thank you for your reply! I'm glad you had success with that dude, what a pain. Does he call the cops on your block party?

I am on Team Carter. I've had some neighbors like yours over the years. Call the cops. Over and over if need be. Speak with the cops when they come. There is no need to speak further with your neighbor. She's already been asked nicely.

Even people in the ghetto know you rent a venue for a Sweet 16.

Ok, just checking this thread after asking the question earlier if the party could have been a quinceñera. Your reply was that it *could* be. I suppose I should have asked more clearly, could your neighbors be of Mexican descent?

The reason why I ask is that I have learned a lot about noise pollution and cultural expectations by living in Mexico.

Where I live - and assuming it is culturally the same throughout Mexico - there is no expectation of quiet from neighbors. We live in a densely populated city (20+ million), we live on top of each other, where the walls of standalone, single family houses touch each other and things like green grassy yards are for homes costing half a million US Dollars plus (not your average home). I once did the calculation - my friend, who lives in a midwestern suburb on her 1/4 acre land, would have 3-5 single family homes with no yards on that same amount of space, based on Mexican building norms (and those are generously sized single family homes). I share this only to put into perspective the population density - think NYC, basically.

Here, everyone goes about their business and to each their own. If you want to have a loud, rocking party...go right ahead...but I might just do the same thing (and hire an even LOUDER band/DJ than you, lol).

What my long winded answer is getting at is that there are different CULTURAL expectations regarding noise and tolerance thereof.

As an American living in Mexico, I was quite annoyed when the same thing happened to me - kept awake by loud partygoers (no clue about the yelling, btw) - but then I realized that in Mexico, everyone parties how they want and as long as they want into the wee hours of the morning - with the expectation that you can (and probably will) do the same when it's your turn.

I haven't had time to read every reply on the thread, but did see a few comments...there is no excuse for rudeness or thinking owners have more rights than renters...but as for what you think is acceptable vs what they do, perhaps this is a reason for the discord between you two.

Just offering this as a theory, based on my own experiences living in Mexico.

Hope this helps.

Rachylou- oh my you crack me up but that is so true.

ABC makes a good point - there are different expectations of quiet and outside space in different regions of the world, and actual room/space/layout makes a difference too. A college town in the student area is going to be different than a midwestern suburban subdivision. When I moved to the San Francisco area it was a real adjustment to find everything was so close together compared to what I was used to. In the rural area I grew up in, you couldn't hear your neighbors unless they were screaming en masse or running a chainsaw. The houses were farther apart, they were better insulated, and less activities happened outdoors because of the weather and the fact that the houses were bigger.

But it sounds like what this neighbor is doing is not expected - you didn't mention any of your other neighbors having wild parties on a regular basis, and there is a noise ordinance in your city. The fact that your neighbor owns their house only matters in so much is that they're unlikely to move, so as far as your own personal sanity goes you do have to think about what you can do and what you can live with.

(I think apartments and dorms are a bit different, honestly... There's just something about sharing walls and/or floors and that means that you may occasionally hear your neighbors and vice versa, no matter how well the building is built and how courteous people are. Funnily enough, we live in a duplex and I hear our neighbors on the other side a lot more through the windows than I do the folks on the other side of the house.)

I live across the street from people whose daughter used to have loud destructive parties whenever her mom and dad were not home. I called them and they thanked me the first time since the 16 yo was not allowed to have anyone over when they were not home. The parties happened again and the second time the daughter sent us an apology. Then after senior prom she and her friends left their almost empty bottles of booze in our yard. I told her parents again. Then when the parents had parties their guest felt it was ok to park on my lawn. I mean the entire car on my lawn because cars could not make it down the street otherwise. I never once called the police on them because the husband worked for the government and I did not want to go there, plus he is a lawyer.

Fast forward 10 years later and the daughters are married and they have to deal with neighbors behind them with loud parties and a dog that barks incessantly all night long. They call the police at least once a week regarding the noise. Ironic isn't it!

Well we are friendly now and anytime he has a lot of people over he ropes the area in front of our house off so people don't park there. They even let us know when they are having a party and ask us to knock on their door if it gets too loud.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot they realized what jerks they were and what good neighbors truly are. Maybe your neughbors will learn the hard way.

This is an interesting discussion. I am proud to know such intelligent people as you all, who really consider a subject and its consequences so sincerely.

Rachylou - Thank you for your sympathy and solidarity.

abc - Thank you so much for this insight. You are a wise and compassionate woman and you communicate so clearly.

Yes, they are Americans of Mexican descent. And yes, we have one other neighbor who holds parties that are super loud with the PA system and screaming (though it's the little children screaming, not the adults), also of Mexican descent. They generally stop by 10:00 pm or sooner. Those parties I am ok with. Extreme noise is never ideal, but extreme noise when people are trying to sleep is really bad.

Note to self: do not move to abc's area of Mexico. It sounds like a form of urban warfare is going on in your area... my band's bigger than your band. I feel sorry for all beings who must live under that stress. You sound like you are making the best of a bad situation, and I commend you for trying to adapt.

It is a proven fact that noise affects people psychologically, and it's a form of torture, as is sleep deprivation. Here's a quote from this link to The Guardian's article about a report filed by HumanRightsWatch. "The CIA director, George Tenet: 'Authorised and oversaw the CIA's use of
waterboarding, stress positions, light and noise bombardment, sleep
deprivation, and other abusive interrogation methods, as well as the CIA
rendition program'."
http://www.theguardian.com/wor.....sh-torture

I know standards are different in other lands, but nothing excuses torture.

Laura - Thank you! I realize this is not your experience, but one would think that as people get closer together in living quarters, they would become more cognizant of other people, and be even quieter than on a farm, where you can make virtually any noise you want and no one will hear.

Lara, thank you for sharing that story!

I certainly hope my neighbors do learn, sooner rather than later. I've been hoping they feel compelled to share the story with a sensible friend who can put them on the right track about common courtesy extended to others.

I am inclined to be a peacekeeper in life. However, this only works when the other party is sane and reasonable.....

...and responsible....BINGO ! You have been a peacekeeper for 20 years. And if this "escalates" it is NOT because of you. The victim shouldn't be further victimized or made to feel responsible for standing up to a bully. Then they get to keep bullying. Why does that happen so much in our society ? We so often tell the victimized to not "rock the boat" when the boat is already caught in The Perfect Storm due to someone else. UGH ! Unfortunately these don't sound like people with even a cursory ability to be introspective. : (

I come from an immigrant community and we have a huge influx of Mexicans now as well and we thought just the opposite. We wanted to be gracious to Americans so that they would accept us. And Mexicans have to get up for work too.

And to repeat myself, there is an ordinance for a reason.

I would really hate to waste good kale ( so much soup I could make ), but this is a higher cause ! ONWARD !!!!!!

Isabel, you are wonderful! I love your response, thank you for reminding me I have been the peacekeeper for 20 years. Your intelligent humor and kindness is so precious to me. Maybe we could make the soup and just save the stems for the flogging? Just a thought, cause the soup sounds really gooooood. Love to you, my dear friend.

@ Yes, the kale leaves come off !! : ) Keep us posted. Good luck. Love to you too , Julie. XXXXX

I was sorry to read this JJ!

I know as a singer that even a barely audible 'boom boom' has me at the very least singing my own endless tune to the 'music'.
Hope this is sorted soon.

Thanks, Isabel!

Lyn D - thank you! Yes, it's funny how our brains latch on to it when the beat goes on. What types of things, and where do you sing?

Just a local community Choir, and lots of variety including indigenous.
Used to do the odd amateur musical too- fun!
Tomorrow we are singing at a 'World's Biggest Morning Tea' function to raise money for cancer research. Thanks for asking

Fun! I'm drinking my morning tea right now, while you're well into tomorrow and no doubt sleeping soundly. I raise my cup to your "World's Biggest Morning Tea" and I'm sure you'll have a great time at it!

Well if the Noisy Noxious Neighbors are drinking a lot at these bashes you -could hypothetically - retaliate by booming the 1812 overture on repeat play for hours / all day while you are at work "oops I must have left the stereo on! How on earth did that happen ? (Add big innocent puppy dog eyes) " also get a version done by a military band WITH THE CANNON FIRE and maybe add some bass subwoofers so they REALLY FEEL the BOOOM!!!

Just a thought.
Also be considerate to the rest and do it Only during the appropriate hours( usually 7am-10pm).

Oh and when they fuss claim it's your spring cleaning music . It helps knock the dust off stuff... Uh ,huh...
And it may be semi cathartic to watch Catwoman with Halle Berry . Whenever the nearby club gets too noisy I tend to wish this could be reenacted.

Ha ha, Jennifer, you crack me up! Very creative.

I might see "Neighbors" over the weekend for therapy, whaddya'll think?
http://www.neighbors-movie.com/

hahahahahaha, Jennifer cracked me up too.

Julie did you know that our military tortured people by playing the Barney song over and over and over ? I am completely against torture in the military, but maybe you could play it for your neighbors. You would just be letting them know that you love them despite brouha. Perfect, just perfect.

"I love you, You love me

That is so funny about the film. I thought of that film when you posted. Just bring a flashlight and take notes !!!!

Isabel, you are so funny, wise and wonderful! That is utterly creepy about the Barney song being used by the military. Blecccch (*shaking it off*).

Hi JJ, I'm just catching this saga, yikes!!! I am super sensitive to noise and sound in general (and we go to bed early) so this would drive me absolutely BONKERS. In addition I'm a light sleeper and struggle with insomnia. Just the thought that someone might have a loud party would keep me awake, just stressing about it. I don't have any great suggestions. We sleep with a HEPA air filter on "helicopter" speed to provide some serious white noise, but even then I can hear loud vehicle engines or the base from music through it. The screams would probably be enough to have me committed. I sure hope you can resolve this. I hate conflict too, and I'm usually too chicken to call the police because I'm afraid the person will come after me or my family!

Claire - Thank you for commiserating with me! It helps to know I'm not the only one who finds these noises seriously stressful. Our neighbors on the other side are currently doing a loud thumping party with a PA system and it's currently 7:00 pm. We are hopeful they will respect the 10:00 pm cutoff time, because they are generally more cognizant of the feelings of others than the naughty neighbors.

I went to the movies today but I didn't see "Neighbors" - I saw "Chef" instead and it was hilarious and very good. Probably a good thing - "Neighbors" would have risen my blood pressure too much.

Julie - so sorry for what you are going through! My husband and I needed a "mindless" movie a couple of weeks ago - and so we went to so see "Neighbors" - hilarious, over-the-top crude - and we laughed so hard that our jaws hurt when we left. I think you could probably get some tips from the characters in that film!

Marley - good to know! I love to laugh so that sounds like some good medicine right there, tee hee. Thanks so much, my dear.

You have already received such good advice! I agree that it is time to stop being nice and to stop taking it lying down. To add to what everyone is saying, I would also suggest:

• Documenting the frequency of the parties - if you can remember past infractions, write those down, too. This will give you leverage and prove that it is not just once in a blue moon. Include everything that extends past the 10pm law.
• Also document the intensity of the noise! It can be as simple as "bass making my china vibrate from all the way across the yard and through two walls" or some such. Again, you gain credence as The Reasonable Victim of Noise Abuse rather than the crotchety neighbor. If you happen to have something that measures decibels in your sound equipment, you could use that, too. Here is a table where you can estimate.
• DO use your MIL/landlord! Use your relationship to your advantage and get her to re-post rules. Her relationship to you should make her want to help you and not put you last on the list of tenants to protect.

Rae, thank you so much! You went to a lot of trouble with this considerate and helpful reply, and I really appreciate it!

That table is interesting and disturbing. I'm shocked that there is a noise level which can create fog, I had no clue.

You are a sweet and wonderful lady, thank you for caring about my problem!

Perhaps you should invite your noisy neighbor over for coffee and dessert and have a conversation about the noise and parties. Have the conversation in a non-threatening way. Maybe you can arrive at some type of compromise. It sounds like an emotional issue for both of you.
You are angry and they are defensive and the situation could easily be elevated to something worse. What I'm suggesting is that you try to diffuse it before you both reach a breaking point.

Ugh. Our neighbors also love loud parties, although most of the time they have the courtesy to keep it down after 11 or so. We're usually up until 12:30 so that seems reasonable to me. Every once in a while they have really obnoxious parties that seem to last all night and involve lots of shrieking in the back yard, though, which annoys me to no end. Thus far I've tolerated it because I really don't want to have to get out of bed and go next door to complain at 3am.

Interesting to read everyone's views. Noise is a major stressor for me and I'm a light sleeper as well. Just reading about your neighbors' parties made my hair stand up. Most of the replies here have been much more lenient than I would have been. If the ordinance says 10pm, that means at 10:01pm it should be quiet. I'd have called the neighbors five minutes after the hour, and if no result within ten minutes, I'd have called the cops.

To your neighbor, I would say that her freedom to party loudly ends where your freedom to have peace and quiet starts. That means if her music can be heard or felt inside your house, it's too loud and she needs to turn it down.

Cultural expectations notwithstanding, if I buy a house in a city with a noise ordinance, I expect that not only will I have to follow it, so will everybody else. Noisy neighbors can move to a town without a noise ordinance or take their parties to an appropriate venue.

Thanks gals! I appreciate you weighing in, and it means a lot to have your sympathy.

A funny development happened on Saturday night. These neighbors started a party around 10pm, just yelling but not really too loud once I put the earplugs in, I could sleep. Then around midnight the music started and the bass was pretty loud. We waited. At 1am I called them, no answer, left a voicemail. Then I went outside and tried to yell, they couldn't hear me. My brilliant husband got a flashlight and we shined it over the high wall. The music instantly went silent. We yelled, "please turn it down" and they said "sorry" many times. I think it was more "sorry, please don't call the cops" than true sympathy for our feelings, but I'll take it. They partied and yelled until 3am or so, but they never turned the music back up. So with earplugs and white noise machine I was able to sleep, and it felt like there was peace in the land. I know it's a small victory, almost too small to count, but it's a relief that there could be any victory. I am cautiously hopeful.