In reference to Banana Republic and J Crew Stores - YouLookFab Forum

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In reference to Banana Republic and J Crew Stores

Anonymous

There were a couple of posts recently regarding the decline in quality at Banana Republic and J Crew. It seems that Angie's experience was markedly different from that of some Forum Members (myself included).

One of the threads, LisaP wrote:

I do think though that it makes a difference in what kind of store you're in. A, B or C market store sizes.

I don't understand what this means and I think I need to. Can someone explain it to me? I should note that the vast majority of all my purchases from these two retailers has been online (if that makes a difference).

Shopping

35 replies

Latest reply was from chadya

retailgirl

Veteran

Most stores are classified like this...an A store would be one with the highest volume, (sales) , and therefore would have the most complete selection that the retailer offered. A stores are usually in big, important malls or centers. They might be flagship stores. B stores have less selection, and C stores have less than that.

kkards

Veteran

also many stores refine a stores demographics, so that urban stores often have a different assortment than suburban stores, even if the stores volumes are the same. the same is true for the sizes and colors a store will receive….

shiny

Veteran

I live in a major metro area and I find that while you can get anything online, the selection in store is different from store to store depending on where I'm shopping. I don't think this is my imagination, though I've often wondered!

For example, the Harvard Square AT seems to carry the styles that would appeal best to a slim college-aged figure. I was in there a month or so back and it was nothing but peplum tops, even though at that time AT was carrying more than just peplum tops. They also seem to keep in stock a greater variety of suiting round the year -- probably because college students may get a job interview and need a suit. On the plus side, it seems to be easier to find size 0's and 2's there if you can wear them. Whereas I find the AT in Chestnut Hill or on Newbury to have the best selection, with Natick next in line, and Cambridgeside Galleria third. Then you have Watertown which is an outlet instead, with a totally different selection of items that looks more like... last year's AT.

The Chestnut Hill BR is (or used to be) a test store. It was one of the first nationally to test petites, so I used to be able to try on items first, and more than a few times, I'd never be able to find these online (which I assume meant they didn't test well). Or the item would be rolled out with a slightly different cut or fabric or design detail.

It's true of Nordstrom's as well. When I was in Chicago for business last year, I hit Nordie's over lunch and was amazed at how dramatically different their selection was, compared to Nordie's in Natick MA. Natick Nordie's is very high end. Chicago Nordie's... I could have been in a (better organized, better lit) Macy's. Very very different selection.

kkards

Veteran

shiny….nordstroms is one of the best retailers at "localizing" their stores, as they give a lot of decision making on assortment to the stores…
and no, you are not imagining that chain stores tailor both assortment (i.e. offerings) as well as sizes by location.

Anonymous

So the designation does not speak to quality of goods. If Banana Republic or J Crew are selling poor quality merchandise, that same poor quality translates across all three market size stores?

Then how can Angie be finding high quality merchandise when she shops these stores when I am finding garbage? Is she shopping well above my price point? Or is it possible that the pieces she purchased never even made it to my stores? I can't say if I saw them in my stores when I was shopping late last year.

Or did she just get lucky with a handful of items and she is basing her posts on a small number of items? A small population size and, therefore, not statistically valid?

I am missing something here. I may be just too tired to grasp the intricacies of retail right now too.

Anonymous

Elizabeth P gave the Sloan Fit Pants from Banana Republic a huge thumbs up. If I can find them in long I'll order them online and see how they work for me. I am always hopeful.

Meredith

Veteran

I think part of the issue is you are ordering online and can't judge fabric and fit on the spot. I've had great luck at AT and BR (no Jcrew around here), but I don't necessarily want everything in the stores. Sometimes I try on an armload of clothes and walk out with nothing. Other times I walk out with everything. Some knits seem to be pilling as they sit on the hangers whereas others seem very promising. I think I've picked up sEveral stunning things in these stores over the last year and expect them to wear well. I suspect we are a C market, so checking back frequently to see what's changed is also helpful.

Marilyn

Veteran

I must say I've been a pretty dedicated BR shopper for several years.....partly because they carry petites and partly because I have liked their offerings. My spending is definitely down over the last year. Several reasons.....quality of fabric on some items, not my style (eg. ruffles, dropped shoulder sweaters) and lack of petites in some items....especially knitwear.
I do however keep trying as I find the occasional gem. I just got a black cotton turtleneck that is great and yesterday I tried on the new pinstriped blazer and it's wonderful. I've also had good luck with their denim.

Banana Republic

Pima Cotton Cashmere Turtleneck Sweater

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Top Pick

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Banana Republic

Pinstripe One-Button Blazer

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Top Pick

2

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Sterling, it could be simpler than that: your definition of quality and Angie's might be different!

But of course there are also other possibilities:

1, The items you needed/ wanted may not have been as high quality as the items that caught Angie's eye. While the quality of any retailer's offerings tends to be similar on the whole—there are always exceptional items within any line that simply stand out as better or worse-made than the rest of the offerings at that time, for any number of reasons. Made in a different factory, found a great fabric for the piece but poor fabrics for some other items in the line, etc.

2. The items Angie bought may indeed never have appeared at your store. Absolutely! As you read above, different stores carry different examples of the line. You can see it all on the online store. I live in a city without a BR or J. Crew, but when I go to a larger city to see the wares, I almost never see the items that caught my eye online. The real value of the trip for me is to touch some of the fabrics and to get a sense of the maker's overall sizing. I then go home and order online. In fact, I can count the times I actually found what I was looking for, in my size, in-store at BR or J. Crew on one hand! (I have better luck buying in person at Club Monaco but this is because I am a smaller size). It's true -- and when I do shop in person I shop at a big metropolitan (albeit Canadian) centre.

In addition, I think Angie is looking at "quality" more broadly, perhaps. She is thinking of value for price point and thinking not only of those who want to restock their closet with simple classics (as the original poster did) but also those who want to create a wardrobe of modern classics -- updated looks with a bit of trend thrown in. BR and J.Crew may be relatively good quality still for this purpose as compared to most other retailers.

Also, she compares the quality with designer goods (which she says have been rather poor in relative quality by and large, over the past season or so). She compares with low-end goods. She sees the items on a very wide range of clients, and sees items from other retailers on those clients, too. In fact, it is the opposite of your suggestion -- it's not that she has only seen a few pieces on a few people. She has seen far more of the lines on far more people, and can also compare to what other lines are offering at the same time. So her point of view is informed by a very wide range of information and her judgement is relative to that.

Anonymous

Very interesting.

Suz made a lot of good points. Points I should have thought of myself. So much to learn.

I can add one thing about quality. My Mother worked as a seamstress for many, many years. Her best friend designed and sewed customs for the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis. Both women instructed me over the years as to garment construction and overall quality. Perhaps having the benefit of their instruction makes me much more a finicky shopper.

Regardless I don't think shirts/sweaters should split at the seams and I have had several Banana Republic tee shirts do just that. They took the tee shirts back no questions asked. I assumed I wasn't the first to return for that reason.

I guess it doesn't make any big difference though. I haven't been overly impressed with the selection or the quality of Banana Republic these past few years.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

My grandmother was a seamstress, too, and I learned how to sew and how to spot quality construction. But -- alas -- not many modern retailers do French seams (for example). Clothes are not made (except at designer level) with that type of care.

I agree that clothes should not develop holes, fall apart at the seams, or otherwise self-destruct after a wear or two. T-shirts are notorious for this, of course. But...a few years ago I swore off Loft forever because I bought t-shirts that developed instant holes there. Last year I bought a tee from them that looks as if it is going to last 4 or 5 years (amazing for a tee). So you never know.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you didn't like the offerings. There's no point even in looking too hard at quality if you don't see them working in your wardrobe!

Also, apart from Sloan trousers, I've bought almost nothing at BR or J. Crew in the past year. Partly because I didn't need anything, and partly because the colours were off for me. Sometimes it really comes down to that -- we go in and get "turned off" by colour and don't bother exploring a whole lot further or trying on to see if that "odd" cut actually flatters us.

Anonymous

Suz -- I hadn't noticed you posting in a while. I assume you have been busy. Thank you for taking the time this morning to try to walk me through this. This teaching moment is much appreciated. I am certain others on the Forum will benefit as well.

Zoe

J Crew quality is all over the map, but I found some terrifically well made knits this winter that have already made it through several wears. Reading reviews online helps, as does looking for reviews by GigisGoneShopping and the folks at JCrewAficianada.

For BR, the Sloan fit trousers are solid workhorses, as are their standard t's, turtlenecks, and tanks. I approach everything else with cautious optimism.

I live in an area with limited retail. There's a JCrew and BR an hour away and both have only the basic season's lines. I order a lot online and am very grateful for both store's liberal return policies.

If only we had an Uniqlo, a Nordstrom, and an Ann Taylor in the state, I'd be set.

shiny

Veteran

Perhaps it helps to share what we have found (recently) that is better quality?

I just bought this field coat yesterday at the Jcrew Factory outlet. I don't see it online on their factory site, just at regular Jcrew. It seems well made and yes I got a 30% discount:

https://www.jcrew.com/womens_c...../19034.jsp

BR... I don't think I've purchased anything there recently, come to think of it. My last purchase was in the fall, a duster sweater. It is very nice, I just find it awkward to wear this winter, since it's longer than all my winter coats.

Another tip: in general, it's best to shop early and don't wait for sales. This will increase your odds of finding the better quality items, which go fast.

Now that I think of it, I am realizing that I have noticed BR quality going down in recent years. Which is a shame. When I think of all the items I've found lately that are better quality they are actually from AT, not BR.

Jules

Veteran

I think these stores and their global production are so huge that nothing is consistent. Even coming from the same factory and fabric lot, you are going to get variation from worker to worker. And consider their working conditions and pay - they are not the tailors and seamstresses of yore. Bigger picture: fabrications constantly changing, very few things are 100% *anything* any more, and the relative percentage of viscose, spandex, this and that seems to be constantly changing. So the well-wearing sweater I got last year at x store can never be found again because they've moved on to another formula that may not perform as well.
Prices are also artificially deflated, I believe, by retailers constantly trying to keep the prices attractive by cutting all different corners while simultaneously adding in details to make things appear higher quality (providing extra buttons, certain tailoring details). I haven't crunched the numbers, but I believe if you look at the price of suiting at J Crew and BR relative to what it was say 20 years ago, vs the rate of inflation in other areas, it might become clear why quality is bad - the price is literally too good to be true.

Jules

Veteran

Also consider the price of getting something made in a good fabric - A bespoke tailor to equestriennes seemingly randomly opened in my "gentrifying" area, he puts up beautiful window displays that drew in some other nice middle-class moms to inquire about pants etc , only to quickly retreat when the prices started at 4 figures. And yet he seemingly still can't afford space near his clientele (not so horsy or wealthy around here!).

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I posted in Carey's thread. I suggest getting away from the standard mall stores. I highly recommend Pendleton for quality. Plus they are a true heritage brand with many fabrics made in the US.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Even when you find a brand that gets your shape and style, I don't think you can expect to wear only them for a long time. Every big retailer is party of the complicated global supply chain, as Jules points out, and factories and fabric suppliers are constantly changing. Plus there's the margin of error in the construction process - we've all had the experience of trying on two supposedly identical pairs of pants in the store and finding that they fit differently.

Maybe some of the direct-to-consumer brands are better at this, but I've heard from others that Everlane's tshirts change season over season, so maybe not.

It's pretty rare that I can't find a thing or two of high quality in a store - even Walmart and forever 21 sell some winners occasionally. But then it has to fit your budget, fit your body, fit your current needs...

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Sterling, thank you for those kind words! I have been busy, yes, and I am currently on the road for work. But I found this an interesting thread!

Elizabeth P

Veteran

Sterling, I saw on the other thread that you may try some Sloans. You CAN get them in tall... sometimes. Prob easier in the US than here. I got the flares in tall to try - and they were super long! I kept the regular, are perfect with a 2" heel on me. The 5 pocket leggings run small, I went up a size from my usual Sloan size. Most Sloans these days seem to be ankle pants, but I do have the flares and trousers - both are full length. Good luck!

LaPed

Veteran

annagybe I used to live in Portland and have been a Pendleton lover for many years; I've had many of their jackets and blankets, and have to say that the quality of the contemporary items can't hold a candle to vintage. (Same goes for Woolrich, LL Bean, etc.) The last wool throw I ordered from them felt like cheap felt -- and it was supposed to be a gift. I ended up returning it.

I looked at their men's overcoats this year too, for my husband, and wasn't impressed. The construction quality (at least for what was available here) was comparable to J Crew's mens outerwear, but more expensive and more limited size range and all made overseas.

I love supporting heritage brands when I can, especially those with a commitment to keeping US manufacturing alive, but even these companies are very hit or miss these days. Not to say they aren't worth a look, but it's still a scavenger hunt.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

FWIW, a few more points on the subject:

1. Suz makes good points, and is a great teacher. (Thanks, Suz. Miss you!). Don't confuse what doesn't tickle your fancy with inferior quality.

2. Personally, I don't think that there is anything wrong with mainstream mall stores. I shop at them all the time - for myself and with clients. Some seasons are better than others for sure.

3. I never purchase knits like knitted jersey. The fabric isn't crisp enough for my ideal style and it's a very unstable fabric (yet wildly popular!!). All my items are woven apart from knitwear, a Gap peplum top, and one body con dress. Woven items are much higher quality at BR and JC - so that makes my experience different right away.

4. Knitwear is a gigantic gamble these days. You are not guaranteed quality at any price point. I have Vince and Marc Jacobs knitwear that pills, and Ann Taylor knitwear that does not. I have BR knitwear that pills and Gap and Theory knitwear that does not. And so the saga continues.

5. My woven blouses from BR that I bought last year have French seams and beautifully rolled edge curved hems. I haven't seen that level of quality on a designer piece for a while!

6. We also need to take responsibility for quality longevity when we launder clothing. I do not believe in the tumble drier because it ruins your clothes. I also take things to the cleaners and iron my clothes no matter how much I loathe ironing. I've found that these habits make your clothes look and fit better in the long run.

7. Brooks Brothers and Pendleton (to Anna's point), are two of the few retailers with consistent outstanding quality. But their styles are very classic, and run quite big. You can be sized out of their merchandise when you wear a size 0.

While many are bored with mall or chain stores, I seem to be bored with designer wear at the moment - for at least a year in fact. The only designer wear that has really tickled my fancy has been from J.Crew! Which makes me chuckle actually, since they are a mainstream store.

Marilyn

Veteran

Oh, YES Angie. I agree that BR's wovens are lovely. I have a few of the dress shirts and and a few "soft wash" shirts and they're just wonderful. And I have some poly blouses that I love as well. All of my blazers are from BR, JC and Talbots (need petites) and I find the quality to be great.

Gaylene

Veteran

I think it's best not to make sweeping generalizations about retail stores, even though most of these threads are musings or written in the spirit of helping others.

My experience in a store is just that--MY experience. I was relieved that Angie spoke up for both BR and J Crew because I've also found some great items there this year. BUT, I also saw Angie's picks in both stores I didn't like because the fabric, or colours, seemed off to my eye. Strictly my opinions and judgements, though, since other forum members agreed with Angie and loved those items.

Suz is right--overall, Angie probably has a broader perspective on what's worth considering because looking through shops and fitting garments on a variety of bodies is what she does for a living. I use her assessments as a starting point for my own evaluations and decisions. If she finds quality in a Zara or H&M, then I'll take a peek--or if a forum member whose aesthetic and lifestyle is similar to mine raves about an item, I might think about it. But my "best" and "worst" list is way too personal to be of any use to another forum member--unless that member is a 66 year-old, retired academic who insists on wearing boots and jeans, lives on an island in the NW, and has the same body shape, style aesthetic, and clothing needs. If that person is out there, PM me because we ought to go shopping together.

Anonymous

I don't match your self-description perfectly, Gaylene, but I want to go shopping with you anyways. We have a lot in common

Anyways, since I was the one making that original comment - I'll chime in ,and sorry for being late - I am working today at a trade show in Toronto. UGH. Anyways, yes, to every thing that has been said above, and what came to mind for me when Angie first posted and bought the Jcrew pieces (they were both from there, right?) was - I'll never see those. Even in Calgary, which is a big, modern Canadian city with lots of money, the J Crew store it their best fashion mall is horrible and little. The higher end pieces never make it there. B store ,or even a C . I just find that mall-store shopping is not working for me right now - and I'm finding that elusive consistent quality in a couple of boutiques where lines are picked and edited carefully. All I see in Winnipeg is a BR C level store, and it's horrible right now. I will admit that the current style offerings aren't appealing to me , and for that reason too, I'm looking elsewhere. At boutiques with skilled buyers, a lot of the work has already been done for you - which I really appreciate.
And regarding that ruffled BR blouse, which has now become their favourite thing apparently, it's been repeated in what seems like too many colours, hits the floor unsteamed, and the newest repeat of this style is not as nice as the initial paisley print that was the first rendition of it. God , you'd think I was a retailer. Just a personal observation that has put me off BR for now. Anyways, thanks for this thread - I could talk retail for ages.

And apparently do.

Anonymous

Well, I learned a lot today. I am guessing I am in a B or C market. I personally had not idea such a thing even existed.

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

Angie, what is the difference between knitwear and knitted jersey?

Aida

Veteran

Angie refers to sweaters as "knitwear" and the thinner knit material tees are made from as "knitted jersey". Knitwear is much more substantial.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Yes -- difference between a t-shirt and a sweater/ jumper.

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