I hate vanity sizing and have no idea my real size! - YouLookFab Forum

Category

Shopping

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

I hate vanity sizing and have no idea my real size!

Raisin

Veteran

So many stores do vanity sizing now, and it's really starting to get on my nerves. Yes it's nice to have the tag say 2 or 4 or 6 or whatever is smaller than you usually buy, but it makes it hard to shop, or get something that fits right. I have a mental block or sorts that goes like this. I am small, but certainly not the smallest person ever...so I should be able to fit into a "small" size. But at so many stores the small and extra small are swimming on me. So then I think, well I guess this item is designed to fit big because I may be small but it's not like I'm 5'1" and 95lbs.....where do those girls shop? So I buy what I *think* is labelled the right size for me and its not. My husband always says my clothes are too loose, too big, I dress like a grandmama. I say, no this is XS! But it's not!

It's really a pain with online shopping because I don't even know what to guess for size. I have clothes that are size 00,0,2, and 4 in my closet right now. And many of them are just too big! It seems like stores are cutting out many of the small sizes. I went to get a bra and the girl at La Senza said they were getting rid of the size 32 band in my bra? Why!!?? Is there no demand for that size? And there's no way I'm shopping at kids stores, the style and quality are just not there for me.

Sorry, that's my rant.

Shopping

30 replies

Latest reply was from Mo

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Well, as you know, I am ranting right along with you about bras. It is a MAJOR pain.

And you're right; sizing is very confusing. It doesn't make sense to me. It's even more confusing for women my mother's age. My mom keeps insisting she is a size 14. In fact, these days, she usually fits a 2 petite. But she used to sew her own clothes and if you look at the measurements, 14 would have been her dress pattern size. That's quite a difference!

I am not a tiny person, either. I'm certainly not large, but there are many, many women much smaller than me. Even so, I sometimes find I do better shopping the petites sections to get stuff to fit. For example, I do a lot better in Banana Republic Petites than in their regulars (for tops, sweaters, skirts and dresses) even though I am not truly petite.

Sometimes, with some brands, I'm sized out even on the petites. I can't really wear Land's End stuff at all. I do have one sweater from them but it is deliberately boxy; that is okay.

I think this is why blogs like Alterations Needed exist. http://www.alterationsneeded.com
Even though I am not officially petite, I struggle with some of the same fit issues, and find that it makes for good reading.

And I have become very good friends with a seamstress here in town. She does everything from hemming to taking in the sides of dresses, tops, skirts.

With your slender frame, I think you might need to follow the same route.

Another tip: I have found that it helps to pay attention to the brands that work for Angie. She is blessed or cursed with a similarly delicate frame and so items that fit her well may also fit your body type.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Well, I dont mind vanity sizing a little bit just to help my ego but I hate even more how some brands are cut teeny tiny small. I typically wear a size 6 or 8 these days in most things, but I tried on a pair of pants recently -- I wish I could remember the designer, but I can't -- and those suckers were tight in a 10. Really?? And then I tried on something in Ann Taylor Loft in which the 6 actually had some room. In what universe does one person require everything from a size 4 to a 12?

I know that size inconsistency is just part of the first world problem of having so many fashion options, but you'd think it could be just a little more consistent.

Anonymous

Welcome to the club. I have clothes on ranges XS to size 12. I just keep on trying things on until they fit, I range between 6 - 8 for the mass retailers.

Anonymous

Haha, Janet, I have you beat. I have these pants from Rachel Zoe that are a size 12 and.... she only makes up to size 12. SMH. I am between 6-8 too.
I feel for all of you who get sized out. Crazy!

Kristin L

Veteran

Same here! I'm usually a 6-8, but I can wear a 4 in pants in some places and I'm up to a 10 in others. It annoys me more when my size ranges within the same store! At H&M, i'm normally a medium, but the last 2 tops I swapped for look like I'm swimming in them.

Raisin

Veteran

Is that what it's called? Sized out? I guess that means when they don't make a size that fits you? That's how I feel at a lot of places I used to buy clothes now. And usually I end up buying whatever is smallest, and dealing with it...and then feeling dumb later for buying such a poorly fitting item. I've had some things tailored, but if the sizing is off too much, my experience has been it just ruins the look.

I am having luck buying some more high end stuff, but I really can't afford to spend $300 on each piece in my closet. Good thing I don't need a lot of clothes.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Zap! That was it -- Rachel Zoe! Too funny. I remember now, because I was calling her some not-very-nice names in the dressing room. How could I forget? Especially since I saw her on the street when I was leaving NYC after the meetup last spring!

shiny

Veteran

I'm 5'0 and about 111 lbs (I fluctuate from 108-112) and I would say that (with exception of jeans) 95% of the clothes in my closet are petites. I am not delicate framed -- I am medium framed. I take anywhere from a 0p to a 4p, with most of my clothes a 2p.

I do venture into the non-petite stores quite frequently, always having hope that the XS might work, but it rarely does. Especially when it comes to casual clothes. Designer clothes are a whole 'nother animal: if I size up to fit my width, which could take an 8 or even a 10, the length is ridiculously off. Ironically when shopping for exercise gear, the XS and even the S can be too tight. Oddly enough I can wear a children's size 14 pretty well, but to your point, I'm just not going to do that. Some of the fast-fashion stores, where garments are made in asia for asian figures, can work for me, but I am not slender by asian standards so in those I may need to go up to a medium, which may or may not work in the length.

So I definitely feel your pain, but the reality is that human populations have become both taller and wider. There are very few grown adults these days that are only 5' tall. Even most chairs and seats these days are too high and my feet actually dangle. Sigh. Mass market clothing aim at the mass of the market. You could stop running and gain weight ... but I'm sure you don't want to do that.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

And yes, RR -- "sized out" is how I think of it. I tried on a pair of skinnies recently in a 30 and needed to go up to a 31 only to find out that they topped out at 30. Way to make a person who is technically smaller than the average American woman feel distinctly oversized.

And conversely, I have tried on some tops that I swam in, even though they're size small. I'm 5'7" and a 32DDD -- what is a 5'1" truly *small* woman supposed to do?

Jonesy

Veteran

It's always so interesting to hear about this, from the other end of the size continuum (I am tall and generally wear a size L/12 on top and size 10 on bottom). Have you investigated brands that tend to "run small" like Zara? At Zara, the L is a size 8, so I would think that a small size would work for you there, at least in some of the stuff?

My daughter is 11 years old, 5' tall, and weighs 80 pounds (she is very slim and is trying to gain weight--we celebrated when she hit 80 pounds recently!), and she can wear XS women's stuff from H&M and Urban Outfitters, to name a few. In fact, she tried on a pair of pants at H&M in a size 2, and they were too tight! I was trying to imagine an adult woman who was smaller than 5' and 80 pounds wearing them, and I just couldn't :). She sized up to a 4 and we bought the pants.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

I am right along with you. If I am wearing an xs petite jacket at 5' 4" and 120, that sure leaves a whole lot of truly tiny gals out in the cold.
I don't mind being a size 4 or 6 or whatever, just call it what it is and keep it relatively standard. I get that certain cuts make a difference and some fit models may have bigger waists or hips than I, but to have it vary more than 3 sizes there is no excuse for IMO.
And for those shopping online it's even worse. I had to return an entire suit, piece by piece, by Express to get the proper fit. Know how I finally got it right? I bought my Express items one at a time off eBay where I could ask that seller specific measurements.
In my dream world, every site would list garment measurements. And we wouldn't stop at 10 or 2 - there would be room for all of us.

ironkurtin

Veteran

RR, try European brands. Guaranteed to make you feel enormous.

unfrumped

Veteran

I am totally with you. It is a big problem now for ordering on-line--at least in the store, I can try on different sizes that are available.

I am wearing a size 2, what the heck! in a lot of brands and I know I'm not really smaller, my queries about middle-aged shrinkage notwithstanding. So there must be size drift going on. I used to generally do size 4 tops and maybe 6 bottoms.

I think some of my slightly too-big clothing fit problems came about because I would try on the 4, and since it wasn't too small, would buy it. It simply did not occur to me to think that I would wear a 2 and some of my usual haunts didn't even carry that size.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Want to echo the advice also to try European brands; they tend to work better for me. But of course they also tend to be pricier.

merwoman

Veteran

I feel your pain Rae, I'm 5'5", 115lbs and finding flattering (to my eye) clothes is a challenge.Echoing Jonesy's comments - certain retailers do "run small" - and that's where I tend to shop. Zara, Aritzia (my daughter shops here) , H&M and the like. It is tricky with ordering on line - I really hate the bother of returns, so I like to try on in person before committing to the order. And echoing Suz's comments - I really examine what Angie wears and how she styles it. How the shirt is tucked, sleeves rolled, belted etc - are all important details.

catgirl

Veteran

Yep. It's how sizing works. I ranted about it a while ago here too. Sorry!

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

Well, these isn't really a standard for sizes, so you don't have "a size". At best, marked sizes are a guideline, ditto size charts, because individual garments will fit different and there will be some amount of mfg variance. Best bet is to find brands whose sizing works for you and stick to those brands when ordering online.

Raisin

Veteran

Reading through the comments there are a lot of good points.

I don't have a lot of shopping options where I live, so I tend to wait until I hit a bigger city and do most of it once or twice a year. There are some stores that seem to run smaller, like Mexx, where they use the European sizing. I find there if its a numbered piece like 34 or whatever then I can find the right size, but if it s a letter, then even XS is often too large. Conversely my DH likes Mexx and the men's stuff is very slim, and he's always complaining, cause he's built thick.

As for petites, I've never tried them but maybe I should give it a shot. I'm not petite height though, I'm about 5' 5.5", and 117lbs so I'm not sure if the proportions would work.

We actually just got an H&M store here a week ago! I went in a couple times, but haven't tried anything on. I didn't really see much I liked at the moment, and the quality of what I picked up seemed pretty poor. Maybe they'll get something I like later on though. I remember the first time I went there 7 years ago in NY city, I thought they were awesome. I guess my tastes have changed.

I need to stop buying things because they *should* be my size though. It never leaves me happy when I'm wearing it later on. I guess if I'm "sized out" at a store I'm just going to need to find a new place to shop. It's just a waste of money to buy stuff that should fit.

Gaylene

Veteran

This topic is a perennial one on the forum. But I'm going to repeat my mantra: designers and manufacturers cut for different shapes and sizes, depending on who they see as their target market. And I'm with Angie that this is a GOOD THING. Otherwise, just whose measurements would be the "standard" that everyone else was supposed to fit: The pretty pear?, The hourglass? The rectangle? The IT? If you looked at the pictures of all the women on this forum who "wear a size 4", the differences in shapes, sizes, and proportions are enormous. Just who is the "normal" or "standard" size 4?

As for "sizing out", that is a market-driven decision at both ends of the scale. Yes, it's not fun to find clothes that you like but realize that you aren't within the range for that clothing line. But designers and manufacturers make choices, just like we do as consumers. And, with international shipping becoming more common, why would we think that another country's standard sizes would be the same as our own? You don't have to travel very much to realize that a "normal" size and shape can be dramatically different from one continent to another.

OK, now that my rant is over, I'll agree that I get as frustrated and bewildered by the variety of sizes that inhabit my closet as the next person. I feel better if I think of sizing as a meaningless label. My mother used to pick her size by looking at a garment and then deciding if it looked like it was the right size. More and more that is the technique that I'm using in B&M stores. And, when it comes to internet shopping, unless I've bought from the company before or can talk to a someone who will measure the garment for me, I always order thinking in the back of my mind that, more than likely, I'll be looking to return the item; that way I'm pleasantly surprised when something actually fits.

ZFMD

I feel your pain. Depending on brand and cut, I may wear sizes 2, 4, 6, 8, or 10. I have a couple of overcoats in size 12! At Zara I wear a L and at LL Bean, XS. "Petite" doesn't even have a uniform meaning. At some retailers, it means a 28" inseam, and at others, 31". I am 5'4" and often have to have petite sizes altered. It must be awful for ladies who are actually petite. I like buying from Boden because they provide garment measurements as well as a size chart. Out of 15 Boden items purchased, I have only selected a wrong size twice.

Raisin

Veteran

I should probably clarify that I'm annoyed by the vanity sizing not because I want all my clothes to say the same number on the tag, but because its seems like its increasingly hard for me to find items at any stores that fit. I agree with you Gaylene that its probably a good thing that different brands make different cuts, since we all do vary. And the actual number makes no difference, it's the fit. But that's the thing, nothing does actually fit. I just feel as the size I am I should not be swimming in the smallest sizes my local stores have to offer, as I don't feel like I'm that far off the spectrum...but maybe I'm wrong.

Lyn D.

Veteran

It is the same here in Australia Rae! I was thinking about this recently too, because at 5'5" and 127lbs I have noticed that in many stores I am an XS or S. Our sizes are different to yours, but most stores carry size 8 (4 U.S.) as the smallest.
My teenaged daughters are both small, around 5' and very slim, and still can wear kids sizes, but don't necessarily want to.
We also have the problem of size variation which makes trying-on everything a necessity , and online ordering- don't get me started! Usually need to order in two sizes to try to get the right fit.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I wonder about this all the time; I have friends who are small and slim and I think by the time we're old they won't be able to find clothes that fit them in the stores! Asian brands seem to run smaller as well, in case you have access to something like Uniqlo. What about juniors sizes? I know that some styles wouldn't be appropriate, but maybe some would?

I appreciate that different brands aim for a different size range of customers, and I am selfishly glad, since I"m at the other end of the size spectrum, that I can still find some misses' clothes that fit me. So-called 'vanity sizing' doesn't bug me as much as constantly-changing sizing. However, I am probably about 20 pounds heavier than I was 10 years ago, and I am buying the same numerical sizes as I was then. Anyone can see that that means that a size 16 (or whatever) is noticeably bigger now than it was then, because the brands I am buying are generally the same (assuming they still exist). You can see this phenomenon in thrift stores and vintage clothes as well.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

RR, I am about an inch shorter than you and a couple of pounds lighter, and the petites do sometimes work for me, so it's worth a try. I can't wear petite trousers (ever) but I am short-waisted and short armed, so the tops, etc. *can* work. Not always, by any means. It depends on the maker. But if you want something from BR, you might try that.

Also, like you, I find I do much better where there is a numbered size vs. S, XS, etc.

I agree with you about H&M quality; it's lousy. But for quick fill-in items it is good to know that it can potentially work.

Also, if you get a list of manufacturers whose sizing may work okay for you then next time you are in the city you can focus your shopping attention there. Another idea might be a yearly order from Nordstrom's.

I also admit to scouring the Juniors sections sometimes. The quality often leaves a lot to be desired, but again, for stuff like layering Ts and camis, it makes sense for me.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

I got sized out a few years ago; I shop mainly at UK stores now (or stores that have UK sizing) - and I'm not the smallest size by far! It's wonderful knowing I can 'size down' if I want.

I remember when I was young, and I was a size 4 ... (max 110 lbs) which was fine; but I gradually became 2 and 0 ... and then stores stopped stocking those sizes too. Kind of annoying, really. I'm 5'7" and about 130.

BTW: ever try shopping for a 32 C? yeah.

shoppingisfun

(website)

Veteran

As someone who is actually really petite at 5' 1/2" and about 100 lbs (I used to weight like 95 until pretty recently though), my solution is to shop pretty much only at Banana Republic, Ann Taylor, and LOFT. They are simply the only places that carry my size (00P-0P), and sometimes even those are too big. It's a drag. I also wear a 32 A and my size is basically impossible to find, unless I want to wear something super padded (which I don't). I'm actually GLAD I've gained weight, as it's easier to find clothes.

Gaylene

Veteran

Well, I think I have bad news for those of you who are getting sized out because of the downward drift of US sizes.

A National Health Statistics Report by the US Department of Health and Human Services (titled "Anthropometric Reference Data for Children and Adults: United States, 2003–2006", if you want to download the PDF document) has some interesting information about the current population means.

According the the document the population means for women in the US today are as follows:
Mean height-- 64 inches or 5'4"
Mean weight-- 165 pounds
Mean BMI-- 28.4
Mean Waist Circumference-- 37"

So, I guess if a manufacturer is looking to make clothes for the mass market, those would be the measurements that would be used to determine sizing. I don't know how these particular measurements compare to the population means of 50-60 years ago, but I'd be pretty sure that these numbers are significantly higher. I would also think that the means might vary according to income level, which may be why high-end designers use a different set of measurements for their clothing lines.

But if 165 pounds and a 37" waist is the new "medium" (assuming that a medium is designed to fit the population mean), it's not hard to see how a small framed woman who weighs 110 pounds or less is going to find it difficult to buy mass market items. From a business perspective, it's not vanity sizing as much as making sure your sizing fits the population who will be shopping for your clothes.

To be honest, I had to check the stats a couple of times because I couldn't quite believe the numbers.

kkards

Veteran

like others have posted, its hard to find consistent sizing, instead, i'm trying to focus on brands that i have had success with. i also try to stay with silhouettes that work well on small frames and or that i know will not be altered by being altered.

as for buying on line, i only buy from companies with liberal return polices. i also like sites with many reviews, it helps to figure out the sizing issues. but i must say, there have been a few times that i have ordered the same item in multiple sizes.

i agree with you, lyn, and suz, bra shopping is a big pain. but i've luck out recently as the nordstroms here in town must have realized that there was a real hole in the marketplace, and they are carrying a large selection of 32's!

my personal pet peeve, socks! i wear a size 6 shoe! i really don't want a sock that fits up to a 9, i hate it when the heel of the sock either slides down as you wear it, or seems to reach my ankle. i'm always on the look out for socks that come in real sizes!

Ginkgo

Veteran

I share your pain -- I'm 5' 9" and have always worn a medium in jackets. Last year I bought two jackets (one is leather!) and realized months later that I should have tried on the small. But if I'm wearing small what are shorter, smaller people wearing?

Someone mentioned on the forum recently that they take a range of sizes, above and below their expected sizing, into the dressing room to try on, and that's what I'll do in the future.

12