Honesty is still the best policy - YouLookFab Forum

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Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Honesty is still the best policy

Martie

I’m sure several people will not appreciate what I have to say but I feel compelled to make a statement. I come to this site for reassurance when I’m not quite sure about something I have purchased or an outfit I have in mind, as I feel most women do. I don’t believe in being unnecessarily nasty to people but more often than not I have seen outfits that simply don’t work for the individuals who have posted a request for truthful criticism and yet there are numerous responses saying how fabulous they look when a simple statement of “no that’s not quite right or you should try something longer or maybe a different color” would be appropriate. Let me assure you ladies not all new fads work for everyone, less is more and a nice pair of well fitting jeans and a white shirt work for almost every occasion. Honesty is not a bad thing especially when it comes to fashion and a women’s appearance. If we can't count on each other to tell the truth how can we ever expect to receive it from men?

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36 replies

Latest reply was from Barbara

Louise

Veteran

Forum members here always tell the truth, we're not in the habit of making up things up, if we don't feel it's right we say so in a constructive manner with suggestions to change it

biscuitsmom

Veteran

I agree..I think if the members give their opinion, its honestly how they feel...

Louise

Veteran

I'm guessing Martie you have seen outfits you don't like, this could be more from an aesthetic point of view or that it's perhaps something you wouldn't wear. Angie in particular looks at all outfits based on whether it suits a persons bodyshape and whether the pieces work in the outfit

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I hope that everyone who replies to my picture threads gives me an honest opinion, that's for sure!

I hope that YLF members are not censoring themselves, although it's possible that people who disagree with the majority opinion are reluctant to rock the boat. There have been a few times when I've seen something I don't really like, but can't articulate why, and I've chosen just not to say anything - perhaps I've erred there.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

I don't usually comment on outfit posts (lack of time). However, in the past I used to comment often. I've never lied and told someone I thought their outfit looked great unless that's what I honestly thought. If they wanted feedback on whether a specific item worked, or how they could work it into an outfit, I would tell them.

Having said that, there are some styles and outfits that just aren't my cup of tea. I may not wear a piece of clothing in exactly the same manner as someone else on the forum. Or, a particular trend is just not for me, and it's not my favorite item on other people either. But that's a matter of personal taste and not so much whether something "works" for a person or not. Fashion, like art, can be highly subjective. What I hear you saying is that some outfits people post don't work for *you*. You don't like them, or they don't fit with what you consider stylish or appropriate or flattering. That's okay. I think you should feel free to mention that in your feedback. To conclude that opinions different from yours must mean people on the forum are outright lying to eachother...well...that's bold.

Tanya

Veteran

I am with Louise,Biscuitsmom and Ana here. I am fairly certain most of us here try to say what we really mean, and if we dislike something than we try to say it in a tactful manner. A lot of the things are subjective and and very often half of the people here would say they like something while the other half say exactly the opposite.

We also try to distinguish between whether something really flatters the person posting it as opposed to it being something we would personally never wear. I do not wear harem pants or earthy colors, but I can still think that Lousie looks fab in her harem pants and Jean in her warm colors.

Louise

Veteran

If I don't like something but can't offer a constructive way to change it then I usually don't say anything however we are a fairly big community that we share ideas and someone else will have a solution

Martie

I'm simply saying that the look was not flattering on the individual that was asking for the opinion and yet they were told it was.

Kristen

(website)

Veteran

Martie, I understand what you are saying; there are times over the last couple of years that I have been on the forum where an outfit gets all kind of praise that I don't really think it deserves. I've come to attribute it to a couple of possible reasons:

1. Sometimes it is simply a style that I don't like and can't appreciate. Try as I might, after two years, I still don't particularly love the tunic-and-leggings look, for example. But other people love it, so they cheer it on! And rightly so.

2. Sometimes the positive commenters are new to fashion themselves, and haven't yet acquired a discerning eye. A lot of times I will see opinions change as the thread continues after another member, usually a veteran or Angie, will give some constructive criticism to the poster. It's a way for everyone to "train their eye" so to speak.

I do think that YLF is one of the politest and most thoughtful forums out there, but I don't see much of the mindless positvity you seem to be describing. There's a lot of good constructive criticism to be had here, just be patient!

Queen Mum

Veteran

I agree with the other ladies... I think everyone here tries to be kind, supportive, tactful and honest.

BUT, I'm not going to blast someone the first time they get up nerve to post a picture. I know nothing of their history, means, lifestyle, or wardrobe options. I try to make positive comments encouraging what I see that I like. Over time, it gets easier to be a little more forward with feedback as we get a little more familiar with eachother. ALSO... I've noticed that most women work out the little kinks in their style on their own.. it's a process and we all make mistakes a long the way.

Queen Mum

Veteran

Martie-- If you feel that a look is not flattering, please chime in and say why. Often someone will do that and it's something nobody else had noticed yet.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

Martie, you should feel free to express your opinion to the individual on that thread. When I've posted in the past that I didn't like a particular outfit and why, lots of times people disagreed with me. They didn't castigate me, they simply stated that they liked the outfit and told me why. It generated interesting discussion and it's valuable to the rest of the community. You shouldn't feel censored, but you shouldn't expect everyone else to agree with you either. There is always going to be a mix of opinions. That's just the nature of the beast.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

Queenie, good points! I think people do work out a lot on their own just by taking the photos and posting them and having a really good look at their outfits. Usually they just need help getting started.

Lori

Veteran

"Let me assure you ladies not all new fads work for everyone, less is more and a nice pair of well fitting jeans and a white shirt work for almost every occasion."

I find this a bit statement condescending and fairly subjective - most of us are very well aware what fads do or do not work for us, and many would not agree jeans and a white shirt work for them for most occasions. I have been frequenting the site daily since I found it, and have seen very few instances where I thought an outfit was truly off, but I also take the next step and think maybe it is not necessarily off, but it is not my style. You will not find me commenting on harem pants or white bottoms, because neither tickle my fancy, and I wouldn't feel right commenting on something I personally do not find appealing. Also, I am not a stylist and neither are 99.9% of the women who post, but they do have personal opinions and I have found that they give those opinions with heartfelt honesty and constructive criticism where needed.

Martie

As I stated at the first of my post "I’m sure several people will not appreciate what I have to say" so it seems I was correct. I’m sorry so many of you saw it as personal attack as opposed to one person’s observation.

Tanya

Veteran

Hmm, I do not think people saw it as personal attack. It is more the fact that you say that some things are not flattering as if it were a well accepted fact, while really, it is *you* who thinks that they are not flattering and others might agree or not.

Most of the people here will start they comments with " I think" or "In my opinion" etc. It is all very subjective at the end.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

It's okay, Martie. I think it wasn't so much that we didn't appreciate what you had to say, more that it may just have been how you said it. At the very least it generated some interesting discussion.

Anonymous

Martie

Well didn't she tell me. I'm done should have kept quite.

MsMary

Veteran

Martie, I'm interested to hear what kind of responses you expected from your original post? I do agree that you seem to be posting your opinion as fact, and perhaps assuming that those who post differing opinions must therefore be ... what? Purposely being dishonest?

I do think that the people who have positive things to say are probably more likely to give feedback than those who think an outfit missed the mark entirely. I know I try to follow the old "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" rule, especially in matters of style which is not my area of expertise. So to a point I think you're right that the feedback may be skewed towards the positive.

It's not possible, I guess, to get inside people's heads to see whether they really mean what they post, but after reading this thread do you still think people are posting dishonest feedback? And is there anything anybody could say to convince you otherwise?

Rosie

Veteran

I've been MIA the past couple weeks (my apologies, will update soon, all is terrific) but I wanted to chime in briefly.

We all definitely err on the side of polite, which is what makes this a warm, congenial place where people feel comfortable. I definitely feel that people are honest in the most constructive way possible. I agree with what has been said about personal preference playing a part in feedback, and sometimes people don't respond if they are unsure how to frame their critique in a positive manner that will be helpful, not hurtful. No one here wants to make anyone feel attacked or put down. I also think that as people get to know each other a bit, people become more honest. People also get to know the taste of the wearer.

I have to catch up on my reading, but doesn't Angie's recent post http://youlookfab.com/2010/08/.....lattering/ perhaps get to the heart of this issue? It is often in the eye of the beholder. Your aims may not be the same as mine. I may not care when people's ankles look large, but it might be the thing you dislike the most!

I think (and hope) that you will find as you continue to read more that we are all pretty honest with each other, and that we DO ask for and encourage honest feedback. I think one thing to remember is that it is important to post *why* something is not flattering, because only then is the comment constructive. As stated above, often when I can't figure out what it is I don't love, I think about it for a while and may not make it back to post.

Maya

Veteran

Hmm. I have had some time to marinate on this post since I read it a few hours ago.

First of all, it seems a bit audacious to assume that we are being less than forthright simply because our opinions differ from yours. I am not sure what post you are talking about, but it doesn't really matter. What I *do* know is that fashion is largely subjective. Whatever you thought of the outfits in question is by no means a factual statement.

It actually seems to me as though you feel you are being attacked, although thus far the posts in response have been mostly respectful. I am honestly a little confused as to the motivation behind this post. Is it to give us a reality check? To call us out? If so it seems to have somewhat backfired on you and now you appear defensive.

As you can see from this post, I certainly do not mince words or hold back.

My order of operations when it comes to giving feedback are as follows:

-If I can't comment objectively on something, I will make that clear in my post or just not comment at all. There are certain things I just don't like. It does not make them wrong. It is simply not my cup of tea.

-If I do like something, I will say so and try to write at least a word or two as to why so the person understands why it works, or at least gets a boost of confidence.

-If I don't like something but can't explain why, I won't comment. It isn't helpful or constructive to the person seeking feedback to just hear "I don't like it" without any explanation as to why.

-If I do have a reason for not liking something, I will say so, even if it isn't the popular opinion. I feel it is the obligation of the community to present all sides and viewpoints and let the poster determine which side they fall on.

I feel I have been remarkably consistent and balanced with my feedback.

I also disagree heartily that a white shirt and jeans is appropriate for all or even most situations. Once again, this is a very vague statement that is subjective at best. Distinguishing opinion from fact is imperative to being a productive and helpful member in this community.

If you see something you don't like, I would encourage you to speak up. But please try to keep an open mind and do not make assumptions about the motivations and thought processes of others.

shana

Veteran

I always try to be honest in giving feedback whether or not anyone else agrees with me because that is what I expect from others. I am not looking for false flattery or an ego boost but polite, constructive criticism, feedback on fit & flattery & suggestions on how to improve etc.

I think Queenie makes an excellent point. It takes alot of guts to take a picture of yourself and post it on the internet for the whole world to see. I think we all try our best to gauge where someone might be on their style journey and temper our feedback based on that.

I agree that personal taste plays a great role in how one perceives an outfit. I am (or strive to be) modern classic - I can't help but judge every outfit I look at from that perspective. I try to lay aside my personal like/dislike of certain trends and give feedback on fit & flattery but there are definitely some looks that I just don't get. I generally don't respond at all to these. I think we've had this discussion before and this is what most people do (and not necessarily lie through their teeth!).

WIW's are a minefield though. These are outfits that people have actually stepped out the door wearing. Do they really want to hear that perhaps their outfit was not quite right? I am not sure so I try to err on the side of caution.

As in the real world, I'm sure the forum suffers from some degree of groupthink. Not that often though.

Jonesy

Veteran

I lurked for a long time on this forum before I started posting, and I have read A LOT of posts/replies! I *do* think that people offer constructive criticism--I really don't see people automatically liking everything or being dishonest, as you imply.

Two things about this forum that might not be perfectly congruent with your approach, and thus be causing you some discomfort: People are really encouraged to have fun with their clothes and to take risks, and people are genuinely kind and supportive toward each other. Re. the first thing: Maybe you are more conservative or classic in your style, so when you see others wearing trends and sporting edgier looks, it just looks off to you, and you can't possibly believe that others find these looks attractive. But lots of people--even discerning people--like to see people trying out trends and making the trends work for them. It's fun! It's creative!

Re. the second thing: Maybe all of this politeness just strikes you as "sugar coating" it, but again, this doesn't mean that people are lying or being dishonest. The tone of the comments reminds me of what I would say if I were shopping with a close friend or relative. If I didn't like something, I would be polite about it, and try to be constructive, being careful not to say anything hurtful. Perhaps, since this is an online community, people try to be even more tactful, since it's easier in real life to add warmth or shades of meaning to constructive criticism.

Just my two cents, of course!

April

Veteran

Martie -- I have found, after being here for a reasonable amount of time, that

1.) there will always be things that I don't think work but that others do, and vice versa. That's the subjectivity of fashion and aesthetics that Maya alluded to. (Frankly, if I thought my view was always correct, I wouldn't have found this site in the first place because I wouldn't have been looking for help.)

2.) if someone has truly gone astray, someone will generally point it out. Angie is remarkably good about saying, "I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't give my opinion..." and other forum members are also willing to say "that would work better if..." I've been on the receiving end of many such comments in my time here so I know that they are offered and that they have helped me see my clothing in a more critical way. (Helpfully critical rather than my-confidence-has-been-destroyed critical, which is a key distinction.)

It's possible that this won't turn out the be the right forum for you but I hope you'll at least stick around long enough to see how it works, because it really does.

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I don't think it's all milk and honey here. I once had a veteran tell me point blank that my look was too hard. I also don't get a huge amount of comments on my looks. But I'm ok with that because I feel pretty secure with my look and also realize it's definitely not for everyone.
The last time I wore a white button down shirt was for a job interview two years ago. I've since lost 40 lbs since that interview and got rid of the shirt. I never replaced it because it doesn't fit my current style or life style. My style is not classic and occasionally not figure flattering. For example I like harem pants, but they do not make my hips, thighs and rear look svelte. I think they're fun and an interesting silhouette.
Constructive criticism is good, but it should be constructive.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Martie, I for one really appreciate that you took the trouble to share your honest feelings about this. You could have just as easily clicked onto the next place in the Internet. And it has generated a thought provoking discussion.

I also understand some people might feel a bit insulted by the implication that they are being dishonest. People go to great effort (and invest a lot of time) in providing constructive feedback.

As the forum moderator here, I appreciate ALL respectful perspectives, so you certainly don’t have to hold back if something doesn’t work according to your eye.

For me the big positive thing that comes out of this thread is the extent to which it shows how people in this community are so thoughtful about the way they treat each other. This is extremely emotional terrain and it is very difficult to be constructive without hurting someone’s feelings.

The other thing that occurred to me is that maybe we should get back into using the CRS Patience suggested. Greg and I thought about building CRS feedback into the site (“opt in” of course). What do you think?

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

I have to say, I am completely offended at Martie's last sentence about men. Ugh...if that's all we dressed for can you imagine what we'd look like? Yeesh.

I don't think anything is broken with the way we critique outfits. I've almost always got good feedback on my questions.

taylor

Veteran

hmmm, I wonder if you are confusing politeness, support and sensitivity in our replies as not being as critical, or honest as we could be.?

You stated that you would come here and post a photo for reassurance...I believe that is exactly what everyone one does here...offer reassurance in a polite, sensitive and supportive way.
Honestly, there is only one fashion stylist here and that is Angie...I try to leave the critiquing to her , unless a specific question is asked, then I will chime in honestly, as I believe everyone else does.

I also agree with Jenava

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