Hmm, Maybe Dignity Is Worth Considering? - YouLookFab Forum

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Hmm, Maybe Dignity Is Worth Considering?

Gaylene

Veteran

My rant on Thistle's thread asking if I found shopping fun made me start thinking about what it would take to draw me back into the arms of mass retailers and department stores. If anyone is listening, here's my wish list:

(1) Well-maintained, CLEAN change rooms with space for a chair, a full-length CLEAN mirror, adequate lighting, a hanging bar instead of a single measly hook, and door that closes. If you need guidance, check out Talbot's or Nordstrom's--or Maison Simon in Canada.

(2) An organized layout which demonstrates pride in your stock. It's just not appealing to pull a crumpled $100 shirt off the floor or see a rumpled cascade of $200 cashmere sweaters. You and I both deserve better.

(3) SAs who care enough to help me by gently suggesting which lines might work best for my IT shape. It's nice, too, if SAs introduce themselves by name so I know the name of the person who is viewing me in my underwear. Bonus points if the SA is savvy enough to figure out I might need a different size than the one I've taken into the change room--and has it ready to hand to me when I'm unsure of the fit.

(4) CLEAN washrooms with soap and towels. I'm getting older--enough said!

(5) A separate sales section so I know where to find the new offerings and where to hunt for my bargains. Also saves unpleasant surprises at the till.

(6) Inspirational pairings and creative ideas so I can see how the current looks can be styled. Sometimes I need a little help to see the possibilities in a new colour or current trend.

(7) Streamlined checkout services so It's easy to hand over my money. It boggles my mind why any store would want to make this part of the shopping experience difficult causing me to walk away.

(8) A reasonable selection of sizes available in the stock room, but always an offer to locate a special size if it is available somewhere in the system.

(9) It's fine to strategize about appealing to a new target market and to search out a new creative designer to freshen your image, but don't forget about the real bodies who regularly come through your doors. Give us a reason to stay on as your loyal clientele. I NEED my dark wash, straight-legged denim even if you think tattered and destroyed super skinnies are the latest thing.

(10) And last, but not least, treat me, your older customer with dignity and respect. Don't assume, just because I've accumulated more years, I've lost my interest in fashion. If anything, I'm more likely to take fashion risks now than I was in my career-driven forties. And my disposable income is much better since my kids left home and my mortgage is paid. Let me help you keep those profit numbers on an upswing.

OK, so that's my message to all those retailers who are looking at dismal returns. Anything you would add?

Shopping

29 replies

Latest reply was from Beth Ann

Janet

(website)

Veteran

That all sounds marvelous to me. Well said!

tulle

Veteran

I hear you, Gaylene (especially the plea for dignity!) but I think I would be happy to have just three things: lighting, more lighting, and better lighting! When will retailers learn that dim, dreary, underlit displays and dressing rooms make shoppers feel sad, and harsh, buzzing fluorescents make them want to scream?

El Cee

Veteran

Amen to all of that, Gaylene!!!

carter

All that and air conditioning! The dressing rooms are so hot, please tell me how on earth I can be talked into buying a sweater!

Thistle

Veteran

Yes, yes, and yes!

Granted I am still in my career and kid years, but I was shocked when I couldn't find a pair of jeans in my size that wasn't distressed! I can't wear that to work! Nor can I wear skinnies.

I can't even imagine a store like this.

Elizabeth P

Veteran

Here, here!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I can absolutely do without #3. No thank you!

#2, #9 and #10 are what it's all about. PRODUCT STRATEGY IS KEY. The rest is a bonus, and nice to have - but not essential to improve sales in my opinion.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I am with Angie about the salespeople, although I find American salespeople have a little more sense than the local equivalent. Salespeople have said good morning to my back. If I am not making eye contact please don't speak to me!
Introverted and independent rallying cry aside, I am all for the shopping experience being more inclusive and less flashy.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I am in full agreement about the lights. I have occasionally asked if I can take an item OUTSIDE so I can see it properly!!! The lighting in many change rooms renders the appearance of many colours almost as indeterminate as it is in the online photos!

I recently tried on the North Face puffer at Sporting Life in Toronto in the bright pink colour. I walked away without purchasing it because I could not figure out if it suited me, and the sales person was the worst combination of hovering and clueless. She stood over me as if she thought I was going to steal the thing (in the change room area, mind you...) but did not open a change room for me to go into and did not respond when I said I found the lighting dim.

As you can probably tell, I'm with Angie and Shevia in shuddering a bit about #3. I like sales people to keep their distance. But experiences like the one above have a lot to do with that, I expect.

rachylou

Veteran

All those and a place to sit, like they used to have.

!!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Suz, I will high five you here and for what you said on Thistle's thread. And good point about the lighting in stores - it can be AWFUL. But so can the light in the homes of my clients, unfortunately. I'm often getting them to stand outside so that I can see colours accurately.

Jaime, don't you have eyes at the back of your head? *smiling*

Gaylene

Veteran

OK, we've added
(11) Good lighting--AND WELL POSITIONED so I don't feel like I'm in an interrogation room. Those intense, poorly focused, halogen beams can make me afraid to look into the mirror, and buzzing fluorescents belong in a warehouse, not a department store. Also proper temperature control because dripping or freezing is not stylish. And don't forget that chair!

A word about those SAs. "Savvy" is key. That means being attuned to both verbal and nonverbal cues. If my body language is sending out "back off" signals, then politely retreat and leave me alone. On the other hand, if I ask for help, don't ignore me. Hovering is not good, but neither is neglect.

"Savvy" also means knowing your stock and reading your client. Angie does not need your help navigating the fashion realm, but her knowledge and talent have been honed from years and years of immersion in the fashion world. Some of us may be less proficient in navigating the fashion scene, so a "savvy" SA adjusts to the client.

My ideal SA was a young girl in Paris' Bon Marche. She was knowledgeable about international sizes, brands, designers, and cuts. She was tactful, helpful, and pleasant. She taught me how to tie a scarf and adjust the sleeves so my outfit came to life. She even suggested I have lunch at a small nearby bistro so I could think about my pieces before I committed to buying them. She was a gem. Clone her!

Aziraphale

Veteran

I'm for all of your points, Gaylene -- even #3, within reason. I find it suffocating if the SA keeps bringing stuff to the change room, with a chirpy "Why don't you try this? And this? Or THIS?". But I do appreciate it when, while I'm standing before the mirror deliberating over option A, she considers my size and my (apparent) taste and suggests options B and C, which are similar to A but are more likely to fit. An SA who knows the products, and how they fit real women, is a valuable asset in the change room.

I also appreciate tact. Yesterday I wanted to smack one of the SAs in Eileen Fisher. I was in there trying on a waterfall cardigan in the extra small petite size, the smallest size they offer. It was still too voluminous. An SA (not the one who had been helping me) walked by, said, That looks too big, and I agreed but explained that it was the smallest size possible. She said "Yes, well", shrugged, and ROLLED HER EYES. As if it was my fault that I'm small.

Wtf.

Carla

Veteran

Totally in agreement, Gaylene. Right down to appreciating a savvy SA!

Style Fan

Veteran

Great points Gaylene. I appreciate #3 if the SA really understands what looks good on me and is not trying to make a sale. I can usually tell and please go away if it is the later.
There are a few smaller boutiques that I love. Joelle's in Burlington has great SAs. They know me by name. Is that a good thing? They have always been helpful with sizes.
Another request from Mr. SF. A place for him to sit. And bonus points if they bring him a drink. He is one of my fashion consultants and has a great eye but hates shopping if there isn't a place to sit. Joelle's has a couch and brings him water. A place I went to in Montreal let Sophie come in and brought Mr. SF a glass of wine.

viva

Veteran

Some of these wish list items also depend on a store having ideal customers, Gaylene. From an insider's point of view, I can only use the local JCrew outlet as a point of reference, because I worked there part time in 2011 when my business was going through a very low period.

When customers paw through clothing in the store, knock things to the floor and don't pick them up, leave piles of things in different places around the store, leave all their unwanted items on the floor of the dressing room without rehanging or folding, and debate SAs about store policy they have no authority over, etc., it's very hard to keep up with the look of a store or to focus an SA's energy to providing excellent service nonstop.

I do agree that store management could do things to provide a better setting in many cases, but customers also have a role to play here.

Anonymous

Super thread, Gaylene, and I'm another one nodding along at your point about SAs, in fact, apart from well-organised, well-presented stock (your points 2 and 5), the SA is my most important deciding factor. I always need an expert opinion, it's one of the reasons I shop small boutiques.

I also agree with Style Fan: Give my shopping companion a wi-fi enabled place to sit (the first thing he looks for is what he terms the "lost husbands' couch"). Not only is he my fashion consultant, he's provided wise opinions to hundreds of other shoppers. SF, we're heading to Montreal in a couple of weeks, and he wants to know the name of that shop

And Aziraphale, I'm with you on tact. If anyone working with me utters the words, "you're such a tiny thing", my new rule is to pack up and leave. It is never okay to comment on anyone's size, and calling me a 'thing' makes me feel like a mark, not a customer.

JayS

Veteran

I'll add a pie-in-the-sky wish list item: true to size mirrors. I hate taking things back that looked great in store, but when I got home, my non-skinny mirror said no. Anthropologie I'm looking at you.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Aziriphale, that makes me boil. I've also had experiences like that from time to time. There is size discrimination at the lower ends as well. No one should be made to feel ridiculous for being her size and shape and if a manufacturer offers petite sizes it is not unreasonable or foolish for a petite sized woman to come into the store and try some on!! It is not as if you walked into Long Tall Sally and expected the clothes to fit.

It sounds as if those who see shopping as an experience or as entertainment take greater pleasure in luxurious accoutrements such as chairs, drinks, etc. I can see that. It makes sense.

Ordinarily I'm efficient and brisk on theses trips vs. relaxed. I have a limited time and I want to use it for the hunt!! Not waste it by chatting with strangers, even knowledgeable ones. And I don't bring anyone with me, so am not worried about accommodating them with chairs, etc.

Still, I have to admit that I enjoyed it when, at La Canadienne's flagship store, they offered espresso and chocolate while I was deliberating. And it may have influenced me to buy two pairs of boots rather than one!! That's pretty savvy marketing.

It must be a matter of personality and preferences, though. Style Fan, you're a great comparison for me, because like me you live at some distance from good shopping so have to cram a lot into a short time when you visit a bigger, more fashion conscious metropolitan area. Yet we have opposite shopping styles! You love the boutiques and personal attention; while on the whole, I prefer the anonymous spots like department stores.

I do like boutiques and similar for jewellery and other accessories (which I guess includes shoes!)

I think Angie (and the forum) have become my savvy SA's in my years of reading YLF. Interesting to ponder -- would I feel differently without this amazing resource? I'm sure I would.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Nice thread! You'll find a lot of these qualities in the Dutch Bijenkorf department store chain. My experience with the staff there has been mixed, but the lady who fitted me with a bra the other week was wonderful.

I've found the best SA's in independent boutiques, where they tend to be real fashion mavens: knowledgeable on the stock, objective about what suits you and always up for a chat about fashion.

To be fair, I'm not the easiest customer. I can be very critical of the product and I don't like a hard sell on something that isn't working. I'm also prone to asking difficult questions about brands I'm not familiar with.

ETA: Interesting what Suz and SF say about shopping styles. I'm close to many good independent shops so I'm more likely to hit the ones I know and love because I happened to be passing. I often enjoy getting to know the staff, because I can tell what sort of business I'm buying from, even if it's a chain store.

Gail

Veteran

I am total agreement with #!. Our Macy's changing rooms are poorly lit, have a stained stool in each one, stained ceiling tiles form leaks and to top it all off earlier this summer I was there and I could smell urine. I thought perhaps I was mistaken but the following day I was there with my daughter and she said the same thing ! UGH . The latches on the doors are mostly broken and the hooks hang by a thread.
Unfortunately apart from JC Penney and Boscov Macys is the only game within 50 miles , sigh.
Regarding the SA- one has to search to even find one to make payment! Works well as they don't interfere with my choices lol.

LaPed

Veteran

Well, this is all very affirming for me -- no wonder I've not set foot in many department stores! Granted, I'm a millennial, so I have no recollection of "the good old days" of retail.

Jules

Veteran

I expect less than nothing from SAs in mall stores and am pleasantly surprised when I get more. It's just another dumbed-down casual job with high turnover, etc. I get much better service at boutiques where the owner is in house frequently. I also pay more for the items they stock and put up with worse return policies. An independent business person cannot afford to offer what the GAP does. It's a trade-off.
I totally agree about dressing rooms. A while back I went into Rodier,
a French brand my mother admired when I was young, and which I consider a higher-end mall store. The dressing rooms were small, poorly curtained and did not have a mirror! It totally put me off the idea I might shop there now that I'm "all grown up" and ready to move beyond fast fashion. The dressing rooms at Joe Fresh Loblaws are better. I'm not interested in stepping outside the dressing room and being subject to the SA's gaze and comments just to see if something is even a possibility.

Style Fan

Veteran

Aliona the place we went to in Montreal was in Outremont. It was on Av Laurier O. There are several higher end shops there. I think it was the Sarah Pacini store that was very welcoming.
I found the stores in Montreal to be very welcoming of shopping companions. Even doggies. French influence.

Ooh is that silk

#2, #8 and #9 are important for me - I usually go shopping with something in mind so anything that makes browsing smoother is a winner. I can't bear rummaging and the TKMaxx approach, where something will catch your eye but then odds are it's not your size, fills me with dread.

This speaks more to my own insecurities, but I would be perfectly happy in a shop without sales assistants entirely. Staff it with robots, computerise it entirely, I like anonymity when shopping. There's nothing more intimidating - especially in a shop with a higher price point or smaller dress size average - than being pounced on, followed around and assessed in the changing room. Ugh!

Courtney

Member

All so true. I find myself ordering clothes online more often these days, even from brands that have storefronts in my area. The changing room situation is usually less than ideal. I am Macy's "rich" after getting married in the spring and returning many a teapot and blender. While I'd love to spend some of that Macy's credit on pants and blouses for work I cannot get past the dressing rooms! Dingy, terrible lighting, and pins all over the floor. Dangerous and disgusting! Not to mention the heaps of unwanted clothing people discard all over the place. (Who does that?!)

Gaylene

Veteran

Thanks everyone, and so the list goes on...

(12) SAs are real people with families, pets, lives, and feelings. Treat them nicely--that goes for employers and customers. Save your tantrums and snarky comments for your stuffed teddy bear. Request instead of demand, don't expect SAs to be mind-readers, and be firm but always polite. Think Angie instead of Cruella.

(13) Customers have obligations, too. Be gentle with the merchandise. That ugly top might be another person's Highly Elusive Wardrobe Item (HEWI). If something drops to the floor, pick it up; if you accidentally damage something, tell the SA. You train your children to respect others' property, so walk the talk. And, if you are a klutz at refolding, ask the SA politely to do it for you.

(14) Mr G nods approvingly at the suggestion to have a "shopping companion's area". He exhibits endless patience when his beloved pops into a store "for a quick look", but his arches take a beating. He may look suave leaning against the wall, but, in reality, he is just trying to avoid collapsing into a heap on the floor. He remembers fondly the designer area in a European department store where he was settled in a comfy chair, handed a cappuccino, and given SNACKS. He asks why I don't fly to Denmark to do more shopping.

I realize many of you are efficient and brisk shoppers like Suz, or Indiana Jones treasure seekers who unearth fabulous finds in places many of us fear to tread, but even instituting a few of these changes would go a long way to enticing me back into your stores. Mr. Drexler, are you listening?

El Cee

Veteran

My hubby is in total agreement with Mr. G on the subject of a "shopping companion's area". And I would likewise appreciate the same accommodation be made in the Sears Tool Department.

Beth Ann

Veteran

Excellent, thread, Gaylene! We can all feel the big transitions that are on the way for retail. I hope many of the changes will be improvements! I'm really struggling with the tidyness and cleanliness of stores these days -- and grocery stores are even worse (ewwww!).