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Girl angst

Nicole D

Veteran

Moms and women in general:

My 6th grade daughter texted her best friend (She facetimes this one friend and I check her iPad weekly): "I wish I was pretty like the other girls"

When we talked about it, she told me she feels like some of her friends aren't interested in hearing what she has to say anymore (she goes to a small school and has been with the same 14 girls since kindergarten). She feels like she is "the fat girl with glasses" sometimes.

As a former fat girl with glasses, my heart is breaking. She is my oldest and this is my first experience with this girl-friend-fight-clique crap. I don't want to just tell her that nerds will someday rule the earth, even though it is true, because I remember when my mom told me that I thought she was full of it.

Any advice?

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23 replies

Latest reply was from Kalli

siniestra

Schools are hard piece of work believe me ...i suffered from bully for being different ...so all i can say ...is tell her that she is an individual, unique ..and her body is changing to embrace it because what count is what it's in the heart... i thought i was an ugly duckling till i saw my friends since 1st to 7th grad now im one of the best with best facial and body features hahahha one time...they told me i was flatchested when i was 17!!! and seems to be i was a late bloomer and now im DD torn out they are the flatchested now compare to me...so give her support...tell her that there will be always be peer pressure! she doesn't need to pretend ..true friends will stick up and respect her ...and sometimes childhood friends grow and change...but that's fine there are other great person over there that will stick with her no matter what!

Krista

Veteran

I'm not a parent, but I am a high school Vice-Principal and I see similar situations fairly frequently in my work. I think you are doing the right things already - checking in with her regularly and talking with her about what is going on. My honest opinion is that if you keep that relationship open and as honest as possible then you cannot go wrong. You're right that teens see advice such as "nerds will rule the earth" as surface but using it once in a while is a great reminder to her that she will eventually grow up and move on (even though she can't picture it now). Also, her peer group does seem fairly small - are there other opportunities for her to do things with a totally different peer group, maybe a team or new activity on the weekends? If she never gets away from the politics of her current group, she may feel that all groups are like that, when they aren't.

Some good books I would recommend that discuss the politics of girls is "Queen Bees and Wannabes" by Rosalind Wiseman, "Odd Girl Out" by Rachel Simmons and "Girls on the Edge" by Leonard Sax. You might find some good suggestions in those as well.

I hope things work out. Being a teenage girl is so hard these days.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Oh, Nicole -- big hugs to you AND your daughter. My daughter (just turned 13) is also going through a bit of a rough time socially with her girlfriends, and it is hard.

The only thing I have found to do so far is to share some of my own experiences with her. I guess it is the equivalent of letting her know that nerds will rule the earth, so not a lot of help. But at times she seems to gain some comfort from the idea that she is not the only one.

Finding good books to read with heroines who have dealt with similar experiences can also be helpful. And my daughter seems to channel some of it through her own creativity.

Is your daughter interested in fashion at all? (Mine is not, but I can see how developing one's own style could be a real confidence-booster!)

Lyn D.

Veteran

It is so hard when they put themselves down and take on board these appearance-based put-downs!
I try to emphasise with my daughters that, even if they are not interested in fashion etc. making the most of themselves is great for improving their body image and self confidence.
Complimenting them directly or within earshot about the things they do well, and avoiding negativity based on body-shape and 'prettiness' is hard but important too.
You are obviously a caring Mum and a great example for your daughter(s).

Aziraphale

Veteran

Nicole, I am so sorry. I HATE this sort of thing. Girls can be so catty and cruel. My own daughter, who is only nine, just had a friend "break up" with her last week. The former friend (I'll call her X) came up with a her new friend, and while both were giggling, prompted the new friend to tell my daughter "X doesn't want to be friends with you anymore". WTF? They're NINE! (Thank god my daughter reacted indignantly rather than tearfully -- but I wonder how it will be if this sort of thing happens when she's a teenager?).

You know, I went through this myself. In grade seven, the coolest girl in school decided she didn't like me, and her dislike lasted for precisely one lonely school year during which I had no real friends. I remember it well. And you're right; as a mother, your pep talks might have a limited effect. But you can still do them. She'll know you're there for her, and she needs that, even though she may not be consciously aware of it.

Why not borrow from Dan Savage and tell her "it gets better"? Sure, his speeches are aimed at disenfranchised gay youth, but they ring true for bullying, too. (Social exclusion is definitely a form of bullying). It does get better. Sometimes sooner rather than later. Girls usually get their s*** sorted out by about age sixteen (sometimes fifteen), so she might have a frustrating year or so, but she will find her way. (FWIW, I think it's often harder being a gay teen than a "fat girl with glasses". Glasses get replaced with contacts, and a full figure is very attractive, if the person inhabiting it has confidence -- something which comes with time and experience. Or, kids outgrow their puppy fat, and the problem is solved a different way. But if you're gay, and the community you live in is intolerant of that, it's a long, hard road).

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

I'm a girl and I never really outgrew that phase where all the other girls made fun of me. I don't really have any close friends who are girls, although I am starting to have a few in the last year.

I think during those years it would have been nice to be able to do something with girls that maybe liked the same things I liked? Is your daughter involved in any extra curriculars outside of school? I always imagined that I could find some friends that way - I was involved in competitive piano, and we were cut-throat as ever, so that didn't really work! We'd be more likely to insult each other than really be friends!!

I agree with the other Lyn - it would have been nice if someone I cared about and looked up to (such as my mom) would say something nice about me once in awhile (I had a chinese tiger mom).

I think it is a phase though. Other people seem to have a lot of friends

jayne

Veteran

Oh dear, I have two daughters and been through alot with both. One gorgeous, stubborn and a loner and picked on for all of the above, and the other a bit chubby, outspoken, and sensitive and easy to rile.

The best is to give your advice, your experience, listen, check back after a week or two and keep them knowing you support them, you hear them and one in a while, if needed, you will go to bat for them.

I had to call parents for one of my girls to get teasing to stop and I had to pointedly ask the teachers to move my one daughters place in class from another tease. I felt anxiety and embarassed doing both but I remind myself that it is part of my mom job to always be the one who will back up my kids no matter what even when that means taking on uncomfortable conversations with strangers.

I see now after a few years that they have built up some confidence and are better able to shield themselves from the crap and it I think it has made them stronger. We also talk a bit about popularity and what it means. Like TV, I do believe alot of popular people tend to 'end up' cruel. Maybe it doesn't start that way, but power goes to the head you know. So we talk about whether it is really desirable to be popular.

We also talk about the concept of 'fair'. I tell my daughter there is no such thing in reality. You have to make the best of what you get and find happiness from inside and not compare to others or what others have. Kinda the old 'starving kids in Africa' message. Good luck dear!

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Lots of great words of wisdom here. I'm only a step-parent, and to grown boys at that, so my experience with this is my own adolescence. Those middle-school-ish years are THE WORST. From 5th grade to 8th grade was my rough patch. I let a lot of things suck away my self-confidence, including the girls who teased me for my appearance (very uncool in the late 70s to be pale, freckly, and with curly hair) and my total lack of cool (preferred reading to almost everything else, wasn't allowed to wear Levi's yet, etc.).

One thing that occurs to me that the others have not mentioned is that even though my mom was a huge help to me in being there to listen and talk, and giving me lots of great advice (not all of which I believed at the time), she lacked self-confidence herself. Now, in retrospect, I understand where all of that came from, but in childhood, I never understood that my main female role model was full of fears and insecurities.

Nicole, I seriously doubt you have those kinds of issues at all, but I guess I just wanted to point out that when our kids are going through something difficult, one of the best things we can do for them is to keep working on being the best, truest version of ourselves. They see how we handle setbacks and difficult emotions and take their cues from us, albeit unconsciously.

I've been working on this myself, as my stepsons are living with us temporarily right now, and the youngest has been going through some really heavy-duty difficult times. I need to resist the urge to retreat from the world when I'm feeling vulnerable, because he does it too. The more positive and engaged the rest of us are, the better it is for him.

Sorry if this doesn't apply to you at all! I just found myself sympathizing with your daughter and realized this was another perspective on it. Big hugs to her -- so many of us go through it, and it feels like the end of the world when it's happening, but yes, it does get better. Much better.

cheryle (Dianthus)

(website)

Veteran

I am a parent but of a boy so little girl experience. My partner has two daughter though. One day at dinner, the older one who was about 13 at the time made a comment that her best friend was so much prettier than she was. I was quite surprised because I saw it the opposite. I said that although I agreed that her friend was quite cute, she was very pretty and had beautiful features and hair. I told her that she had the type of beauty that would last forever and emphasized that she had lovely eyes and gorgeous hair.

I always tried to focus on the way my son treated people. If there is a way that you can have a frank talk about what is happening and why it is not right and the nicer approach to treating friends that could also help. Being beautiful/pretty is not something one has any control over but how they treat people is and this is far more important.

Good luck. Those teenage years can be so difficult for girls but also for the parents who can't make the problem go away and have to watch as it unfolds.

Irene

Veteran

This might sound silly (especially coming from a person who doesn't exercise) but maybe she should joing a sports team. If she is overweight she will lose some and gain muscle and fitness, and what's more important, friends. Because it's a team, they are kind of forced to be nice to each other and supportive, otherwise they will lose the games, so people belonging to a team bond quite easily.

I've been the ugly duckling as well -not fat, but I wore glasses and had rosacea. I was also extremely clumsy at sports and liked things no one my age liked, so I perfectly understand how she feels. I went completely friendless for three years. The truth is nothing you say as a parent will help much. You find her beautiful and love her because you are her mother, not because she is worth it (that's what she thinks) so whatever you say to her, she will assume it as a given.

Most teenagers feel this way though, it doesn't really matter whether they are thin, or fat, or ugly, or pretty. It's part of being a teenager and not fully accepting the body you are growing into (and inside), which is new, and different from what you were used to, and probably changing way too fast.

transition

I too was the clumsy girl with glasses who my brother called "gutter" for my protruding tummy, even when I was otherwise tall and thin. My mom always said that what other people said shouldn't matter to me, but I never learned how to not care. I cried EVERY day in middle school and high school about things kids said about my appearance.

My mom never told me it would change, but I wish she would have. I went to college. . . and suddenly NO ONE made fun of me any more. I was most of the way through my freshman year when I realized it.

I do agree that finding another social circle could help. My mom never allowed me to participate in extra-curricular activities at school or away from school, and I still regret that.

Echo

Veteran

I agree about a team outside the school, or a club - some other social group to have access to. Girls that age are MEAN, and they usually hate themselves (even the popular ones) as much as the object of their teasing/bullying. I have a boy just slightly older, and while boys are nearly as bad, and they are rarely the target of girls, even he sees what happens to his friends who are girls.

Whatever you do, I would try to get a handle on this now and start to build her confidence through extra-curriculars, whether it is music or sports or dance or chess club or acting or art or anything else. When girls have something to proactively DO, they are less affected by what others say and they are less likely to have the time to obsess over what he/she said.

Good luck; these are tough years for girls. I have a girl in third grade, and have this sort of thing to look forward to. They aren't so bad at that age, but they're starting.

Jules

Veteran

I actually am not getting bullying or clique stuff from the info you've shared, Nicole D. From what you have said, it's mostly her feelings she is talking about. Your DD feeling inadequate/like they aren't interested in her may indeed be a result of their bad behaviour, or a natural growing apart, but could also be poor self-esteem/low-grade depression. I speak from experience on the latter. I was just very unhappy with myself at that time. I think a lot of was hormonal and not wanting to grow up. When I read Simone deBeavoir's Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter years later I very much related to her feelings around puberty.
My best advice is to keep the lines of communication open. It's amazing you are taking her seriously and not just brushing it off, that's a great start. Sometimes all I needed was a hug and a shoulder to cry on. Tea and sympathy

rachylou

Veteran

Just thought I'd mention this is about the age when girls in general start to pull back - when their math scores start tanking relative to boys, etc. Not just become self-conscious but self-deprecating. Girls should know about it and be on the lookout to rally themselves on.

And in general, it won't kill a girl to think a few diva thoughts and list the things that make her cool. As a former Delta girl with an Alpha, popular daughter, I have to tell you that kind of self-cheering is part of the program: Know your worth.

DonnaF

Veteran

DD attended an independent (ie nonreligious) girls middle school (6th-8th grade). We were told cattiness/girl drama peaks in 7th grade, and I have to say that was our experience. But what 6th grader wants to hear that things massively get better in college? I thinks sometimes they just want a nonjudgmental ear to hear their vents an no advice. [Note: I tend to honor that in the breach. . .]

Fourteen girls is a pretty small group, and they probably have *roles* by now which are constricting to all of them. Is your daughter involved with other groups? Religious? Scouts? Sports? Chess/Science? Does LARPing (live action role playing) start this young? DD was in a community choir for 11 years, and felt that those girls knew a whole different side of her, same with her Scout friends since it wasn't school-based. The ones with perfect pitch became the gods/goddesses, and for once, physical appearance was no big deal, lol.

I agree that angst/insecurity goes with the territory, especially at this age and the surge in hormones. My DD would break down monthly like clockwork (PMS!!!) saying she had no friends, blah, blah, blah. oik.I remember DD saying that she thought the drama would go away in high school, but of course it didn't. I think it helped her when she observed at our church that even adults engage in drama.

Finally, the dimensions of friendship change as one grows older. How one defines a friend and what that means is a learning process, and at sixth grade a child is just starting to chart that new territory.

abc

Veteran

Reading your post made me have a visceral reaction. So sad and heartbreaking at the same time yet it seems like something we all have to go through as the painful part of growing up. Luckily with time, everything passes and it is SO TRUE - nerds DO rule the world!

I really have no advice, others here have it covered well, I believe. Just know that in my heart I am rooting you and your daughter on.

Nicole D

Veteran

Thanks everyone for the amazing wisdom! I am truly touched that each of you took the time to offer advice!

Siniestra, Aziraphale, lyn*, Janet, transition, Irene, thanks for sharing your own experiences. It gives me comfort to know that even women who are confident and articulate and kind (and beautiful and stylish) once had a phase of insecurity and awkwardness. It is a testament to "it gets better".

DonnaF, Echo, transition: I actually didn't think about finding another peer group through her interests and that is a great idea! She does swim (yay for getting in a bathing suit in public!), and loves to draw, sing, and make movies on her iPad. A club with people who like to do those activities would give her a creative outlet and she may find a kindred spirit. She has taken more of an interest in fashion in the last year or so, and she is known for her habit of wearing two different socks - very avant garde.

Suz, Jules, Krista: Thanks for the wise advice and suggestions about books for her and I to read. I am going straight to Amazon after this to order some of those titles!

Rachylou I like the concept of diva thoughts. I had a friend when I was about 13 who used to hum the jingle from "Tab" cola when she walked across a room, to make herself fell sassy! There must be a 2013 equivalent!

dianthus and jayne: thanks for sharing your boy experiences - very valuable to me _ i have two boys too but they are still little (7 and 9).

Janet I appreciate your comment about your mom. Very insightful and I think in general I am fairly happy and confident but we all have insecurities right? I need to keep modelling positivity and openness, so she doesn't feel bitter and isolated.

Jules, I have wondered about a low grade depression as well, since she has definitely had anxiety issues in the past, so she is at risk of a mood problem. All the more reason to promote exercise, sleep and positive thoughts. And to keep communicating and monitoring the situation.

I am so glad I reached out to this forum - I truly am moved by your wise words and openness, and I feel like I got a lot of useful advice. I know this kid is going to be OK.
Here is pic of the two of us after we had a mini makeover at the local drug store beauty boutique.

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Suz

(website)

Veteran

Oh - your picture made me cry. Thank you for sharing it. You are both so beautiful.

I loved what everyone said. Such great suggestions and thoughts.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

You are both beautiful, and you are an awesome mom!

What a wonderful thing we have in online communities like YLF for support and help -- our parents were limited in their support networks by geography, but we are lucky enough to have a community that spans the globe!

rachylou

Veteran

Oh, your daughter is a gorgeous girl! She's got fantastic, fresh-faced looks. Duchess Kate Middleton all the way.

Echo

Veteran

What a fabulous picture! You are both just beautiful!

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

Aww, what a cute mom & daughter pic

I am very jealous of her awesome nose.

Kalli

I like some of you here never grew out of the being picked on phase. Like lyn I just don't seem to fit in well, however I am fortunate to always have a few good friends.

Your daughter is beautiful and brave. We can't say that the other girls will learn because they don't. She has you and she'll make true friends who will someday be bigger than what their attitude currently is.

Things that helped me overcome all the bad stuff was having hobbies and interests that I could lean on.