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from Fashion Pain to ylf

Adelfa

Veteran

I have an idea, part theory and part observation, that many forum members do not approach fashion from a neutral or positive fashion history. There are so many things that can happen along the way to disrupt a happy relationship with our thoughts and feelings about what to wear. Here are some of the possibilities:

a. No money when growing up (seeing others look good when we can't)
b. ideological barrier #1: dressing well is frowned upon by our religion
c. ideological barrier #2: dressing well is frowned upon by a non-religious belief set--can coexist with (b)
d. body image issues
e. growing up around significant indifference to fashion

For me I think it's a through d. I always remember that MFK Fisher said she has to eat, so she might as well eat well and thoughtfully (paraphrase). I'm learning that I have to wear clothes, and so I'd rather do it well! So glad to have Angie's insights and forum support in this process.

What about you? Any old fashion related negative tapes that you're recovering from?

General

27 replies

Latest reply was from kkards

Suz

(website)

Veteran

What a great question, Adelfa! You are full of great questions.

It's an interesting theory.

My own fashion history is mixed. On the one hand, I always loved clothes, I enjoyed seeing my mother dress up (the rare times she did it) and I enjoyed shopping with her when I was very small. Also, my mother encouraged my first forays into wardrobe building as a teen, giving me a (tiny) clothing allowance so I could learn to spend wisely and taking me and my girlfriends on trips to the big city so we could shop together. I used to enjoy fashion magazines as a young woman, and I worked in fashion retail for a while while I was in university.

On the other hand, I never felt that I had developed a personal style. I was never happy with the way I looked, and rarely felt pulled together. A lot of the time I would stare at my closet and wring my hands because I could not figure out how to look like me. And I felt huge envy towards those women who seemed to come by their style genes "naturally." Why couldn't I be like that? Why was it all such a mystery to me? How come I kept getting it wrong? Another woman could go to the thrift store and come back with treasures. I could only come back with junk that made me look frumpy or clueless.

In the midst of all that, I gained weight, which made buying clothes even more difficult (and as a result, i just stopped). And then I lost weight, and desperately needed to cover up a body I barely recognized. That's when I found YLF.

Caro in Oz

Veteran

My mother was a bargain hunter - she had great fashion sense & always looked good but would never pay full price for anything. Took me a while to realise it is perfectly okay to pay full price:)

The biggest thing the forum has help me with is the notion that it is wrong to love fashion at my age. Most people I know don't & there is some pressure to let it all go - which I was never going to do - but having the support here has made a world of difference.

MsMary

Veteran

Great question!

I was overweight from childhood, and my mother also had significant body issues although she was never nearly as big as I was. So even though I always loved fashion and style, I never felt like it was "for me," because my body didn't conform to the ideal. And as a large-size petite, it was ridiculously hard to find clothes that fit, much less looked nice.

When I lost 55 pounds three years ago, I had to replace every single thing in my closet, even down to the shoes. I am so grateful I stumbled upon YLF to help me through the process and learn that fashion can be fun at any size!

Adelfa

Veteran

Suz, yes--I remember a short time when my usually not fashion conscious mom was buying dresses from Lanz of Salzburg (they don't just make nighties). I was so proud of how she looked!

Caro, you remind me that we can find ourselves at any age in cultures that do not support dressing well, or even discourage it.

Adelfa

Veteran

Mary, I didn't know about that part of your journey. So glad you're having fun now!

Nicole D

Veteran

Very interesting! My mother always put her own fashion needs last, a very beautiful and practical lady who did a lot of sewing and sought bargains whenever she could. Throw in a few body image issues and I think I am overcompensating in a big way for feeling like I was going to be awkwardly dressed for life. But also got more interested in fashion when I was a young teen, and that is when I appreciated my mom's ingenuity in looking god for less. SO I think I have a few negative influences but mostly positive ones.

Adelfa

Veteran

Nicole, I love this: "Throw in a few body image issues and I think I am overcompensating in a big way for feeling like I was going to be awkwardly dressed for life." Yes! Totally!

Sveta

(website)

Veteran

I think for me is d - body image issues. Even though money was sparse in my family my mom made her own and our clothing. She worked as a school teacher and was the best dressed teacher in her school.
However I was too tall and felt very awkward and unattractive as a teen and even as a young woman and had 0 confidence in myself so I did not have any fashion sense at all. I relied on my mom in everything style wise and when I moved overseas away from her at the age of 30 I think I just gave up. The fact that I gain weight after the move played a role in this as well.
I had a breakthrough after I lost weight and got closer to my natural state in at 35. I bought one of Trinny and Susanna's books in Costco as a Christmas gift for my mom but ended up keeping it for myself. I became more interested in my appearance and how I dressed and in fashion in general. However I was still locked in the body image trap which limited my style very much...until I found YLF and the rest is history now. I think I can compare my state with a bird which was caged for the most of her life and suddenly was let out!
Now I am finally confident in myself enough to find my own style!

Day Vies

Veteran

I like this post. I can completely identify with A and D.
For a year or so while I was growing up (about age 11) I was very aware that there wasn't as much money available for clothes. I had an older brother so the idea of his hand-me-downs were out. This lack of money coincided with the realization that there was this important concept called "cool" followed by corollaries such as "name-brand" and "generic". With an acute lack of money you have correctly guessed that as an 11 year old I was not cool because I wore lots of "generic" clothes and shoes.
Before this time period you could have put me in anything (my mother still chose what I wore everyday at this point) because I was blissfully unaware of how my clothes and shoes could communicate "status". However enter the mean girls from 6th grade who were more than happy to tell me exactly what was wrong with every outfit my mother chose for me and my hair too (just in case I did not know that my hair was also particularly NOT cute). This eventually lead to a condition I developed in college and my 20's that I call "self-esteem-in-a-bag" (purchasing designer clothes and shoes not because they look good on you but because of the boost of self-esteem these items give you because you wear them).
I eventually broke this habit after I majored in art history and began to really look at clothes I bought (details, craftsmanship, colors, cut, shape etc.) and realized that a designer label does not equal quality construction. I also SLOWLY realized that a lot of people use designer labels as short-hand for taste/style because they just wanted to fit in and be "cool". I could write a lot more on this topic but I want to read what you ladies have to say about this.

rachylou

Veteran

Well now, that's an interesting thing. My mother grew up in clothes that she was supposed to grow into and being forced to endure perms and giant bows on her head. Her mom was very fashionable... so the bows and perms at least were fashionable, my mom just hated them. And she looks pretty natty to me in all her photos as a teenager. But anyways, my mom felt she suffered fashionwise and was adamant we have nice clothes when we were small children. The weird thing is, I suffered from my mom's fashion choices for me too. She put me in pants (I was a girly girl), culottes (which were totally out on the playground), and then when I was middleschool age also let me go out in baggy clothes. She should have taken me to get bras when the time came IMO, but I had to get a job to get money for things like that and take my clueless self. I don't think my mother believes in adolescence. Only babies and adults.

My dad had a big interest in fashion because he was kind of a sloaney snob. His mother liked Gucci and Ferragamo, and he felt I should somehow be in this stuff as well and "look to Paris". He bought me my first Vogue. Which was all fine, actually, I enjoyed it, but also not very me. I looked like a fusty old lady half the time when I was 16.

The other thing was, I have a cousin very close to me in age. On my mother's side. I think my mother and her father had a mini war going on. My mother's a subersive preppy. He took preppy to a whole new level, with no sense of irony. Anyways we'd be dressed in the same clothes from the same places (even had the same desk), but it was imperative I somehow look more sophisticated. Well, I got that from both my parents. They weren't just preppy, they were worldly.

Anyways, not exactly negative, but a little stressful.

Adelfa

Veteran

Day Vies, it can really be painful not to have the clothes to measure up! I experienced this all while growing up and then I went to an elite university and it was worse! I saw coats and sweaters and boots and nighties like I'd never seen before, and everyone seemed to have them but me! I like your term of "self-esteem in a bag."

Sveta, isn't it odd that those considered to be the most beautiful women in the world are very tall, while the average tall girl often experiences significant struggles in accepting her body? So glad you've flown free!

Adelfa

Veteran

Rachylou, your story is almost funny! SO different from my background! It sounds like you have let go of the stress, kept the enjoyment, and zeroed in on what's *you*! Hooray!

hedgiehog

Veteran

So interesting to hear other women's encounterss on the road to looking fab. In my case, I am from a third world country and fashions were not readily available to us. My mum had most of our clothes made and we wore uniforms to school so we didn't have many options.

When I moved to America, I was sorely out of style and that continued for the first few years. When I was old enough to know better, I was never able to get it quite right. I was envious of the women who were able to just throw something together that looked like it required effort but really didn't. I meandered through several styles and trends until I realised that I prefer classic looks.

I'm short and chunky as well, so some of the things that appeal to me and the things that look good on other women just don't seem to fit my body. In an attempt to work my closet and put together outfits that reflect my personality, I stumbled on YLF.

Day Vies

Veteran

Yeah, it is painful when you're trying to measure up to people's expectations who don't like you. I had to realize that my friends liked me no matter what I wore and the people who were "kind" enough to point out what was wrong with my outfits would never like me. I had to realize that to stop caring what they thought -- then I became a raging GDI. Now I've found a happy medium.

It's odd how girls generally are taught to be people pleasers. The horrible down-side to the people-pleasing is that not only do you want to please your friends -- you also want to please people who will never like you -- a recipe for unhappiness.

Adelfa

Veteran

Hedgie, how interesting. I lived in a 3rd world country till I was 7 (less than you I'm guessing but enough to put mark on me in many ways). It's so fun to get to the point where a main style goal is to reflect one's personality!

Day Vies, I'm sure many people figure this out sooner, but I am learning in my 50s that sometimes it's time to stop people pleasing! As you say! I can't wait till I learn it even better because I think that will bring so much peace.

Thistle

Veteran

Several of these are definitely in my background.

my family was poor growing up, and I was the oldest, so no hand me downs. We got most of my clothes in my youth from garage sales. It was never about style, but did the clothes fit and how much life was left in them. Of course, not looking cool, combined with being good at school, meant I was never going to be one of the cool kids. Combine that with weight struggles once I started "growing up" and I really struggled to the point I developed an eating disorder to at least be thin. I eventually overcame it, but now I border on plus size and am far from the physical ideal of beauty.

my parents were both too worried about money to care about fashion. Even now, my mom doesn't care. She came over for dinner tonight in sweatpants and a tee shirt. She is a wonderful person, but she just doesn't care about clothes as long as she is comfortable.

so, I really had no role model to look put together growing up. Hard work and some luck have put me in a very different position than she was, and I need to look professional for work. It took a while for me to accept buying clothes brand new at places other than Wal Mart and Target. I still have a hard time paying full price, but I have done it a few times since joining YLF.

Adelfa

Veteran

Oh Thistle, I am so glad you are in recovery from your eating disorder! That must have been tough. Now you are having lots of fun and experimenting with your look. I am so glad.

Gaylene

Veteran

This is a fascinating thread, Adelfa. Thanks for starting it!

I started reading Angie's blog and participating in the forum when I realized that my wardrobe and my husband's were almost identical. Parkas, fleece, jeans, T-shirts, hoodies, cabled sweaters, athletic sneakers, Blundstone boots--you get the picture. Even my work wardrobe started resembling his--trouser-style pants, leather jackets, suit jackets, and button-down shirts. The only difference was I wore 3" heels on my oxfords.

It was such an odd feeling because I had always been into fashion as a teenager and young adult. My grandmother was a talented dressmaker in Europe before the family came to Canada and she passed her talent on to my mother. I'm still stunned at how fashionable my mother was when I see pictures of her during the 40s and 50s. She made all of her own clothing, many from her own designs. Both my sister and I could rip out pictures from magazines, turn them over to her, and, in a few days, be wearing outfits that were the envy of our peers. Even in her sixties and seventies, my mother could turn heads when she got dressed to go out.

Marrying an man who loved to ski, hike, camp, and bike, and having two sons who followed in their father's footsteps, had a drastic impact on my wardrobe. Since I'd always been quite athletic, it seemed quite natural to do all of these activities as a family. Buying gear, in our family, was quite normal so spending serious cash on a technical ski outfit was always met with a chorus of approval; on the other hand, if I came home with a silk dress and heels, my husband and boys would try to compliment me but, in actuality, just were bewildered by why I'd want to do something like that.

My road to YLF came via a daughter-in-law with an avid interest in fashion and a significant weight loss. When I had to replace my old wardrobe, I didn't want a replica of what I had tossed, but my fashion skills were definitely rusty. With the help of my daughter-in-law, Angie, and the forum, I gradually grew more confident and more adventurous about what I wanted to wear. I have a strong practical streak when it comes to work wear and I'll always have a love for good technical gear, but, for the first time in years, I'm also having fun with fashion. But, best of all, my side of the closet no longer resembles my husband's side.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

I can't say any of these apply to me. I came here after a specific search for 'fashion over 40' and being appalled at what many sites thought I should be wearing. Angie and YLF was one of the only places I found that made sense of one's particular fashion needs, and no blanket assumptions. Other sites would have me in coral capris with matching necklaces and sleeveless button fronts - NOT me ever, even 40 years from now lol.
I do have a bargain hunter mentality I try to fight against, but it's not because I simply don't have the money. I don't know why it is really! I was not raised by my mother, and my stepmom was a tomboy through and through and only wore a dress to her wedding and my older brother's, so any fashion inklings I had were all on my own. Neither modeling another nor rebelling against what was 'expected' of me. No one cared either way. but my dad told me to stop tossing clothes in the wash after 2 hour's wear when I was about 8 and changing 3 times a day - HA! Also, I have been between 2 sizes for the last 20, 25 years, so weight wasn't ever an issue.

Basically, seeing fashion broken down into proportions, and capsules, and all the things I never gave a second thought to, were ground breaking to me. I had always just shopped by what caught my eye, looked cute on, and was affordable. Period.

celia

Veteran

This is such an interesting topic. I had never thought about fashion from this perspective .
for me it was a mix of all of the above and more. I was always on the chubby side and with a wide bone structure, which are fatal things if you don't know how to dress for your body shape because you end up looking even bigger than you are. In a country where usually women are tiny was difficult while growing up.
My mother loves fashion but while I was growing up was still chasing her own wardrobe demons so she didn't have the time to pass wisdom. My father , on the other hand , was more than happy to give advice to both of us but he tended to think in very classical and even masculine terms and we( my mother and I) always got the subliminal message that we were not thin enough to show our bodies .
I guess it also didn't help the fact that I am a bit of a dreamer and outfits would work much better in my head than in real life and I was happy going around with some strange stuff.
I found YLF one day when bored with my very boring work started surfing the net for 'what to wear....' .Although I had always loved fashion and putting outfits ( or ensembles ) together because it is a creative work and that is what my mind was born to do, I began to realize that there were rules, easy formulas on how to dress and seeing so many people of different sizes and shapes looking so glamorous ( here and in other blogs) made me realize that I could also achieve a modicum of fashionable persona.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

This is so interesting to read. I came to YLF a couple of years after my twin daughters were born when my husband remarked that I am still dressing like a kid in sweatshirts. I had pretty much lost any fashion sense I once had during the condensed years of going from 0-3 kids in less than 3 years. Once I had some time to myself I started going to thrift stores, something I hadn't done since college. Soon I had an overwhelming amount of ridiculous (but interesting) clothes. I needed to learn to discern. As I often do, I went to the internet to solve my problem and came upon YLF - this was very early before there was a forum and before we even got to see Angie. It took me a few more years to really figure out what Angie was saying and to join the forum and now I feel so grateful for the amazing education I have gained.

Btw, I love the reference to MFK Fisher. My husband is a serious foodie and excellent cook and we often find parallels between our two hobbies.

dlb1960

My darling Mum bought my sister and I identical clothes until we were teenagers, albeit in different colours by then, but still the same style! We were born 13 months apart so I guess it was an easy solution for her in clothing us.
Maybe this lack of individuality sparked my interest in fashion............

I hate that feeling of being happy with an outfit when I leave home and then seeing someone wearing what I then wished I had worn!
I constantly strive to find THAT outfit that feels right ALL DAY! Sometimes I achieve this but more often than not I think maybe tomorrow I will look the way I'd like to. Is that vanity? I guess so but I think we should all aim to be the best person we can be everyday including how we dress.
I'm a new member to YLF so just learning the ropes. I'm 52 and don't want to dress 'old' nor do I want to look like 'mutton dressed as lamb' ( a great Aussie expression). Hopefully I will learn enough to let me leave the house every day in my happy,all day long,fantastic outfit!

Adelfa

Veteran

dlb, I think you will! I am 52 too. People tell me I am hip but age appropriate, yay!

jayne

Veteran

I love reading where your hangups come from, and how you are solving them! I may be the only person here that is actually more of a shop a holic rather than a fashionista. It was not so much about making myself look good but buying pretty things. I have been big all my life so I feel it has always been a struggle to put the clothes on and look good and I tend to like bling, and sparkle so I would combine things like my kids do, all the favorite pieces at once. Mom had/has no interest in fashion, except for buying shoes, she never shopped much. So no influence there. I first got pushed to care what I wore when I got divorced, and my one friend told me I was fumpy and needed to dress better. (I consider it a kick in the head I needed). So I started buying fashion magazines, bought the latest local fashion and tried it all. It is difficult to start at the age of 45 to care about dressing so I have wasted alot of money trying different things and fumbling around. YLF, plus Imogen, and the different WNTW shows have helped me alot to figure out what should look good on me, and to find a uniform that makes me happy. I find that for the first time in my life, it is not about the shopping but actually about getting clothes to look good on me. Thanks to Angie and all you forum members for the help to get this far!

RoseandJoan

Veteran

This is a great topic, thank you for asking the question.

I had no fashion hangups as a child or an adult for that matter, rather the opposite. I lived and breathed fashion from an early age as a way to escape the problems I could not comprehend ( my Mother was diagnosed with a serious mental illness when I was three). I adored paper fashion dolls, made my toys clothes out of toilet paper, progressed onto drawing outfits and then fashion magazines.

Even when I was very young I would wear my tops backwards or layer a skirt over a dress and usually received compliments from strangers.

Now as an adult fashion is still my favourite form of escapism, after a stressful day I come here to unwind, relax, chew the cud and to find inspiration. I love this place.

Jules

Veteran

Great thread Adelfa, I relate to much that's been said, and I love the MFK Fisher quote analogy - especially since I am also food-obsessed! I wonder if the pain behind many of our fashion histories, combined with a good dose of introspection, accounts for the amazing positive community here. Well that and Angie's warmth and caring setting the tone. Bringing me to a hang up I used to have: that anyone who cared about their appearance this much had to be secretly mean and shallow (and thus judging me poorly based on my clothes). But there is no Mean Girl here at ylf!

kkards

Veteran

very interesting read. like mo, i came to ylf after searching fashion over 40, and lurked here for a while before i started posting. i came because it seemed as a got older, i needed help taking items and making outfits. i always felt close, but like something was missing. in my younger day, it seemed easy, but now, i worry about looking like a i'm trying to hard, or i'm trying to hang on to my youth. i started posting because i found i really like talking about clothing/fashion/shopping and was missing the opportunity irl.