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For mums of boys and everyone who can share wisdom - boy toys

Ornella

(website)

Veteran

Another boy subject, your wise input would be very appreciated.

My son who'll turn 6 in March had recently started asking for a toy my husband and I are not very keen on (to put it mildly) - Nerf. We have always encouraged educational toys, Lego, building and doing things together, but steered away from anything that included swards, guns or anything war or fighting related. Recent war history in Europe (which we feel very strongly about) together with my son being born in England where during our life there gun and knife crimes had increased significantly, made us both very nervous about the subject of certain kind of boy toys.

However, it is impossible to shield a child from anything fighting related (if nothing else, other children bring it up), nor I think it should be done - don't get me wrong. But, we talk a lot about how to approach the subject generally. A child does not perceive certain things as an adult does, and we try to find certain balance.

We both remember our childhoods and playing good guys and bad guys with other kids, chasing other children and being "shot", but obviously now we know what it really means in real life and find it challenging to see how kids can play that...

Where is your balance? How do you approach the subject with your sons?

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28 replies

Latest reply was from lyn*

Anonymous

I fully relate to this! I feel similarly about gun type toys but I have to say my son has got a nerf and he hardly ever plays with it now. I think if you are bringing them up to be kind and thoughtfull then their true nature will always surface and they shouldn't be affected. There is always the thought of the next new toy as well and they soon latch on to something else. Obviously the decision is ultimately yours as to what to do though.
I always played goodies and baddies when I was young too. It's a tough call I know. To them its probably just another game, who knows? As a parent you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

Ornella

(website)

Veteran

Totally Diane. As I said, we try not to make big fuss over things we don't like, so he doesn't get too excited about it - because they just *know*, but this is tough one. Although, I feel like just casually buying it and letting him play, because I feel that the effect of forbidden fruit may be the biggest thing I want to avoid here.

I have talked to a family friend who has 3 boys (18, 17 and 11), The older boys never had toy guns and kept asking about them all the time, the youngest one got them the first time - because the parents decided for different approach in the meantime - he asked and it's out of his system. It's kind of what I hope for, but the though of actually giving money for something of that sort is eating me up.

I'd really love to hear more thought about the subject.

Hil

(website)

Veteran

Hi Ornella

I am pretty anti-gun myself, and I have never bought my son a gun myself, aside from some water pistol type toys and inadvertantly once, as part of a cowboy outfit he needed. I did however get rid of that as soon as I possibly could!

Having said that though, I have discovered that kids at that age will make weapons out of just about anything! I have therefore, when I have discovered my kids playing with pretend weapons, told them that I dont want them pointed at people and explained why.

It is a stage that they grow out of. Now, with an older child, the challenge is to see that the games he plays online and on his gaming consoles are not unduly violent! As they get older, they develop a more complex view of the world around them, and we can talk more about why certain behaviour is acceptable and other, t.

On the flipside, as a mom of a little girl, I have issues with her Barbies and the unhealthy body issues that playing with such toys could create. That is a whole 'nother topic!

Raisin

Veteran

Hi Ornella!

I have a son almost the same age, he will be 6 in June. He has a few nerf dart guns, and I thought long and hard about it like you too. DH and I are both police officers, so I was especially afraid of making guns seem like "toys", since we both have one, and guns are not something that most people in Canada own, unless you have hunting gear.

I have noticed, like Hil said that boys are going to make pretend guns out of anything. They really enjoy active play and good guys vs bad guys. I like to observe them when I pick him up from after school care, and yes they are making guns from lego, or just pretending with their hands.

When we did allow my son to have nerf guns he got 2, one for him one for DH and they took some old cardboard and made targets together of the bad guys, like a snake monster and so on. Now when they want to have fun with that they set them up around the house and shoot them down. We took the time to explain to him beforehand why real guns are not safe and that he can't shoot anyone with the nerf guns, because even those could hurt an eye or something. And you know what, he gets it and he respects it. He only shoots his targets and he has a ton of fun with my DH when they get into it.

I think there's a big difference between that type of play and them playing very violent games and seeing graphic deaths and fighting. MY DH asked me a while ago when he could show DS the Mortal Kombat game, and I was like are you crazy! Not for a long time, he doesn't need to see people doing "fatalities" and chopping off heads and such. But he does play games like Skylanders (which he is OBSESSED with), where they characters technically kill each other, most of them shoot, but it's cartoonish and not graphic or violent. The characters sort of just poof into dots.

Also, yes when my son got the nerf he played with it a lot more at first and sort of got it out of his system. Every few months he might pull out that box and he and DH will set up the targets and have a little fun, but he's definitely not gun crazy or anything.

Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at here is 1) boys do love and need that kind of active play. 2) they do respect the fact that some thing are dangerous and not a joke. 3) they will often find ways to play whatever it is that they enjoy.

I think the most important part is, whatever you decide to let your boys play with, if there is a lesson to be learned, share it with them first, and you'll be surprised how smart they can be about it. I suppose it depends on your child's personality too, but I find DS will respect something when we make a real point to talk to him about it.

Ornella

(website)

Veteran

Wise thoughts, thank you. I am reading and re-reading with interest and will show the tread to my husband as well.

Aziraphale

Veteran

I have a five-year-old son who is obsessed with war. Couldn't prevent it if I tried. He's always setting up all his Legos and then having "epic Star Wars battles" where every single droid and most of the men lose their arms and heads.

He is also a gentle soul who is offended by actual physical violence (pushing, hitting, kicking) and is very forthright with his friends if he sees that sort of thing happening. He seems to have built-in anti-bullying software. He is popular at school and the kids actually listen to him when he tells them to stop shoving. I've seen it. It's very interesting. So I don't think that a fascination with the tools and machinery of war is necessarily an indication that a child is attracted to REAL violence. Maybe it even prevents it, by giving his natural inclination an outlet. Who knows? I bet there's research on this. Boys seem programmed to learn to fight, in the same way kittens seem programmed to learn to hunt by pouncing on everything that moves. I think it's an adaptive feature.

I also don't believe children learn much by what we tell them. I think they learn almost exclusively by what they see us DO. So if a child grows up a household where everybody treats everybody else with respect -- both physically and emotionally -- the child will learn that. Parents can talk until they're blue in the face about guns and fighting and how that's all very bad, and maybe some of it will sink in, but really what's important is that they demonstrate gentle, respectful behaviour with each other, their children, friends and strangers.

If my son wanted a Nerf gun, I'd let him have it, with instructions that he is not to shoot friends in the face. Or shoot at the dog. He has two lightsabers, and has learned to play with them so nobody gets hurt (and it's a lot easier to hurt somebody -- or yourself -- with a toy lightsaber than a Nerf gun, believe me). It couldn't hurt to occasionally mention that real guns are dangerous, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure my son is going to instinctively "get" that, based on his past behaviour. He has clearly demonstrated that understands the relationship between real violence, pain and injury, and actively avoids engaging in it.

Anonymous

I'll let others speak to the "war toys" topic, but as mom to 2 boys myself, I would like to put in a practical word about the quality of NERF guns should you decide to buy one. The simpler, the better. Do NOT be talked into the ones that require batteries or are super huge. The more complicated NERF guns never work properly. We've had the best success with the smaller "blasters." That said, I've sworn off buying more NERF products. They just don't hold up.

MsMary

Veteran

I'm the mom of a son and I let him have Nerf guns and similar. I hate guns and violence but I never made a huge deal out of it and he seemed to get it out of his system fairly easily. (I hated the "first person shooter" video games that his dad let him have WAY more than the actual toys.) I also had him in martial arts from age 6, which was great because it taught himdiscipline and the proper use of force -- for self-defense only.

Not quite sure whether you'd consider the outcome a success or not -- he grew up to be a philosopher-warrior! I daresay he's one of the few Buddhists in the U.S. Marine Corps!

Aziraphale

Veteran

Incidentally, MaryK, I just read an interesting article in Scientific American Mind about how first person shooter games actually improve general intelligence, whereas most other games (or other challenging activities, like playing violin) do not. They have evidence to support this. Playing Tetris or practising violin will make you better at Tetris and the violin, but not at anything else, apparently. (And yes, I know I've spelled "practise" with an s, it's not an error, although my computer wants to correct me!).

Quote: "A body of recent research show that playing certain video games improves vision, attention, spatial reasoning and decision making...The games that have the most powerful neurological effects are...the violent first-person shooters".

"The most consequential conclusion of the research is that video games have a power few other activities can claim. With practice, a violinist can play a Mozart string concerto beautifully, but that will not make her better at much else. Gamers, though, do not just learn to be good at shooting. In neurological terms, action games seem to 'retune connectivity across and within different brain areas,' according to neuroscientist Daphne Bavelier of the University of Rochester and the University of Geneva. That means that gamers 'learn to learn'. The ability to apply learning to broader tasks is called transfer, and it is the holy grail of education. So far the games shown to have the most potent neurological effects are the ones parents hate the most: violent first-person shooters".

Echo

Veteran

I am a mom of two boys (and a girl!), so this has come up a LOT for us. At first I was completely against gun toys of anysort, and then I realized the restrictions that would place on toys in general. For example, it is difficult to fashion a water shooting toy without making it look like a gun, and those are fun summer toys. Additionally, even Star Wars Legos and other building sets often come with small people with "blasters". Eliminating all gun-related toys is next to impossible.

I also have to agree that I think that imagination is limited by experience. So kids will play shooting games with sticks or their fingers, but they cannot really picture the TRUE consequences of such things unless they have seen them. It is the graphic movies, video games and even prime time murder shows, IMO, that desensitize a child to violence, not a toy gun and their imagination.

As with most other things, I advocate a position of moderation. I allow toy guns (which they tend to lose interest in fairly quickly) in relation to toys where they make sense (water guns, Nerf toys, Legos, etc.), but I don't allow simple gun replicas. I don't allow much media and I absolutely don't allow graphic video games with violence and shooting. And I have had conversations with my boys about never even mentioning a gun in passing at school. The schools are SO uptight about guns (and rightly so) that even a joking comment can get a child in a lot of trouble. We've discussed what real guns do and what real guns are for, and I think they have a pretty solid separation between imaginative play and the reality of things.

Gaylene

Veteran

EXACTLY what Elizabeth said. As the mother of two grown sons, I'm convinced that, if you and your husband behave in a respectful, caring way towards each other, your family members, friends, and in public, your behavior will ultimately have more influence than any of the toys that come and go in your household.

My mantra before having children was "no child of mine will EVER own a gun" (usually delivered in a strident, positive tone, I'm afraid.) Well, it didn't quite work out that way; as Elizabeth pointed out, boys play all kinds of games, some of which can look dismayingly violent--decapitated action figures, faking death on the lawn after having been "shot", turning anything at hand into a weapon of mass destruction--BUT, like Elizabeth also mentions, that kind of action play went hand-in-hand with a gentle, caring, and protective nature.

I wouldn't read too much into your son's desire to fire Nerf weapons in addition to playing with his Lego. To be honest, I'd have been far more worried if either of my sons started hurting each other, or their friends, or their pets. In my experience, my miniature warriors grew up to be thoughtful, caring men who make dinner for their busy wives, change diapers, and read bed-time stories to their own little sons and daughters.

Aziraphale

Veteran

Thank you for the validation, Gaylene.

Echo: to respond to your comment "It is the graphic movies, video games and even prime time murder shows, IMO, that desensitize a child to violence, not a toy gun and their imagination".

I'm pretty sure that while media exposure has been shown to desensitize people to violence in the short term, it does not appear to increase violent crime in the long term. You can google it and find a number of articles that support this. For example:

http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/...../677.short

I would be willing to bet quite a lot of money that exposure to ACTUAL violence -- be it domestic violence, or living in a part of the world where terrorism is common, like Israel -- does cause real, lasting, horrifying damage to children.

Anonymous

My 12 year old son loves his Nerf gun but I almost got thrown out of the family for buying the same for my nephews, lol.

Like many others, I held off and then realized he was turning everything into a gun anyway. I personally think a few hours running with his cousins playing 'guns' is far more meaning full and learning then the 3 of them siting on the couch playing war games on their Play Station . I have rules that they can't shoot in the face or yell 'I killed you' but they love it and I think it teaches them some negotiating and relationship skills.

Ornella

(website)

Veteran

Thank you all again. What you all say resonates with me, but I'm also treading unfamiliar ground where the things I used to have such cast-in-stone opinion about are entering our lives. (Gaylene, you are talking about me "no child of mine will EVER own a gun", down to the tone of voice.) What I need is healthy perspective and balance. I'm happy I can rely to get such perspective from you.

Please add more views and experiences, I hope other parents will find the thread helpful.

Echo

Veteran

Elizabeth, you are probably right. I think most people who are healthy and come from healthy homes - like you said, where they are loved and not exposed to abusive situations - are fully able to separate fiction from daily life. Part of it for me and our family, though, is that I think kids are expected to grow up fast enough already. For my kids, I cannot see any reason to expose them to telvision or movies that lead them to ask and learn (because whatever they will ask, I will explain to them in an age-appropriate manner) about what rape, murder, body decomposition, etc. mean (there are so many police investigation and death investigation programs). Or to have them see very graphic or violent movies. I figure if those movies frighten me, then what might they do to a child? They will learn soon enough about all the violence and hate and horrible things in the world, and I don't think that they need to see those things when they are, IMO, too young to process it.

Overall, though, it is probably mostly just a difference in parenting styles. I know for a fact that my children would be disturbed by graphic violence, even in a game or movie. Other parents feel differently, and I am definitely not saying their kids wll grow up to be axe murderers! But regardless of the studies trying to justify children playing violent first-person shooter games, I just don't buy that the benefits outweigh the potential harm or upset to the child. If other parents feel differently, they are certainly welcome to allow what they wish in their own homes.

catgirl

Veteran

So I live in a total gun culture, where I am in the minority. My son has fired a BB gun in the woods while camping, and I have to admit it is really fun to shoot beer cans. Other than that, I do not let him play with toy guns, and he really has never been interested. He does ask to play video games that I don't particularly approve of, like Skylanders, and we set limits on how much he can play and when. Also, we have been really clear with him about our beliefs on violence and about gun safety, since we live in a place where just about everyone owns firearms for hunting, recreation, protection or just because they are gun lovers.

It is a hard line to draw and I have to say, some boys are just drawn to war-related play.

Aziraphale

Veteran

Echo, I hear exactly what you're saying. I was playing devil's advocate, to a degree. My own personal tolerance for media violence in our home is not especially high. I don't want my kids to grow up faster than they need to (although I do want to equip them with the tools to cope with new experiences that inevitably crop up). I tend to evaluate things (movies, games etc) on a case-by-case basis. For example, my nine-year-old daughter is desperate to watch the BBC Sherlock series, because she has heard me discussing it with her dad and a number of my friends, and it's clear we're all impressed by the show. My answer is a firm no. Besides the fact that the dialogue moves so quickly that, despite her keen intelligence, she'd miss half of it, it is also a show about murder. People get murdered, on purpose, by various psychopaths, and it's simply not appropriate for any child her age. It's not a graphic show, but still. It's the theme that's inappropriate. It would lead to all kinds of conversations that she's not ready to have. I'll evaluate her emotional maturity as we go along, but I don't anticipate that she'll be ready for crime shows until she's around fourteen.

Also, scary stuff is never worth the nightmares it can inspire. You can't always anticipate what will freak a child out. My daughter watched "Tangled" -- quite a sweet film -- when she was seven, and was terrified all out of proportion by the evil Mother Gothel's knobbly old-lady hands. She had nightmares for weeks. Other much more obvious frightening images and scenes did not bother her at all.

Also, lots of kids' movies play into a child's natural fears, and that really annoys me. Notice how, in so many children's animated films, the protagonist does something (or merely thinks he/she has done something) that results in a cascade of events in which a parent dies, or something similarly awful happens? Think The Lion King, The Little Mermaid, Finding Nemo,etc. The key is, the protagonist *thinks it is his/her fault*. This is a young child's worst nightmare, and is much more upsetting and harmful than a lot of the video game/cartoon violence he might see.

I'm not advocating we let young children watch horrifying images of death and dismemberment, of course. Common sense should prevail. There's a reason for the ratings on video games and films. I'm just saying that we tend to get disproportionately twitchy about media violence -- gun violence in particular -- we should be more twitchy about other things, like the laxity of actual gun laws.

Echo

Veteran

Elizabeth, I agree with every word (the kid's movies comments are particularly insightful), but most especially your last comment. I am assuming that blatant political discussion is frowned upon so I will not elaborate, but I absolutely agree.

ManidipaM

Veteran

I don't have a son, so I'm actually going to let first-person experience as a girl weigh in here with just an anecdote --- mutatis mutandis, I'm guessing this applies as well to boys, and for some of them with an 'even more so'!

Over many years of moving around all over the globe, I've had pretty constant lessons in discarding toys and clothes each time we had to pack the bags. I usually got plenty of input, though at under five, my parents had final say on what went and what stayed.

Of all the things I've let go over the years, there is just ONE toy I remember being cut-up about and missing right into my mid-teens --- it was a machine gun with a tripod and realistic blinking 'blaster' flashes, bought when I think I was about 4 or so? I've never quite understood what possessed my father to bring it home --- it was so VERY different from the usual Lego sets, science experiments and dolls I got. My mother hated it from the first. It had to go, of course.

What was interesting is how the displaced interest in 'gun play' panned out. I did get given a bright red plastic 'replacement' when it was clear I wasn't going to 'forget about it' several years later --- and I *wasn't* interested. It looked like 'toy', not 'technology' was my 7-year-old argument! Meanwhile, the 'good guy vs bad guy' play had graduated to pretending to be a Jedi knight --- with an oversized screwdriver for a light saber, much to parental chagrin! They tried to offer less 'technological' directions with Robin Hood and the Ramayana, and I LOVED the idea of a bow and arrow --- but the sharp sticks that made up rustic vernacular versions were proved even more unsafe than moulded plastic, and were quickly discarded before any eyes could be put out or other children turned them into canes to spank each other with. Le sigh!

I think the parents heaved a great sigh of relief when I moved on to art, embroidery and board games --- and the solitary Donkey Kong/Mario video game (it didn't include weapons of any kind).

Deborah

Veteran

Ornella, I just saw this thread. Everyone has given you such good advice. I thought I would just share my experience.

I was a "never having toy guns in the house" parent orginally until I realised that DS was going to simply 'make' weapons out of things. We have a cache of Nerf gear and he loves it. DH also has a couple of Nerf guns and teh two of them have so much fun.

The way I look at it is that it is one way to teach my son about such things. We have rules for when we play with them, for example no shooting at head level and everyone must wear protective glasses. It has opened a dialogue about guns, crime and hurting people. My son is 10.

What we are most concerned about are the video games. He loves Skylanders which we are ok with, but he is not permitted to play, or own, any game that is particularly realistic. I believe he is able to discern real life from play so Skylanders is acceptable but things like Black Ops etc are to realistic and can numb kids to the reality.

It is a tough one. I encourage you that you make sure you and your DH are always united on these matters and you make sure that you are both comfortable with the decision you make.

Debbie

Veteran

We have faced this issue with our 8 yr grandson. My husband and I have opposing views on this but have managed to come to a unified deciesion. If you have seen my WIW pictures the office I work in has heads on the walls. The office belongs to my husbands family. I was raised in a no gun household and would prefer it that way.
My grandson has a nerf gun and skylander is one of his favorite activities. I do carefully watch what video games he receives. Someone gave him Halo believe it or not. It was returned.

My husband is very big on gun safety so GS is talked to regularly about it. He is not interested in hunting yet or target practice but he does know safety rules inside and out.

Laurinda

Veteran

Wow the world has changed! When you mentioned "Nerf" I thought of Nerf foam balls, safe for playing in the house. Today when I googled Nerf it is guns, guns, guns.

Very sad.

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MsMary

Veteran

I had a nice talk with my now-26-year-old boy yesterday and mentioned this thread to him. His advice is to let the boys have their guns and not make a gigantic deal out of it.

Interestingly enough, he and his Marine Corps buddies are super into board games these days! Go figure!!

catgirl

Veteran

Just to add, I didn't realize how much Nerf gun stuff is out there either! My son is obsessed with the Nerf indoor basketball hoops. He plays for hours on the weekend.

Anonymous

As a mom of two boys I struggled with this. They did have Nerf guns, but not until they were 10 and 12. The one thing we were adamant about was no video games. We didn't a d wouldn't allow a system that played them into the house. They have both thanked us for that as I think they knew they would have become addicted to the games. I have friends now with high school aged sons who can't be separated from video games and it is a great worry.

Glory

Veteran

I have a 16 yr old son, he is the eldest of 3 children. When he was young I was very concerned about types of toys and toy guns. However as several people have mentioned, they find a way to play with them and forbiding them can make them more interesting. I talked to my son about his perceptions on this. He feels that "a little bit of most things, toys etc is a good thing". He told me he thinks that way the boys and girls can learn how to play properly with the items and will know how to play in the playground at school etc. He went on to say that making a big deal of these things is not the way to go. I did allow nerf guns and also he had several others growing up.

JAileen

Veteran

When my son was little we never ever bought him guns. So what happened? He made his own out of Legos! And he made really great shooting sounds. Now he's in his twenties and is a very gentle soul.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

I grew up with air rifles and cross bows and assorted male stuff, because my dad, I think, wanted to have a son - oops.

Whenever I played with them as a kid, my dad would always be there with me, explaining why I had to be careful with them even though they were "for play" - and then he would show me stuff that wasn't "for play" and for adults to use.

I never got interested in that stuff. I don't think it will "turn" you violent, especially in a supportive home where kids are free to ask questions and get good answers from a respected adult.