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Fashion and the Earth

Thistle

Veteran

My sister has not bought a new pair of jeans in over 5
years. She explained that there were so many jeans on this earth already, and
producing them is so awful for the planet, that she would not buy a new pair
until there were none at Goodwill. For the same reason, she has been buying a
lot of her clothes second hand. And only about 10% of the clothes we donate
even makes it to the second hand shops.

I started to think about this as I am reviewing my wardrobe and considering a hard edit post baby.
I consider myself a decent steward of the planet, but . . . well, I am most
assuredly contributing to the cast offs.

For those of you who also consider yourself good stewards,
how do you reconcile between letting go of a perfectly serviceable but outdated
item? Or buying new when the charity shops are so full of clothes they are
shipping them overseas?

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/truth.....id=2743456

Shopping

31 replies

Latest reply was from Olivegreen

Aziraphale

Veteran

I don't. I'm a hypocrite. To be honest, I think that anyone who lives is a first-world country and is in a position of relative privilege and who isn't at least a little bit of a hypocrite is probably an insufferable self-righteous martyr.

We all do what we can, within reason, to be, as you say, "good stewards" of the planet. Think about it. What other practices do you engage in that the Earth could do without? Do you drive a car? Do you use plastic items? How do you heat your home? Do you recycle everything? Do you sometimes eat fruit that is shipped from distant countries? How many paper towels do you use when you dry your hands at a public washroom?

I think we do our best, within the limits of practicality. As far as clothing goes, I wear everything I own, and I really do try not to buy more things than I can actually wear until they have holes. I have fairly slow closet turnaround. If I do stop wearing something when it still has wear left in it, I donate it to charity. I try to be responsible.

Marlene

Veteran

I have been pondering this thought as well lately as well. I have bought at least HALF of my clothing second hand this past year. Either EBay, thrift shop or consignment. As far as getting rid of stuff....First option is consignment, second option is give away* and third option is charity.

*By give away, let me explain. I belong to a neighborhood group called Buy Nothing Project. Many neighborhoods have them and they are part of Facebook (search FB to see if your neighborhood has one. Search Buy Nothing and then the name of your city). We have a Round Robin tote that circulates through the list and recipients can give or take what they want when it is their turn. Some of my favorite clothing items have come from the round robin! I feel good that most of the items I am done with are going to actual people in my community instead of a nameless charity.

I think in this day and age, we need to do what we can to lessen the strain on the Earth. And shopping purposely and thoughtfully can really help in a small way. And like the old phrase "what goes up must come down"....as stuff comes into your closet, stuff must go out. What we do with the stuff that goes out is also worth considering.

Ledonna N.

Veteran

The only thing I by new is underwear everthing comes from secondhand shops, garage and estate sales.

Sometimes I will buy new shoes. I enjoy buying secondhand and can save for my future retirement and trips. I don't think we should guilt others for what we do or don't do. We all have choices hopefully we make good ones. Once I am finished with something I give it away or donate it.

Living in America we do have 1st world problems and there is so much more that that is important to me.

I really say let me have my fun with fashion.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Aziraphale has so eloquently said what is in my head. (Thank you). Furthermore, some of us have to keep the economy going by buying new. There would be no secondhand if it weren't for people like us in the lifecycle of wardrobe items.

Carole

Veteran

I always feel like I'm doing something good if I can donate unused or out serviced items. I recycle as much as I can (I live in Portlandia:) and keep some things longer than I should. I'm a big DIYer and experiment to bring new life to things in the home...I'm just not willing to do that with my wardrobe. I want to look and FEEL good!

Daria

I'm with Aziraphale and Angie. There is so much that can be done for our planet before "dropping" new clothes. (Humongous cars in the US being my biggest pet peeve).

Echo

Veteran

While there is nothing I disagree with about your points, Thistle, I have to agree that we all do what we can and it isn't the same for everyone. And by the same token, almost everyone (and using "almost" is just a formality because I truly believe that it is EVERYONE - at least in the US) can do more. Our vehicles, lightbulbs, foods, shopping habits, leisure time - literally every single thing we use or do - could all be more earth friendly. Sometimes our voting habits alone could be more earth friendly.

Indeed, I once used one of the calculators about how big a footprint I was making in terms of carbon emissions and energy. Most Americans use the equivalent of what about 8 people in other parts of the world use, while I came in at just under 2. It isn't because I am some kind of environmental saint, but it is instead due to the rural lifestyle we lead. I am forced by time/family constraints to drive less (everything worthwhile is about 45 minutes away from here), we keep a garden and we hang clothes to dry (DH prefers the smell to dryer-dried items). And I fly less often than people like DH, who travel for business.

Could I do more? Of course, and so could every single person reading this thread. But I have cut tremendously the amount of buying I do (I have other saving goals), and it gives me more pleasure to buy new. So for the few items I currently buy, most will be new purchases and I will try to make up for that in other ways.

Astrid

Veteran

Lots of good points already... For me personally it's not so much an issue of buying new vs. secondhand, it's about excess. I think it's lovely to be the first owner of something. There's nothing bad about shopping in stores for the full price, if we're buying things we truly use.

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

I consider myself very earth sensitive and friendly as much as possible so I too am with Aziraphale on this one.

Gaylene

Veteran

It's a complex area for those of us who exist in a "Have" society. Shows like Portlandia which mock our righteous attitudes, even if we start from good intentions, do us a favour, in my opinion, because it's all too easy to end up being a hypocrite. Yes, I buy my jeans at a thrift shop and compost my table scraps, but I then jump on a jet plane with three overloaded suitcases for a little R&R in an all-inclusive resort on a tropical island.

Honestly, I get angry at the reverse snobbery that accompanies so many of these well-intentioned discussions. My feeling is that we'd accomplish more just by being thoughtful consumers who make a concerted effort to avoid excess and to take care of what we already own, Instead of rationalizing my desires, I need to think harder before I consume or toss.

shedev

Veteran

I buy both new and secondhand. In the last couple years, I've sold most of my castoffs at the consignment store I shop at. I also give clothes to a disabled girl I work with. I may have a bag to give to goodwill every few months. Secondhand shopping works really well if your style is really well represented in your city. If you didn't find a lot of it in retail, you may not find it secondhand.

I'm working on finding the closet size that will let me buy new things at the rate I wear most things out. I'm at 200 now. I feel that the number will be close to 160. I've slowly been consigning things for my 1in/1out and not replacing things I wear out. If I had 17 tops and I stained one, I'd be left with 16. If I then bought one, I'd consign one and still have 16. If that makes any sense.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

The problem is twofold and it isn't with consumers, it's overproduction of poor quality goods.

1. Overproduction: a lot of the clothing going into landfill doesn't ever make it out of the stores. Tons of clothing gets dumped every year by the retailers without having been worn. This is something I've heard from industry insiders, but it's not widely reported. H&M got caught at it a few years ago.

2. Poor quality: it's incredibly easy to go to your local mall and pick up something cheap that will last about three wears before it fails. It's harder to source nice quality things that will still be good for the next season, let alone years of wear.

There's nothing wrong with buying new stuff if it's the considered purchase of a good quality item that you know you're going to use. There's no guarantee that if you pass things on they'll get worn, but there's a better chance they'll be useful to someone else if they're well made and cared for. Somebody has to buy the new stuff that makes it into the thrift stores.

Things becoming dated is a problem though. One of the reasons I dress the way I do is so that I can look cool without being overtly trendy. I expect years of service from my wardrobe. About half of it was bought new, the rest was thrifted or made by me.

Of course you can be an ethical consumer of new clothing. I think Dame Vivienne said it best - buy less, buy better, make it last.

celia

Veteran

Aziraphale put it perfectly.

Kirstjen

Veteran

I guess you have to find accommodations in your life that you feel are valuable. I don't drive a car or buy bottled water. I live in a multi-family building. I buy organic, local produce as much as possible, but let's face it, there is not much farming in Chicago, and what is nearby typically doesn't last 12 months of the year.

I recycle as much as I can, but I also try to minimize the packaging on what I buy, and to not buy something if it's not essential, except for clothing, which I probably have more than enough of.

I don't take my clothing to Goodwill, but to a rescue mission for the homeless here in Chicago. I don't know that this is any better or worse than Goodwill, but at least it is given away, as opposed to being resold. I also wear some things until they fall apart. I seem to have a recurring problem with wearing out the right elbow on sweaters... Ugh.

I'm probably never going to be a vegetarian, and I'm always going to want European vacations.

There are other ethical considerations besides the earth. The treatment of sweatshop workers has been a big deal to me. I try to buy things (clothing & other things) made in the US, but it's not always easy or even possible. Even if you find something locally made, it can be hard to know where the parts of that thing are made. And on & on it goes.

There are trade offs to every choice we make. You have to find the balance that works for you personally, and try not to judge others or be stung by the judgments of others. Easier said than done, I know.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

I agree with pretty much everyone above. Although the majority of my clothes are thrifted, I buy new things too. And I have lots more clothes than I need any way you look at it. We are a one car family, but we get on big planes pretty often and so on. By the way, the clothes that are not put for sale at the charity shop where I work are sold to be recycled into industrial rag.

Sal

Veteran

Thanks for bringing up the topic Thistle. The clothing industry is responsible for sweatshops, pollution and waste, and we are all consumers who can have a small influence. I think the points have been covered already and it is a real challenge which I fail at all the time. I do fly on aeroplanes, and I have a bag of litter every week, and I have more in my closet than I really need.

I am trying, but I don't really know if that is good enough.

Astrid

Veteran

For anyone who's interested, there's a documentary coming out soon:
http://truecostmovie.com/

I thought the trailer looked really interesting.

rachylou

Veteran

Oh, the planet will be here long after we've gone and be just fine... only different and with a new set of renters. Just like my 'hood.

I do think it very interesting how many of us are entirely unnecessary already. Luxeries being sported by the very few... Yes, it's very interesting.

Aziraphale

Veteran

But, Rachy, we're not trying to be good stewards of the planet for the sake of the planet itself. We're trying to do it for future generations of humans (and, probably to a lesser degree for most of us, the other species that are currently on it). To put it bluntly, we're trying not to mess it up too much for our grandchildren.

kkards

Veteran

i get it, i really do...but....i grew up in the shadows of the old textile mills here in the US. yup, it tooks decades for the rivers to be cleaned, but on the other hand, the those mills lifted thousands of familys out of poverty. and the factory's that produce apparel and footwear in china helped to move that nations industrialization along, and helped to lift thousands of family's out of poverty....yes, its important to be a good steward of our environment, but its not the only thing....we should each do what works for us. for me, i try to use what i buy, eat food that was produced using less harmful methods, and give what i'm no longer using to those who can use it.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

100% with Aziraphale and kirstjen.

rachylou

Veteran

It's interesting, Az. Was discussing this with my mum last week. Mum is not a hippie, but of course she raised us in Hippieland. The alarm was sounded over 50 years ago. That's how long we've been doing the recycling-short-shower-etc. thing. It's taken 50 years to get the idea beyond the town border so to speak. Merely the idea, not the needed action. The time has passed truth be told. To regear a giant society for the next hundred years, to do what would be required - that 50 years needed to see action and it was expended without ever leaving the consciousness raising phase. And still we don't have the needed number of people informed and convinced. Long and short, we were talking about being humbled at this point: nothing will blink at our passing and that's not really so bad.

Yes, it may sound depressing and defeatist, but it's not. Humility is good for the soul; it's uplifting. And in the grand scheme, we're naught but a small irritation by the grace of God as they say.

approprio

(website)

Veteran

Amen, Rachylou. Amen.

Aziraphale

Veteran

I don't think you're being defeatist. You're probably right; it's probably already too late. And of course it's true -- no one but us will mourn our passing. Do any species (besides us; I think we do regret the loss of certain others -- especially the extinctions for which we are directly responsible) mourn the passing of other species? I doubt it.

As for us being "a small irritation by the grace of God" -- well, I don't low how literally you mean that, but it presupposes that there is a God, and I doubt that, too.

Whether or not we deserve it, no one's going to help us but us. And although it may be too late, there is always value in trying, right?

ETA and I'm rethinking my use of the word deserve. Since when did justice have any place on this planet, until we invented the concept? Do any of the species who go extinct "deserve" it? Does the universe care? Again, I doubt it. The only ones who care, for all that we keep f*cking things up, are humans. (To the best of my knowledge).

rachylou

Veteran

{but it presupposes that there is a God, and I doubt that, too.}

Oh footnote! - My mum is not particularly religious either. So that's why I put in the 'as they say.' Mum wasn't relying on there being a God for her thesis. 'God' is used here to indicate scale.

Oh also, { } 'cuz I'm typing on the phone... Otherwise I'd do italics...

In any case there is value 'for the soul' (also something of a religious concept, but not meant as such) in trying. Rather like there is value in humility. What I don't know is how much value there is in trying to reconcile the gap between our efforts and their lack of impact...

Aziraphale

Veteran

"God is used to indicate scale" -- ok, got it, that makes total sense.

I think I'd better stop replying, though, before the thread gets completely derailed! (Sorry Thistle. You began an interesting discussion!)

Anonymous

One sentence: My family and I do what we can.

Gaylene

Veteran

"In any case there is value 'for the soul' (also something of a religious concept, but not meant as such) in trying. Rather like there is value in humility. What I don't know is how much value there is in trying to reconcile the gap between our efforts and their lack of impact."

Well put, Rachylou. Humility is such a rare commodity in so many of these "save the environment" discussions. If I can't change the outcome, do I use futility as an excuse to continue on my current path--or do I accept the responsibility to continue to plod along, making an effort, even if my efforts aren't likely to matter? I can't help but think of Frankl's quote "When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves." It's that freedom to choose our attitude that makes us human, and our acceptance of that responsibility which makes us find meaning and value in our actions even if the outcome seems hopeless.

Wow, and people think we just talk about pant length on this forum!

Aziraphale

Veteran

Lol @ Gaylene: Wow, and people think we just talk about pant length on this forum! Shhh, don't tell anyone.

FWIW I absolutely agree that there is value in humility.

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