Ok I’ve looked at these and I’ll be more pedantic, after years of shopping for fabrics with my mom - the Ryan pants are a super- fine-wale corduroy. That still makes them “ read” more like no- wale, and more versatile . I’ll not debate the length too much () since pants hit differently on everyone, but note the model is 5’10” and a small size. So they fall considerably longer on me, which is an advantage. Or at least, these are what is in my store that salesperson poitntex out, but maybe it is another style? Then they had Sloan’s in similar but not exact colors have no wale whatsoever. This might help someone else in their shopping OR need to look for the right style.