I believe thin privilege works in a variety of insidious ways, and thus, all other things being held constant, everything is easier in our society when you're a culturally ideal size. As MuseumGal once pointed out, if I as a thin person wear oversized clothes, no one thinks I'm lazy or sloppy.

That being said, I often wish I was 1-2 sizes bigger, because almost everything I try on is too big, either by a little or a lot (except knits & skinny jeans & vintage). I have broad shoulders for my frame, which lets me wear boxy blouses/slightly oversized stuff fairy easily, but I can't help thinking being solidly in the 4/6/8 range (right now I'm in the 0/2 area), with the same proportions, just scaled up a bit, would make my clothes fit better. And there are quite a few brands that I'm simply sized out of, even though they make xs, because their clothing is cut larger. I've never been bigger than I am now though, so it might just be wishful thinking!

I have a bunch of jumbled-up thoughts here that I'm kind of working out now, so I hope none of this sounds too simplistic or too confused.

I think April's exactly on point that not being thin certainly doesn't make it impossible to look stylish, but it does make it involve much more work, especially when it's combined with other things that also pull you away from the "ideal." Even though I don't spend a lot of timing dwelling on it, and even though I know I'd be a better person if I didn't let myself think about it at all, I can't help envying people who are so close to the norm size- and weight- and height-wise that they can spend less energy just identifying things that work on them, period, and more finding things they really love. And, of course, I know that people who are taller or thinner than the norm can also have frustrating fit challenges, but some perverse part of me can't help thinking that, if I'm going to have as many issues as I do, I'd much rather have them as a 5'10" size 0 than a 4'10" size 8-10-ish.

For me, being very short and an hourglass and not that skinny means that I have to apply a whole bunch of filters to my clothes right from the start. Once I also rule out colors that don't work, things that don't make sense for my lifestyle, annoying or uncomfortable items, and the frumpily conservative stuff that's always disproportionately represented in the petite department, it's hard not to feel like I'm doomed to the same few basic styles forever and ever. I can find things that check all the boxes, look nice, and feel like "me" pretty easily, and I know I'm lucky there, but I feel like getting things like variety and fashion-forward-ness into there too is pretty much an impossible dream. My umpteen blazer threads have brought home to me that I don't even know what well-fitting tailored clothing looks like on me because I've never in my life owned anything like that.

I also feel a little hypocritical complaining about this because, as much as I'd love to have more options in clothes, I clearly don't feel strongly enough to give up my favorite foods and have the kind of ultra-regimented diet I'd need to be much thinner. (Although I do try to eat in moderation and get regular exercise, both for the obvious health reasons and because I know things would be even more frustrating if my size went up.) Plus, even if I were a size 2, I'd still be a really short hourglass, so it's not like my fit problems would magically go away.

Finally, I know I'm lucky that, even though I'm on the heavier side for someone of my height, I'm not large enough to be sized out of any brands. That's obviously a whole other level of obstacle, and seems like it would make things even more frustrating.

I've not yet read all your replies but, after losing weight, I've found it harder and more expensive to find clothing, especially in newer trends that have some quality and not Junior sizes. Even consignment here seems to start at at least size 8.

If the question was "if it is easier to find clothing which fit well when you are average size and height" I would say YES. However I do not equal an ease of shopping with ease of being stylish: so many average size and height women out there who should have it easy to shop and who are not even remotely stylish. On the other hand I have to agree with others that you are an incredibly stylish lady Shannon and quite an inspiration for us here!

However I also agree with Gaylene that feeling stylish when you are not your ideal size and body may be hard. I definitely have my self esteem dampened when I cannot fit into the old pair of jeans...:-)

I completely agree with Angie that being taller than average and small size is a nightmare for shopping. I am not small size so sometimes I can get away with the length in size L or if I need to size up to XL just to get that extra inch of length but more often than not everything is too short. I can only imagine somebody of my height but size 2 or 4 have shopping as a nightmare!
And I am not saying that petite shopping is easy but honestly I think shopping for tall is harder. I have never seen Tall sections in any store (with the exclusion of Long Tall Sally but I don't like their clothes quality most of the time) , most stores do not carry Tall sizes at all (including Nordstrom) and a handful of those which do have them online only. We tall gals also have it hard because alterations are not an option if something is too short - unless you make shorts out of pants or top out of a dress...

End of "tall girl rant", I think I got carried away and I just came back from the mall...:-)

I think Gaylene has hit on something here (no surprise....) -- it's a lot harder to feel stylish when you're battling extra pounds, even if you still technically fall into the regular size bracket. And obviously harder again, when you don't fall into that bracket.

But it's also more difficult, practically speaking.

I'm one of the "lucky" ones -- I'm not super difficult to fit now. True, I'm sort of on the borderline between petites and regulars; true, I'm sized out by some makers because I'm at the smaller end of the scale; true, I need alterations to jacket sleeves most of the time, and always to pants lengths since I can't wear petite pants. And true -- styles that used to work on me at my heavier weight no longer look right on me. So it's not as if I can waltz into any old store and emerge an hour later with a fantastic new outfit that fits and flatters perfectly right off the hanger.

But it was a lot harder when I weighed 35 pounds more. It wasn't a question of size. Back then, I still wore a relatively small size. The truth is, I bought so few clothes then, and most were inexpensive items sized S/M/L. I tended to buy most things in "medium." Just before I decided to lose weight I bought some jeans in a 10 from Old Navy, which is probably really more like a 12, right? So that's where I was hovering.

But the trouble wasn't finding clothes in that size range. In my experience, there are a LOT more "mediums" and size 8-12s out there on the racks than there are items in size 0 or 2. So in one sense, I actually had a lot more choice in those days!

The trouble was proportion. Sleeves were too loose as well as too long. Waists were not in the right place at the higher size I had to buy then. My weight didn't seem to be distributed where the clothes had room for it. I wasn't buying for my FRAME size. I was buying for my body fat size -- and the two didn't match.

So, I definitely think weight plays a role and makes it tougher. And that is unfair and a real pain in the patootie.

ETA: And you are a total style icon at any weight/ size, Shannon!! So never forget that.

i've read thru this tread 3 times now, trying to figure out exactly what this trend is about….is it really about being stylish or about the availability of stylish clothing? it is about how we view ourselves or how we think others view us? is it really about the grass being greener on the other side?
but i think its really about all of that. so, yes, its easier to find stylish clothing if you are slim, but does wearing stylish clothing make you a stylish women? imo, it does not. style is something that comes from not just what you are wearing, but how you are wearing it, the confidence and ease with which you carry yourself.

I gain and lose weight proportionately, so it's always the same figure problems, just bigger or smaller.

Amen, Kkdards....as Angie says...style is not a size, style is not an age...

And Shannon, you have fab style!!

Very busy at home so apologies for not getting back to this discussion until now.

I do agree that it is harder to feel stylish with some extra pounds because it messes with your head, self esteem and overall image.

But I'm actually not really meaning that. I'm talking straight logistics here. Simply because there are fewer options available (like premium jeans) and even fewer options when you're petite and plus, to me it makes it tougher. I do fall within the difficult range of 12P - 14P. I don't have unlimited brands to pick from and so at times am forced to settle for good enough because perfect doesn't exist, unless sewn for me as to Steph's point.

I also find that when you get into the larger sizes, the frump factor becomes more pronounced and as to suz's point, the proportions go askew.

But as you've mentioned, we all have fit issues at every size and height.

Amen to what Sveta wrote about finding stylish clothing for talls! Just recently, I was at New York & Company, salivating over gorgeous black silky slouchy-fit cuffed pants on a mannekin. A sales clerk came over and said, "oh, you need talls, right? You're over here and also over there." The pants on the two racks she pointed me to were such a far cry from the pair that drew me into the shop. They were non-descript colors, fabrics, and styles. I walked out of there feeling discouraged and sort of discriminated against. It can definitely be frustrating but it's not impossible.

Many very good points being made here. I definitely makes sense that it's harder to find clothes that fit if you fall outside of the "normal height/weight" range. Of course manufacturers are going to make stuff to fit the average. Making money is the bottom line. So already there's less to work with, in terms of clothing options, if you're not in that range.

I'm going to add something that I don't think anyone has mentioned. While it's certainly true that very tall thin women may not be able to find sizes to fit them, they do have one advantage. How many times, Shannon, as a short woman, have you heard you "shouldn't wear X because it will make you look shorter"? I've heard it a lot. If you're tall and thin, you can pull off flats with pants cropped at any length you like. You can wear full-body horizontal stripes. You can wear a midi skirt at a really "difficult" length, that would look frumptastic on most other women. Nothing's going to make you look like a hobbit when you're 5'10" and 120 lbs. No one ever says, "you're too tall and thin to wear that". So I think tall thin women have more silhouette options. Whether or not this makes it easier to be stylish -- I don't know. I know a lot of stylish women, and most of them aren't tall and thin -- but then, very few women are!

I aspire to dress as stylishly (and as well fitted) as Shannon. I'm certain that a lot of work has gone into it on her part, and it shows, it's beautifully cohesive.

I second what Suz says about frame. My frame and height (5'7) have been the same at 105 lbs (teen years) as the high end now around 165. The smallest clothes I've fit have been an occasional 6 back then. The range of sizes I wear have been pretty consistently 8-12 since I hit puberty. But the way they fit me, the comfort, the drape, the waist in particular, varies greatly.

I feel privileged to fall into a size range where I feel I have many options as to color and style, and where I have many options to shop frugally from sale and clearance and second hand items as well.

Although it may not have been exactly your intent, I have to say Gaylene's reaction pretty much sums up my own to the question. Yes, there are different kinds of fit challenges and surely it is easier to find some sizes than others, there are also various budget constraints that make it harder to buy certain designers, availability constraints that limits what we can try (not everyone has free shipping and returns as you know!), and so on. But ultimately being stylish is not a given even if you are the easiest size, with a huge budget and lots of buying options. You Shannon are, as others have mentioned, one of the most stylish women around and that is much more than any particular piece in a certain size, price and local!

Shannon I thought you were about a size Petite 8, you have really even proportions and it seems the only modification you need is usually in the sleeves and pants length. You just look much smaller than a 12 to me. But I'm sorry if you feel frustrated with selections, you always look so stylish to me. Hugs.

What I haven't yet seen mentioned here are the styles that larger and/or more voluptuous women cannot wear without looking... questionable. For example, there are plenty of advertisements with "normal" sized/slim women wearing lingerie. No one bats an eye. But when a larger, curvier woman is featured in a lingerie ad, there are scores of people howling about how it is inappropriate. If I had a better memory, I could link to an ad that raised this very question from not so long ago. Somehow, it is okay to show a very slim woman in her bra and panties, but if a woman actually needs the support of a bra, it is indecent to show her wearing one.

Likewise, when a curvy woman wears some styles, people say she looks too sexy, but a thinner woman or a woman with a less prominent bustline can wear the same style without anyone batting an eye. A very slim woman can wear body con styles and pencil skirts and look fashionable instead of overtly sexy.

I am not denying that there are fit issues with every size and body shape, nor am I claiming that anyone has it necessarily worse than anyone else. But I found it shocking that as my figure changed from very thin and rectangle to more filled out and hourglass, I couldn't wear the things I used to wear without appearing sexy. With my previous figure, I could hardly look sexy if I tried; body con and low cut looked fashion-forward on my slimmer body. But with a larger bust and a smaller-by-comparison waist, things looked vulgar far more easily.

This is an intersting question Shannon and one I have wanted to ask myself:) I haven't yet read the responses but I am interested in what the Aussie contingent think. I have a friend here who is 'plus sizse' and she feels that what is available for her is rather limited. She is an incredibly stylish and well dressed woman but I think she feels somewhat robbed of choice. Over the past couple of years we have seen some of our more popular chain stores start to increase the sizes avaiable in their ranges. So once they might stop at a 14 or 16 they may now go up to a 20.

I agree with our point about proportions too Shannon. I have found there can be serious difference in the fit of a size 20 dress from a "regular" store compared to a size 20 from a store that 'specialises' in larger sizes. The latter store seems to have a better understanding of the bodies they are designing for whereas the others are just making bigger versions of the dress with little thought to, say, how the body may be bigger. Does that make sense?

I hesitate to say this, because I know there have been huge steps forward in this area, but so much fashion is still made for and marketed to slim individuals. As an Aussie size 12 - 14 I have had really had to deal with the fact that 9 times out of 10 a garment looks very different to me than on the model advertising it.

A one word answer would be Yes!

Having gone from US size 18 to size 4 (US) in the last 1 & 1/2 years, there has been a sea-change in how I dress.

Partly because there is more choice like everyone says. More stores, more lines, more designs - trends filter down faster in regular than in plus sizes.

Partly because I have more confidence now - I feel more comfortable wearing dresses & skirts, shorts & skinny jeans. I don't worry about over-sized fits making me look bigger, I don't worry about wearing blazers - I used to avoid them earlier as I felt they made me look more bulky. I found it a lot harder to be stylish at size 18.

Maybe 2 years ago I'd say yes yes yes! Now it's yes and no. If you want to look fabulous in nearly every trend out there yes by all means don't ever leave the 00-6 size range. However, when I see stunning average sized and even some "fluffier" women at parties, in cafes, and in work environments I'm convinced that style is available at a variety of sizes.

I think many of the ladies here on the forum are super stylish and not all of them are "stylishly thin" I think it was Suz who introduced me to the quote that "style is the perfection of a point of view". I have a particular point of view to share. While it may not be the ideally manifested on my body, my body happens to be the canvas I have to work with and anything I add to it to perfect my point of view is a reflection of my style. No one else could pull it off in the same way.(Echo I am nodding my head and agreeing with your comments -- I remember the bruhaha over the Lane Bryant commercial featuring a curvy woman in bra and panties that was too risque for daytime tv which was eventually pulled).

So I guess I'm saying if you want endless reproductions of conventionally stylish looks, seek out anyone under a size 6 -- it's easy, like dressing a doll. The entire retail establishment caters to small sizes for this reason. If you want creativity look to women whose bodies the fashion establishment has deemed "flawed" and in need of "correction".

It's not easy to be creatively stylish at ANY size. We know that because we're on this forum. Not every look is going to be stunning on every body, but when you find your silhouette and perfect proportions MAGIC. I enjoy watching that magic happen. So I guess my response is what kind of stylish do you want -- conventional or creative?

I agree that sizing is a problem though in multiple ways. I am 5'7" and until the last few years had some difficulty finding pants that were not too short. Now the pants seem to be cut longer, which is an issue for some of my friends who find them too long. Why can't it be like men's pants with different waist sizes and lengths? I am fortnate to be a size 8, but my friends who wear larger/smaller sizes have more limited options.
That said , I do know stylish women of all sizes.

I am totally agree with you on this point, except the lack of colors in large-sized items. The pallette is always the same, maybe depending on a brand. Notwithstanding, to create a great outfit with big sizes' clothing is truly an achievement. I know it myself, that was a problem for me a few years ago. Skinny girls have the widest option of what to buy and what is looking great on them. Sorry to tell this yet it's true

I hate to say it, but yes. Absolutely yes. When I go shopping with my size 4 sister, there is no doubt who has more options and who easily fits into clothes without needing alterations. She is always putting things back on the rack not because they don't look/fit perfectly, but because she cannot buy everything. Designers design for her body type. Meanwhile, I have to try on 10 different brands of jeans to find one that works, and I still don't look as good as she does, with no effort at all. She doesn't know how good she has it!

Interesting discussion! Great points made by many already, but I do think it can be more challenging to dress a body, the further it falls from the "model ideal." And I think this about proportions, as well as size. For instance, consider the fit and flattery issues of someone with a pronounced IT or pear shape.

I'm lucky that I have stayed in the 6-8-10 range for my entire adult life, so my frame of reference for the question really comes down more to personal "feeling fab" standards than practical fit ones. I can usually find my size available and put on an outfit that one might see on a model... however, it *always* messes with my head a bit that the outfit will look dramatically different on my decidedly average size 6-8ish, 5'7" body than it does on a model. It's particularly frustrating because by every measurement my size is healthy, but compared to a model, or even some of our slimmer or more proportionate forum members, I feel "big." I realize this is a mental hangup and quite irrational, but it does contribute to the "feeling fab" quotient of stylish dressing.

That said, YLF has been hugely helpful in making me realize we ALL have fit issues! I have discovered that members who are slim and therefore seem like they could wear "anything" struggle just as much as me with fit, and often even more.

So even though I think it might seem at first glance that slimness makes it easier to be stylish, the truth is much more complex than that. There are many people here on this forum that prove that totally fab style is possible no matter what size you are!

"It's not easy to be creatively stylish at ANY size. We know that because we're on this forum. Not every look is going to be stunning on every body, but when you find your silhouette and perfect proportions MAGIC. I enjoy watching that magic happen. So I guess my response is what kind of stylish do you want -- conventional or creative?"

Somebody give DV a medal. I am personally framing that quote!!

A few people (including E and Echo) have pointed out something only tangentially related, but quite troubling, and of interest to many of us.

What I see from their comments is a reminder that society as a whole sees certain types of bodies as transparent reflections of the person, and as worthy of moral judgment.

If you're heavy, people assume you must be: unhealthy, lacking in self-control, disgusting, sloppy, etc. etc. If you're quite curvy (independent of size although these things interact), you must be: slutty, sexual, indecent, asking for it, etc. I'm sure there are other stereotypes of other body types, but these are the two that have come up.

Obviously, this is ridiculous. You can't know anything about someone's health, lifestyle, or morality based on what they're shaped like - you can only know what they're shaped like. (I'm not going to veer off into race, disability, other kinds of concerns ... but it's worth noting that there are a lot of similar issues there.)

One thing that's especially insidious is that if you're of a shape/size that means that people wrongly feel entitled to make moral judgments about you, there's a tremendous amount of pressure to dress to counteract those "automatic" judgments. (You may see, again, why I find myself drawing parallels with other topics.)

I always worry that to some extent, doing so only reinforces the stereotype. If we dress to avoid the stereotypes that "All [heavy, curvy, etc.] women are X" are we convincing people that it's not true, or are we only convincing them that "[Particular woman] is special and thus not X"?

(At the end of the day, I do keep in mind the issues about curves when I dress, because I've experienced that kind of judgment - but I don't like that I do!)

Forgive the ramble - I'm very interested in how people of different sizes and shapes are perceived, and I'm curious what others think.

Suz - you're so sweet. I'll take that symbolic medal from you -- no need for a real one, not sure I could work it into an outfit

Adorkable - I think the tangent you raise is quite valid. Were a curvier woman to wear some of the dresses seen on the red carpet she'd be ticketed for indecent exposure (i.e. dresses with deep v-necks cut down to the waistline). I think you should start a separate thread to elicit thoughts on that very interesting topic.

Such an interesting thread... I've been following it the last few days and as a plus size girl... I say... yes absolutely! Yes, plus sizes can be stylish, but it is SO much harder to be stylishly me! I could probably go into one or two plus size stores now and pick up some conventionally classic pieces, put together an outfit and look stylish to an onlooker. But those clothes don't necessarily feel like me. Finding things that are ME - well that's a different story. And yes, it is all very tied up with self esteem.