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Dressing for context...

gryffin

Veteran

Last night I attended a concert at Rugter's University. My son is in the wind ensemble (top tier) high school band and this was an honors band invitational performance. Our HS band has a uniform the school rents black tuxedos for the boys and long black skirt, black top and pearls for the girls. After the HS bands had completed their performances one of Rutger's symphonic bands took the stage. Right in front first row was a very pretty young woman playing the oboe. She was a soloist and had quite a large part, but other instruments also had a featured prominent solo. Rutger's dress code was clearly black pants, tops, shoes for everyone. No one other than this girl, was in a blazer including the conductor. The pieces below are exact on the outfit (I know that's totally pathetic that I recognized the jacket). Although she was technically following the dress code her outfit, esp the Louboutins, were riveting. Although the blazer made sense to keep her arms free while she played, she was constantly adjusting it and the slits of her pants which extended to low mid thigh required attention frequently. IOW it was fussy. I'm very torn about how I felt about her outfit. Bands are ensembles and I ended up staring at her, figuring out what she was wearing during the entire performance. (BTW every other woman was either in ballet flats. There were no exceptions that I could see.) Not just because it was unusual but because it required adjustment. OTOH, as an artist making herself prominent must be very helpful. Everyone noticed her. She as excellent and played well, but she set herself so far apart sartorially from the norm, that my personal impression was a "don't." Any one of those pieces, the shoes, pants or jacket individually would have attracted notice drawing the eye and getting the job of standing out done. "See I"m pretty awesome, I play well, have a great wardrobe, please feature me again" notice. But all three pieces together felt like a slap to the other ensemble members and soloists that she was other, with them but clearly in a different class. I was interested if people thought that was a fair assessment. I think dressing to stand out subtly was fine, but in this context the outfit went too far.

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22 replies

Latest reply was from Gaylene

Murph11

Veteran

Such fabulous pieces. Sounds like she didn’t test-drive the outfit prior to her big moment. If she owned the look w/o having to adjust, it would’ve been perfect and perfectly appropriate in my book ( I like to push the limits)

tanstaafl

I think if the outfit did not require constant adjustment, I would possibly feel differently. But from your description it sounds like her outfit distracted from the performance, which is the opposite of what the dress code was meant to do. So in this context, I would not be pleased with her choice of attire if I was the conductor or another performer.

Cardiff girl

Veteran

She s a young woman just starting out on her style journey,I d be tempted to cut her some slack,we ve all been there haven’t we in an outfit that maybe was not quite right for the occasion but it’s only clothes after all.

kkards

Veteran

a couple of years ago we where at a concert at Tanglewood that featured solist had a really distinctive gown on...we had a really interesting conversation about it...anyway, it turns out dressing is part of this artists image/package/brand....music is a hard way to make a living and i'm wondering if the artist you saw was just trying to find a way to stand out and make her mark...

here's a story about the solist that i saw
https://www.glamour.com/story/.....s-outfit-t

https://www.newyorker.com/maga.....erformance

Anonymous

I wonder if you would have felt the same way had the choice of clothes been from brand names that weren’t so high end.

So for example, a bright blue blazer from Old Navy.

Anonymous

I should mention: I would be utterly distracted by louboutins too. And I would be thinking whether the girl is wearing her mother’s clothes, and what her parents do for a living. Clearly, I would be very distracted.

If however, she had been wearing something that stood out in an arty way, like a blazer with some fancy embroidery, say, I would have thought “cool topper” and then stopped thinking about it. So the topper is still distracting, but less so.

I feel lile that is a shortcoming of mine: to be distracted by “tells” of wealth. I think one good thing is I don’t have NEGATIVE feelings about status symbols, but I do get distracted

Anonymous

Maybe the girl herself, wearing her mother’s clothes, doesn’t even realize how fancy they are, lol!

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Such an interesting question, Gryffin... (and congratulations to your son, by the way!)

In thinking on this, it sounds as if there are several elements going on...there are issues of class signalling...which you allude to...and also, perhaps, the soloist's response or attempt to respond to what I perceive as a subtle or not-so-subtle "sexualization" of female performers, especially soloists, in classical music. Was she trying to be "sexier" than the others (those slits, those red-soled stilettos!), or was she trying (with a jacket and pants) to masculinize herself compared to the usual for female soloists (who often appear in gowns in other contexts)...or, oh, who knows?

If she was trying to be "sexier" in some way, it's understandable, given the pressures on women to do just that, and the incredibly competitive nature of the field...yet at the same time, what a delicate dance this is for women, for if she appears to be "trying too hard" she will be judged by peers and mentors/ public alike as over the top.

I can't help feeling that if SHE were HE, the situation would be so much easier. Even if his clothes were to the trained eye more expensive than his peers.'

The moral of the story, to me, is that it's just plain difficult to be a woman performer!

It's a really interesting question for me as someone who sometimes has to appear in the public eye. I find "appearance" dressing as a writer to be extremely difficult because there is no uniform. My own solution is, essentially, to create my own uniform. For most occasions, I'll wear a navy blazer, jeans -- to signal informality -- or trousers if the event is more formal -- some kind of bootie or sandal, depending on weather, some kind of top -- varies according to what I perceive as the formality of the event. I never feel as "cool" as my black-leather moto clad rocker-chic style colleagues, or as "arty" as some of my EF clad colleagues, but it's a bit truer to who I am. Still, there are times when I still feel I don't have the "right" outfit or perhaps the formula needs some tweaks to feel less conservative. Sorry to derail there -- just thinking on the keys.

Anonymous

I agree with Suz: it is difficult as a woman performer! What do you wear?! It seems like a mine field!
The best thing we can do as spectators, is cut people some slack, as @cardiff mentions.

Bonnie

Veteran

The soloists and female concert masters do dress differently. They set themselves apart from the group by their dress and presentation. I haven't figured out why because I've never been part of a musical group but I've seen this over and over. Maybe she has some innate feeling that she is part of this special group but hasn't yet found her style. It would be interesting to follow her career.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I've seen professional symphony members occasionally wear similar stilettos - talk about sitting shoes!

In this case, sounds like the slits in the jacket and pants were too distracting. Hard to know that without a trial run, though, which she may not have done. I wouldn't have known the $$ of the items myself, and I doubt a lot of others would either. But in my experience, symphonies, even if they have soloists, still want everyone to look basically the same. Being a guest artist, singer, etc., who is not sitting with the rest of the ensemble is a different matter.

L'Abeille

Veteran

Not directly related to your question, but this is reminding me of two different ensembles I have seen recently where they were clearly told "Wear all black, but incorporate one blue element of your choice". Delightful to see how individuality is expressed in that context -- necktie, blazer, shell under blazer, lining of blazer with rolled cuffs, ribbon shoelaces... I've seen photos of choirs with a similar theme.

Now I'm remembering one Easter Sunday when our church choir was instructed "look at the Gap window in the mall. Wear grey, white, beige." I realized when I saw the platform decor... we were meant to emulate a rock.

Hijack over. Sorry.

Christina F.

Veteran

kkards, I’ve seen Yuja Wang too, and thought she was a breath of fresh air, in many respects.

I think the poor oboe player didn’t think her outfit through. I wonder if anyone said anything to her afterwards, if she violated th dress code? She probably just had this outfit she was excited to wear and didn’t think it all through. Even if she prefers to stand out, it sounds like this outfit wasn’t a match for her playing because it’s so tricky.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Congrats to your son, Gryffin.

The only thing that gives me pause about the outfit is that the wearer had to fiddle with it during her performance. It was fussy when you play oboe. I bet the wearer didn't stop to think how the slitted pants would look when seated. I am constantly asking clients to do sit-down tests.....it's easy to forget that part.

The items were 100% within the dress code and it sounds like "all the right parts were covered". No flashing boobs and the like, IYKWIM. If she wanted to look "sexier" and stand out, in heels and cape - I feel that is her sartorial right.

gryffin

Veteran

Murph - yes I'm sure she will be deciding if the visual is worth the fussiness for future concerts.
Tanstaafl - agreed it was the constant adjustment was distracting but it fortunately did not seem to impair her performance.
cardiff girl - I was not trying to judge her. I was interested in how this outfit would be perceived, for the perspective of the audience, other musicians and professors in the audience and her fellow band members. I discussed her outfit with my son this morning, who got to watch the Rutger's band perform. According to him he and his friends would have been very angry. He felt her dress was disrespectful to the other band members since it was clearly a major departure from the norm. He felt it took away from the notice of the other soloists and since band is by nature an ensemble, he felt she was disrespectful to the group by courting such obvious notice in her dress. That is a 16 yo boys comment her her appearance.
Kkards - thank you. I am going to read those pieces. If this young woman was a guest or featured soloist I would have thought her outfit, however fussy, was very appropriate. It's the context she is part of an ensemble and she was the only one to deviate from the cultural norm. I absolutely get if from her perspective. All the arts are incredibly competitive, you want to get noticed. The question is whether her use of the extreme in her outfit would get her enough positive notice to merit her choice. Or would this create negativity from her fellow band members and other musicians watching because she is deliberately dressing outside the norms. Or is all notice good notice, like publicity - doesn't matter if it's good or bad as long as they spell your name right!! I don't know the answer, that's why I was interested in asking the question. I can see this from all sides and I'm not sure what would be the most helpful choice for her advancement.
smittie - I think you mistake my noticing the brands from noticing the clothes. The price was immaterial (although I was sitting behind a woman who's son will need financial aid to attend college) and she was commenting that those shoes cost more than almost a year of textbooks. I personally was struck by the high slits or the pants and jacket sleeves, the sky high heels and the disparity of her avant garde pieces juxtaposed with the quieter conservative pieces of the rest of the ensemble. Whether zara, or forever 21, gap or old navy would not make a difference in the visual impact. I just remembered seeing that jacket when I was surfing for blazers and thinking it would be fussy to wear. But it allowed me to locate the pieces. I don't have negative feeling for expensive pieces either but when everyone is in complete black and your red soles are facing the audience, it's hard not to notice.
Suz - the outfit was definitely sexier. In the Rutger's band the women wore black pants and top same as the men. So the look was cohesive. The high slits exposed skin to mid thigh. The question is not whether she achieve the goal of notice. But would the notice be positive or negative if you are the only one doing this and clearly trading on attractiveness and sexualizing the dress when the other members are almost gender neutral forming a cohesive ensemble. That the thing that puzzles me. Was this basically worth it? I personally think a slightly more subtle outfit. The blazer without the split pans, the heels with a conservative tuxedo jacket and non split pants would have been more powerful and less conspicuous. On professional dressing, when their is no ensemble or norm, that's always a fine line to walk. I think that's a to thine own self be true. Your personal power outfit but again with formality dictated by the event and your audience. BTW you always look amazing!!!
bonnie - exactly. Does she feel she is in a different group and that that position merits a unique outfit. I'd be interested in seeing where this takes her and if her choices accelerate her career aspirations or are a negative.
Laura - that's exactly my point. If she were a guest soloist it would have been totally appropriate. As part of the ensemble, I don't know. My son has been invited to perform a solo in a recital featuring the best musicians in his HS. It's a 4-6 min solo or you can request a piano to accompany the piece. If he wanted to swap out his tux cummerbund or bow tie to something eye catching that would not be inappropriate although it might take focus off his performance. But in a concert this would never be allowed.
L'Abielle - that's really cool. Now if this band who's school color is red all had something red on the shoes would make sense!! But I think that's a neat concept the personal within the context of the group norm.

gryffin

Veteran

Christina - I would love to know if that is her normal concert attire of it this an experiment and she wears something else next time!
Angie - thank you. Yes, we are very proud, our boy made all state and will audition for the nationals. So it was interesting to get his take on the outfit because he is extremely aware of appearance as a performer. Because he understands as a musician, you need to attract notice of how good you are to be offered those solos, it was interesting that he had a negative reaction to her outfit. He thought she was an excellent musician. She was also very animated in body language and movement during the performance. He felt the outfit, although it was appropriate to the letter if not the spirit of the "uniform," took attention away from her artistry and performance. He felt he did not take her as seriously an artist. I would love to know how the professors and conductors perceive her dress within that context of advancement and career, because in the end that's what it's all about at her stage. So I agree it's her right, no issues, but the question is is it in her best interest? That's the question I don't know the answer to.

rachylou

Veteran

If she was no one special, I don’t understand. Unless she was an emergency fill in...

Suz

(website)

Veteran

It is indeed an important question and no doubt a fraught one for her!

Now, if she were a guy...a bow tie with an almost inconspicuous but cheeky pattern...a pair of subtle but fun socks...

One of our regular Writersfest moderators, Eric Freisen, a radio personality and classical music aficionado who has moved to the area so now does work for the arts here, has a signature onstage sock style. He always wears fun, colourful socks. Michael Chabon was a guest this fall and also wore fun colourful socks! They show up well on stage.

It's a great trick for a moderator, though, because he can strike a really nifty balance between not drawing too much attention to himself (the rest of him is soberly dressed, often in turtleneck and jacket or plain shirt and jacket and trousers) and yet providing a little bit of personality and a conversational item if needed.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

WOW, Gryffin. You are right to be proud of your accomplished son. VERY interesting assessment from your son too.

And there you go - bang on the money. Totally the wearer's right to dress the way she did - but whether it was in her best interest, I cannot assess. I know nothing about the music world. That's where you and DS know best. Again, a too fussy outfit as an animated and moving performer. Cape flapping about, right?

ETA: One of the Olympic figure skaters was wearing a top that flapped about earlier this week, and it took attention away from his skating - which I thought was a poor choice of outfit.

Runcarla

Veteran

Having been a band mom and amateur musician myself, I would volunteer that the 'proper' thing would have been to conform to the cultural norm and let her talent do the talking in this venue. That said, I wonder how she normally dresses? Maybe she stands out amongst her peers, going against the grain of stereotypical 'band kid' as a fashionista or excentric? If that is the case she may be oblivious to how others might see her, or maybe just not care? From your description of the event, she must be a talented musician to earn the spot she held. Furthermore, this can't have been her first performance. It would be interesting to learn the story behind the outfit!

gryffin

Veteran

rachy - ikr - regular ensemble, not that that's not special, they all are. But they are a hive like collective. To a certain extent giving up their individuality to achieve something magical as a group. I think there's an altruism and a true beauty in that. Like cells in the body each special and necessary but as a whole something more.
Suz - I like that. It would be the same if she wore only one individual element. Subtle but still denoting her status as a featured player but not so in your face that it distracted from the others musicians.
Angie - exactly. We all respect free choice but as we discuss on the forum and blog all the time, "did our outfit accomplish its goal?" Did it send the message we wanted, or did it give a different impression. Did it enhance our standing or detract from it. It was the best example of this dilemma I've seen in a long time and raised so many interesting questions. Does the notoriety from maximalizing the pieces or sexualizing them draw the "right" kind of attention? The ultimate did your wardrobe "help" you dilemma!!
Runcarla - exactly right. I would put money this is her. But I will also tell you this was one of the symphonic bands, I think there are several. She was not selected for Wind Ensemble and she is a music major (they had non majors stand up to show how inclusive they are). So this begs the question does this sartorial persona in any way, detract from her standing as a musician? Was that a negative? Probably not, since at least in HS, its all audition based, but if two people were almost identical in ability and audition, would dress and perception swung the pendulum negatively or favorably? I don't know the answer to that and obviously I'd like to. I know in academics, the male higher ups make show preference to smart women in sexy attire, but when push comes to shove, serious brains and profession clothing does seem to win out. The short term benefits vs the delayed gratification but long term achievement in the sexy vs serious chronicles. But this is the arts, wonder if it's the same?

Gaylene

Veteran

Being young, beautiful, talented, and wanting to stand out at an important event aren’t really the issue here—at least in my opinion. This young woman has a lot going for her, but she also has much to learn about sensitivity. Since we don’t know her back story, we’ll never know exactly why she chose this venue and occasion to push the boundaries of the group norm, but I do hope it wasn’t because someone told her it was her right to dress as she wanted.

Knowing when to stand apart and when to meld into the group takes sensitivity and a degree of maturity. Conformity to dress code to put the spotlight on the group doesn’t come at the expense of a person’s right to self expression. I hope this young woman has a friend who can help her understand the positives—and negatives—of her choice to stand apart from her peers. Her career path might be less rocky if she becomes more sensitive as to how her personal decisions affect those around her.