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Do men not know what women look like?

FlorenceFearne

I know, it seems like a stupid question, but hear me out. I was thinking about this today. I suddenly realized, if women can be brainwashed by the media and society to think that somehow an airbrushed body with gravity defying breasts and a minuscule waist is not only achievable, but normal, then why wouldn't men think the same? I read a blog post at one point (cannot re-find it now, but still looking) where the lady said she was talking to a group of college students about reproductive anatomy when a male class member raised his hand and asked if women really did have pubic hair, like she was showing in the pictures. Evidently he had gotten all his "knowledge" of female anatomy from adult films and men's mags. For that matter, my own SO is a wonderful guy, but cannot seem to grasp that although I can attain a very flat stomach, it requires me to spend 5 days a week in the gym - a commitment that I cannot currently make. I weigh 119 pounds, and I still have a tummy pooch. It's just a reality. And that's true for a lot of women. Same with cellulite. I can be at my very fittest and thinnest, and I will still have some cottage cheese thigh. But I start to wonder, lacking exposure to any real, imperfect female bodies, do men really not know what a real life woman looks like anymore? Will every man's first girlfriend really have to do all the uphill climbing of "letting him down" by shattering the flawless bodies myth? What a shame that would be. Yet how can we blame them, if we forget ourselves what's true and what's fabrication?

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27 replies

Latest reply was from lyn*

Adelfa

Veteran

I think it's probably true that all of us, men and women, are brainwashed by the media images.

ManidipaM

Veteran

Yeah. Or what said bodies feel like (like not all love buttons appreciate pressing or pulling, some prefer a touchscreen approach or gloved hands say...being euphemistic). Or sound like. Or smell like. Yeah.

Jeanie

Veteran

Well I've heard that so many women shave "down there" now that some young men have never seen pubic hair. So it may be partly a generational issue for the young man you mentioned.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

Well, do we know what men look like? They don't all have six packs

Caro in Oz

Veteran

What lyn said.

We live near the beach & it is the best place for seeing that the human body comes in all shapes & sizes

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

To be honest, I thought that all men looked like the cartoons in the anatomy textbook.

The first time I saw a guy who wasn't circumsized I was like, "Whoa, what's with this skin sock thing? How long have you had this?" That is NOT what you expect your doctor to say - luckily, he had a good sense of humour.

Irene

Veteran

I'm with lyn*. Do we know what men look like?

I do think though that we are far more bombarded with images of 'perfect' women than with images of 'perfect' men.

Plus, we women are masters of deception. There are so many dressing items that help us look more like the women in the magazines and less like ourselves. Bras, spandex, high heels, make up, push up pants and tights, hairstyling products. Think about it. The woman they meet at the bar, all dressed up and pretty with her push up bra and her sky-high heels has nothing to do with the woman they will wake up next to the following morning.
Talk about being deceptive and honestly unfair.

Jules

Veteran

Huh. I actually feel that many men have a healthy appreciation for real women's bodies (and by real I mean all non-photoshopped women, of all body types). I mean, men are attracted to actual women all day long, date us, have sex and even fall in love with us. And I think they can be far more forgiving of perceived flaws than we are.
That said, I see the danger of overexposure to porn, and have heard that younger men who grew up with the Internet can have some unrealistic ideas around sex. So I guess it's not a stretch that they might have weird ideas about the bodies involved too.

ironkurtin

Veteran

I think it depends on the man. And the woman.

If my man expects flawless perfection from me, he will be sadly disappointed. Especially when I kick him to the curb with a giant boot mark on his butt.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

I have to admit, I only just recently became aware that much of the younger generation removes their pubic hair. Guess that makes me of an 'older' generation. Oh middle age, here I come!
I feel kind of sad if indeed porn is forming the basis of what these kids expect sex to be, and the bodies involved in said acts. Irene has a point about the willful visual trickery women have been using for years, though!

deb

Veteran

I do not understand the pubic hair thing and all the younger folk seem to be shaving all body hair off. I imagine that will stop when life, children jobs etc. become more important.

FlorenceFearne

Thanks everyone for weighing in. I was definitely thinking along the same lines as Irene when I wrote this, that we do all we can to maintain the illusion while we're dressed, so that even though we may think men see us and of course they know what we look like, that's not necessarily true. Enough makeup, spanx, and other visual trickery, and a person can look vastly different. But once you undress there's no way to cleverly conceal scars/stretch marks/freckles/fat/hair. Not that any of those things are abnormal, just that men may not realize.

I know that some people may be incredulous to hear me say that, like I'm selling guys short and implying they're stupid. Not at all. But if we get fooled, it's a safe bet men do too. And they don't have the firsthand knowledge that we do.

I had a few guys at work quizzing me about my high heels, and they seemed baffled to learn that no, 6 inch stilettos are not that comfortable, and yes, they can damage your body. They seem mystified by nearly anything that would imply that women are real humans who have to work to stay "pretty." These 2 were both very young men who spend most of their time home alone with their internet connection and their video games, and have given me the impression they've never had a lot of physical interaction with the opposite sex. Now obviously these same guys work with lots of women who come to work without makeup on, who aren't rail thin, etc, but this leads me to wonder if they basically think there are 2 types of women: hot ones, and the rest. They don't realize that the "hot ones" look basically like all the rest of us without their false lashes, styling products, spray tan, stiletto heels, and push-up bra. And that is what makes me a little sad.

Echo

Veteran

Has anyone ever seen that SNL skit with the woman a man brings home from a bar? He discovers that she isn't as tall (heels), as thin (undergarments), large busted (padded push-up bra), beautiful haired (wig), perfect smiled (false teeth), etc. In the end, she even has a false leg, just to really drive home the ridiculousness of it all. And the skit is older, so this isn't some new phenomenon.

Regarding body hair, I am about the same age as Mo (I think), and there was definitely the expectation when I was a teen that women had no body hair. Okay, not that I examined other women, but it was the "standard" in magazines that talked about the best ways to remove it, and friends trying everything under the sun. So maybe it started as regional, though that seems unlikely as I am from the Midwest (though I lived for a while in Boston).

I think it is simply ignorant young men. Any man who had been with women would know that women aren't at all like the billboards they see. So was this young man a video game geek holed up in his mother's basement? Like it was mentioned, no matter the muscle magazines and men on television, women know that 98% of "real" men don't look like that!

rachylou

Veteran

Interesting. You know, I think the world is divided into the "pretty camp" and "jolie laide" camp. Some people think the so-called flaws are flaws and some of us think those same features are they key to beauty (hehe, guess which camp I'm in).

And frankly, I think our kith and kin do a lot to nurture the one or the other in us.

And also, I think you'd have to go find some Dark Age peasants to find people who knew what people looked like without any artifice. Humans love artifice and self-decoration.

DeniseP

Rachylou, you are too funny! Even though I don't fully understand your comment, after reading this whole thread, got somewhat tickled. I'm sixty plus years, so unaware about some of the younger generation's ideas. But they sound ridiculous to me.

Gaylene

Veteran

Well, I raised two sons who never seemed too impressed by women who looked (in their words) "artificial". Most of the girls and women they dated didn't resemble the images in the magazines and movies, and yet my boys seemed to find them attractive enough to date--and eventually marry.

As for seeing "ordinary" female bodies, I think that both of my sons were quite used to viewing a wide variety of female shapes and sizes after spending a few summers in Europe at more than one "clothing optional" beach. Like Echo, I'm sure there is a subset of ignorant young men who might be surprised at the sight of a female body that doesn't resemble a billboard model, but, then again, there might also be young women who are surprised at the sight of a nude male body that doesn't resemble Ryan Gosling's physique in Crazy, Stupid, Love.

Being the only female in a male-oriented household was definitely enlightening because I found that so many of the ideas that we women have about what attracts and interests a man aren't that accurate. Both of my sons, and their friends, seemed just as vulnerable and unsure of their appeal to women as any female I've known. They didn't much care for females who seemed too caught up in trying to "catch their attention" or spent too much time primping and looking fashionable. They seemed drawn towards females who made them feel good about themselves and who had many of the same interests. Some of their girlfriends were stunners, but that aspect always seemed like an accessory rather than the main event.

Lyn D.

Veteran

Interesting. I do remember seeing a documentary on TV about an experimental sex-Ed program where part of it was showing middle-school aged boys a group of women naked.
They were generally surprised to see that most slim females have relatively small to medium sized breasts!
I guess they were more used to the augmented ones they had seen on the internet.

Carla

Veteran

Like Gaylene said and Rachylou has a great point as well. There are many different ways to be beautiful. My personal preference runs to guys who are a little craggy and beat up looking (Robert Redford, Sean Bean, Harrison Ford, DH!) vs 'pretty' boys or over-buff shiny hairless types that look like G-I Joe.

I don't make a big deal of my maintenance routine, but the men (DH and 2 sons) know I shave my legs and pits from time to time, and I visit a hairdresser and aesthetician for a little strategic waxing, colouring, etc.Also, because our family isn't too uptight about nudity, we've seen each other naked.

Men have hairy issues as well. DH has never been able to grow facial hair, much to his chagrin, and DS #2 inherited his maternal GGfather's hirsutism and has yetty tendencies.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

I remember my first boyfriend asking me why I didn't "look like other girls" - by which he meant like the girls that were on the billboards and the magazines. Luckily, he's grown up since then!!

I think most guys are aware the heels have to hurt - (if they think they don't, I kick mine off and make them try them on!) - and they know that it takes "forever" for us to get ready, so we must be doing something.

I agree that I've met a lot of guys who are just as insecure as some girls about their appearances. It's a lot more refreshing than some of my male colleagues who think they're perfect 10's and strut around the hospital like proud preening peacocks and are surprised when all the women don't faint around them.

ironkurtin

Veteran

FF, I expect many unsocialized men have very strange ideas about sexuality and physical bodies, period. Poor little babes in the wood.

Gigi

Veteran

I think part of it also has to do with where you live. I grew up in a very small town where most families didn't have a lot of money, and hardly anyone even got their nails done. It was before push-up bras, so your bust was what it was. Fast-forward about ten years, and I moved to the big city. EVERYONE got their nails done (including pedicures, OMG), everyone got their hair highlighted or colored, everyone got facials, everyone went to the gym, etc. I think if you live in a large metropolitan area, a lot of people have the money to spend on lots of beauty services, and then the rest of the people feel like ugly ducklings and try to keep up, despite the fact that for some it is a significant financial hardship.

minimalist

Veteran

"Sometimes I forget just how disturbed this country really is."
- bf, when I told him about this thread

He went on to share stories of co-workers over the years who've lacked rudimentary information about women's bodies. Including a guy who had heard there were things you could do in bed besides intercourse, and wanted to impress a new girlfriend. He happily bought the Hitachi they recommended, then reported that it was impossible to ... insert. The guy was educated, but had never heard of a clitoris. Another guy was considering whether to date a heavy woman, and had to be convinced to accept her as-is rather than beginning to date with the idea of getting her to lose weight.

Not to pick on the U.S. too hard; both of us have seen plenty of unfortunate lack of awareness where we're from respectively and other places we've lived. He's been here a lot longer than I have, working in tech the whole time, so perhaps his experience is weighted heavier with American males who'd skipped biology and with European co-workers generally having relatively (!) more experience. It doesn't seem like porn consumption in itself is a factor, but perhaps context is everything.

I'm pretty perplexed by the rampant acceptance of male circumcision here, though. Really, 20,000 nerve endings forcibly and irreversibly removed from a tiny being who'll grow up without any idea what he's missing, or what experience that tissue would have turned into. Not to mention all the North American women who think circumcised is normal and intact is somehow aberrant. All because some doctors believed circumcision would reduce masturbation, so sold a bill of goods about ease of hygiene.

MsMary

Veteran

I'm reading this thread, and I'm thinking, "But... but... don't these men have mothers? Didn't they grow up in a house with at least one woman?" I mean, my son hasn't seem me naked since he was a toddler, but after growing up living with me he's well aware of the work that goes into maintaining a woman's appearance. And the topic of pubic hair and the removal thereof has, I daresay, come up in conversation at least once in 27 years!

I've always felt that as a mother of a son it was my job to raise a good man for the next generation of women.

ironkurtin

Veteran

MaryK, I guess different people have different ideas of what "a good man" is. I recently met a woman who told me proudly that her son was still a virgin - in his mid 20s, an age when really, he should be trying some stuff out! I was flummoxed. Either she's delusional, he's a liar, or two someones (since I was informed he was saving himself for someone similarly "pure") are gonna have a very rude awakening when it comes to the oogie boogie on their wedding night. Talk about a clash of expectations with reality! (And before someone asks, I would have been similarly bemused had her child been a girl. I personally think a little experience is no bad thing in such an important part of life.)

So one hand you have a culture that thinks porn and/or fashion bodies are normal, on the other, you have a screaming distaste for even considering monkey business before marriage. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

Echo

Veteran

Stepping aside from what some people believe about sex before marriage, I am shocked anyone would feel it was appropriate to discuss their 20-something's sexual status! Regardless of whatever you choose to do or not do, I don't want to know about it, and I've always assumed the rest of the world agrees (although given the amounts of information often divulged on social media, I guess I am more alone than I thought in this regard)!

FlorenceFearne

@IK - oh my gosh, I once watched a show about some couples that were saving it for marriage (and no, I am not bashing people choices or religious views) but they spent the entire wedding reception making all the guests uncomfortable with some of the worst sloppy, loud, tongue flailing kissing you've ever seen. They were later interviewed about the wedding night, and basically did a lot of stammering about how it was really awkward and not very nice. It was kind of sad to imagine anyone had waited that long only to be let down.

And yes, I do think the guys in question that I spoke with really just don't get out much. But I was thinking about the whole porn thing. I mean, it's weird to me, because I think even that has gotten worse. And no, I'm not even discussing subject matter - I mean the actual images. For example, when I compare this pin-up of Marie McDonald from the 1950s to one of Katie Perry in Maxim magazine in 2011, there's a HUGE difference. Marie may have done well in the genetic lottery, but Katie is so airbrushed and perfect, she looks almost alien. So at least men were looking at something real at one point in time, but it sure isn't that way now. How are we supposed to set realistic expectations with anyone when apparently no women in any recent large publication has any flaws at all? I dunno, this just drives me crazy.

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lyn*

(website)

Veteran

@ lk - Yikes! If my mom was out there discussing my sexual status, I think I'd never show my face around the town again!