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Define "Quality"

Deborah

Veteran

Hi Ladies,

I have been thinking about this a lot of late, particularly given YLF has opened up a whole new world or designers, labels/brands and price points.

We often discuss that it is perhaps wiser to choose quality over quantity and I do agree with this. But I am wondering how we all define 'quality'. And does a high price guarantee 'quality'.

I like fabrics that feel good to the touch, and items that have been well stitched and hang or drape well. I expect a lot from them and by that I mean more than one season, really I want them to keep up with me until I am ready to part with them. When I considered this, I realise I have a number of of garments in my closet that meet this criteria that were purchased at different price points. For example, I have Jacqui E dresses that were around the $89 - $120 price range that are in as good a condition as they day I bought them. I have an oversized drapey t top that I paid $10.00 for that has been washed and worn too many times to count. It looks and feels as good as when I first bought it. And I have lovely booties that were just under $200. I could go on but Im sure you get the gist.

As some of you may know, I have been looking for something to wear to a wedding in a couple of weeks. I have searched high and low I have checked out all our stores in person and tried on a multitude of garments. Until last Thursday, nothing I had tried was good enough (on a number of levels).

The only stores I avoided were the few that I know would stretch my budget too far, and they are stores that I don't shop at because I don't believe the quality and price tags are equitable. Again this had me thinking about what quality looks like to each of us.

And then last week I found a beautiful dress for the wedding. It's appears well cut and put together, beautiful weight but not too heavy a fabric. I would say the quality is excellent .. and wait for it, it's from Target. Honestly it is a better dress than those I found in our large Department Store selling at higher prices but with fabrics that felt cheap and rough to the touch, and seams that didn't sit right because of what appeared to be bad stitching.

Does high end fashion always equal quality? And is it that middle level of more affordable fashion where we see the most inconsistency?

I would be very interested in your thoughts, as I think most of us here are seeking quality items that work within our budgets.

xxx Deborah

Shopping

26 replies

Latest reply was from Ingunn

jenanded

Veteran

I think you are spot on that quality is about cloth, cut, standard of construction and finishing. and some expensive brands do not deliver at all. I quite like it that even though I am a bit of a snob with brands here at home, when I go overseas I have no idea of brand status and select things on quality/price ratio... because I am not being snobby and also because I am more adventurous in what I look at, I have some honeys that were ridiculously cheap! and I DO LOVE your comment of you expect them to last until YOU are ready to move on in the relationship - what a great critersa. I would buy the target dress - and unpick the label if it worries you especially since outfits bought for weddings dont end up being worn to that many events afterwards...

anne

Veteran

Not to answer all your points, Deb, but I agree that Target at times has good quality and you yourselves have said that it seems Australian target has better quality than the USA one.

ElleH

Veteran

Among my many careers I was a Quality Controller in the fashion industry in Melbourne many years ago. I think quality is fabric which includes fibre & dye used & construction, which includes pattern, stitching, thread, linings, trim, interfacing, zips, buttons etc. I believe price is affected by many things & is not always related to quality, though the best fabrics will never be cheap. One higher end company I worked for had great patternmakers & manufacturers & trim, but sometimes the same garment would be made in several fabrics. The synthetic blend ones would sometimes pill.

Target have a large quality control dept but it focused a lot on sizing. Also the bigger chain stores can charge less because they screw manufacturers right down on price & then the manufacturers have to get things made in China where the sewers aren't paid much & live in the factories where they work.

I'm not saying I don't shop in Target. I'm just explaining a little about price vs quality etc. I like Coach leather bags & Frye boots which used to be made in the USA. They are now made elsewhere, cheaper places yet they charge more for goods that cost a lot less to produce.

RM Williams boots cost a lot more these days but are still made in Australia & the quality still seems the same though they use plastic toe caps now.

Deborah

Veteran

Jen, I used to be a brand snob (lol) but not any more. I am very comfortable with buying from Target as everything I have bought from them in recent years has been brilliant, so I am very happy to leave the label on

Anne, yes it seems that our Target may be quite different. And it is still part of the Coles Myer group.

Elle, you have a great perspective with your work experience. I am very aware of how some items manage to be so 'inexpensive' and that is certainly a whole other conversation but I do consider that also in when I puchase.

Thistle

Veteran

I think you have defined it well. To me, it is a,ways about price versus quality.

I am not cutting edge, nor do I care about designer labels, so I find that few designer items I have come across have quality in line with their prices. I think in these cases you are paying for cutting edge style.

I have found some products from Target on par with very expensive stores. We had to shop there when I was a kid as we couldn't afford anything else. So as an adult, I tended to avoid them. When I was pregnant, Several people told me to check them out. i did, and i was amazed at how many 100% cotton maternity items they had that were reasonable well made and in current styles. Their prices were so much less than competing retailers, with as good or better fabric, in reasonable construction.

I have considered taking a second look at them for non-maternity.

Kalli

I think quality used to be a lot better when people were looking to buy quality, for example look at men's clothing and shoes. Men are resistant to a price point, if they do pay more for something they get the quality.

Even designers with very $$ prices skimp on quality. They only put effort into their higher end lines or staples. I was fortunate to have been gifted a Burberry London skirt, but the quality is atrocious. As someone that has taken sewing classes and knows how to sew, I find it galling that the zipper gets stuck, the seaming is uneven and they retail this skirt for $595! However their jackets still made in Britain, a staple item they have been getting right for years is still good. I was reading in a financial magazine how companies like Burberry make a smaller margin of profit by keeping the trench in the UK and thus having to make record profits by exploiting other pieces of their business. Right now they are making $$ on their name because so many people think the measure of success is wearing only brand names.

Quality to me is not defined by the name of the brand but the satisfaction I get from judging the value of the material, intricacy of the pattern on the item, stitching and hold up of the garment.

I am happy with H&M tank tops made of Pima cotton at a price of $8.99 not on sale. The quality is good enough to me for that price, I don't expect it to last as long as other items I pay for but my conscious does die when I read about Bangladesh fires at the garment factories (so I won't be buying again).

I think if your wallet can handle it, I tend to buy more consciously. But then again, I am happy and aiming towards a well edited wardrobe.

Quality is all over the map, just use your best judgement and not get caught in the trap of it's expensive therefore it must be better. However, I do think dyes fade faster on lower priced brands, aka my black shirts don't stay as black even though I hand wash, hang dry.

Beth Ann

Veteran

Deb, I think one factor we haven't mentioned is synthetic vs. "natural" fabrics. I'm not wanting to return to those photoprinted polyester and nylon shirts of the 70's that stank like an NBA locker room, but I think sometimes synthetic fibers and blends hold up better than natural fibers.

Also, I think women, in particular, are buying design, not construction, when they buy high end. Of course, some design houses are quite conscientious, and I love nothing more than turning these garments inside out, looking at the interfacing, quality linings and buttonholes, etc. I rarely go into high end boutiques though --- the ones that have impossibly thin tees that have clearly NOT been cut with the weave of the fabric and are already misshapen, despite being priced at $80 to $125. No. I'll save real mother for leather and wool and cashmere!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Elle put it very well - and how fab to know that you were a QC in the rag trade

High Price does NOT equal Better Quality. But higher price points often yield a better made product. Walk in to Barneys and walk into H&M. BIG difference in quality and price point.

Lower Prices can produce quality items - such as the dress you saw at Target, Debs. But often, lower prices do mean skimping on quality.

Anonymous

This is such an interesting subject. I agree that something expensive can look cheap if the materials and workmanship aren't up to par. Sometimes you're paying for the style (before it trickles down to mass retailers) and sometimes for the brand name.

I have found great quality at mid-range price points as well. It really starts with the fabric. A quality fabric lies nicely, behaves well in the wash and is easier to cut and sew so that there are no lumps and bumps. A lot of the well made clothing I've been able to find in my price range is frumpy in the style department, and not exactly cut in a flattering way. Too bad, because those clothes will last forever because they wear like iron! I'm thinking about clothes my Mom has had for 30 years that I *wish* would wear out.

Transcona Shannon

Veteran

Excellent points Deb and interesting discussion. I definitely think quality items can be found at all price points but unfortunately, seems to be more available at higher cost.

My $30 tweed front trousers from Sears are excellent quality - for what they are. But do I think they will last for years? Not likely - I suspect at some point, the black stripes down the side will start to pill. But the quality relative to the price point, is excellent. In other words, it's all relative.

Sarah A

Veteran

I have always been taught the theory to "buy quality" but I often didnt really understand what that meant. Since I started try to learn, part of what helped me discover YLF, I have primary limited my selections to cotton, wool, silk, leather, and cashmere. I do look at seams and drape, being a beginning seamstress has helped in this regard as well. Last summer when I started looking to expand from carrying a gear bag into purses I started with the mantra "if the first statement this handbag makes inst quality, the rest dont matter." I really have expanded that to most of my clothes at this point.

Interestingly enough, the desire for quality/price value point is why I shop primarily second hand. I suppose it has the added benefit of contributing to sustainability and not directly supporting merchants that have poor labor policies (although I do but some basics new that you just dont find second hand). Frustratingly, I tried recently all 8 of the local new clothing shops (admittedly I live in a small town) to try to take in the spring inventory and trends and could hardly find a garment that wasnt nearly 100% polyester, poorly stitched, pattern not aligned well at the seam etc. I kind of refuse to pay even discount merchants cheap prices for this when I know I will come by silks, wool, and cashmere for $5 at the thrift store if I just wait for them to come in. A lot of people relocate to this area from more metropolitan areas and they bring their high end things with them then donate them later.... I suppose? (.... Although, I dont know what they are replacing them with as I certainly cant source much worth buying new locally?) I am an easy to fit size and like many classic items so this really works fairly well. I am working hard to recognize cuts and era's so I can choose well on the style side of the table not just the quality construction and fibre side.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I think Shannon makes an excellent point about quality being relative. I look for high quality at the price point I can afford. And if I can't find quality at that price point, I reconsider my priorities. Perhaps I need to pay more for this or that item, and do without as much variety.

Lyn D.

Veteran

A thoughtful post Deborah, and one alot more important to me since joining YLF.
(So many items in the past were worn once and passed on, so I was unaware of their longevity in terms of washability etc!)
I agree with Sarah, that I am more likely to find 'quality' in thrift shopping, and I rely on labels and fabric for my choices there. If they are also attractive to my eye, timeless and still in good condition I must conclude that they are 'quality' pieces.

CocoLion

(website)

Veteran

I have seen great quality on inexpensive brands like the Gap and Zara. I have also seen just so-so quality from them as well as borderline poor quality. But these are usually items fully priced at under $20 -- so my expectations are low.

I have seen both decent to ok-level quality from H&M but usually, poor level quality.

I have seen poor quality from mid-level brands sold at places like Macy's. But I have also seen great quality.

On the more expensive brands, I usually see good workmanship and fabric. But not always. I got a sweater from Vince, almost $400, and it quickly pilled. There is little that turns you away from pricey brands faster than an experience like this!

Costco garments are often very durable, well-made and cheap but they have very little fashion interest. They're great for staples like button-down shirts for example (work wear).

CocoLion

(website)

Veteran

To summarize my points: I think you can find quality at many price points!

Although if you want brand prestige, cutting-edge style, great workmanship, fabric and fit you will pay the most. As you start to take away each one of these five factors, you start to pay less.

So in the example of the Vince sweater, I got the brand name, style, workmanship and fit but the fabric was a fail.

Deborah

Veteran

I really appreciate your thoughts. It's seems we all share a similar perspective.

Thistle, good point! I do think some designers work on the premise that they are providing so something new and unique.

Kalli, a lot of wisdom! Interesting about Burberry, I didn't know that.

Beth Ann, I have been quite impressed with synthetic fabrics of late. Some feel so lovely I have to go to the tag to check out what it is. But then some others are still horribly cheap looking and to the touch... And have a funny smell:) We have "one of those" boutiques here and my friend bought a cool looking tank top for nearly $300:) She loves it, and it's über trendy and she is unlikely to see anyone else wearing the same here.....but!!

Angie, I do agree with you. Years ago I used to work near an exclusive store in Melbourne and I used to pop in at lunch time and float around the Chanel department. I would just touch the fabrics and be filled with desire :). They were beautiful.

Claire, I would agree. The clothing my mother in law wears is well made, not cheap but not insanely expensive but way to "sensible" for me:)

Shannon, it is relative, I agree. Maybe my next question should be what we consider to be a high price point because that will vary to I suppose based on lifestyle, budget, how we were raised etc. it could be good to make your Sears pants a project and monitor how they wear and who chooses to end the relationship when the time comes.

Sarah and Lyn, good point re thrifting. I'm always amazed at now wonderfully made some vintage pieces are and love finding quality, well looked after current pieces. It's also a great ethical choice in as much as you are choosing to recycle.

Suz, sensible approach. I am not opposed to paying for quality and if an item is out of my immediate budget, I am happy to save or lay by the item.

BTW, I was just using Target as an example, I have no issue with Target goods, but I was suprised that when I was prepared to buy a higher price, I couldn't find anything that I felt was worth my money:)

Deborah

Veteran

Denise we were posting at the same time. Zara is an interesting case in point. I have only visited our Melbourne store once but was pretty unimpressed with the quality here. I need to check them out again because they are doing well and are massively popular.

I like you five factors. I might have to pop these in my wallet as a reminder when I'm shopping.

Niefern

I am very stingy and to me it is very difficult to get rid of clothes if they are in good condition, even if I no longer want to wear them. So I have often thought that in many cases I prefer that they are not so good quality and at some point they fall apart. That way I can happily throw them in the trash!

ElleH

Veteran

Deborah as with Target, Zara in Australia is not the same as the USA. I wasn't impressed with the Melbourne store, completely different clothes to the USA. I shop at the USA Zara & agree with Denise some of it is good & some isn't. I love my leather motorcycle jacket I got there for only $195. It is not as good quality as the more expensive ones but good enough, & the style & fit were perfect. I didn't want to spend $400-$900. I have shopped at Target in Australia & the USA. I can't remember which is better but both are consistently quite good quality for the price. I do agree with Angie though, the really high end stores are going to have more quality pieces to choose from. Again agreeing with Denise & Angie, H & M has some decent quality pieces but not a lot.

siniestra

not exactly ...some ppl believe quality means more $$$ i believe in that most of the garments are overpriced just because of the name of brand. For example the GLobal trend! are exelenct quality...handmade yet designers are putting this prices insanely crazy for a tote or a bracalet ...which i can simply tell my mother to send me one similiar for the price of $10-15 dollars when the designers sell them for 500 bucks just because the name of the brand which is crazy!!!!!!!! Finding a taylor buying your own textile and choosing a design you love ...you can look like a million bucks and don't forget boutiques!!! i love boutiques they have a lot of things well made and cheap! so I only pay $$$$ when is really worth is and won't find it anywhere ! ...u know fashion is cray cray and innovative ...change fast !

Raisin

Veteran

I do not think that higher quality always has to come at a higher price. But I do think if you went just by price tag, more often you would find the better quality items at the higher price. It is about fabric, cut, stitching, lining etc to me. Often you feel the quality in the way the item is made and how it sits on the body. Even if it's a delicate item that needs special washing, I find better quality stand up better to cleaning, which goes back to the fabric.

Sadly, I find today the quality of everything is going downhill. Not just clothing, but appliances, cars, houses, etc. My parents would have their appliances like a washing machine, microwave, stove, etc for 25 years, and I find even though we are supposedly buying high end ones that "last forever", they all are breaking or being replaced within 5-7 years. Not quality to me.

Jaime

(website)

Veteran

Agree with Sarah that the search for quality is often what sends me back to the thrift/consignment shops. The quality of merchandise in most local stores tends to be high on design and sickeningly low on things like material and workmanship. H&M, Gap, Zara, Topshop and other international brands here vary as others have stated. But high end Italian designer clothes, which I find a lot of due to proximity to Italy and luck to live near a lot of compulsive travelers and shoppers who pretty frequently turn over their closets, can be stunning. The seams are as beautiful as the design, the shoes are stitched not glued, etc. To me that is quality. But I still thoroughly enjoy Gap and Zara stuff too!

Caro in Oz

Veteran

I think Denise hit the nail on the head.

Funny story my father was a hosiery mechanic - he fixed, assembled & disassembled machines that made stockings & tights. My family always had "freebies". Sometimes they came in a chain-store package (the old Rockmans) & sometimes they came in Myers own brand which was considered to be prestigious & also cost twice the price . They were exactly the same item from the same thread & off the same machine.

deb

Veteran

I believe that the corporate philosophy is to make the stockholders happy and to do that companies have to make products that need to be replaced often, be it appliances, cars, or clothes. This is what consumerism is all about and they teach it in all colleges. I think it is sad and wonder historically where it will take us. Economics is so interesting!

Adelfa

Veteran

I have lots of stuff from Target--2 dresses, 4 skirts, several tees. I love them all and get compliments on everything (except the tees which are basic). I rarely have complaints about quality at any price point except for sweaters. SO much pilling from so many different fiber content profiles, and so many price points.

If I pay a lot for an item, and it only lasts a season, I will return it even if it's very worn and the store gives me trouble. I explain that I paid that much so that I could wear the item for several seasons and not just one.

Target was my savior when I was unhappy with my weight and needed clothes but didn't want to pay a lot. I got a lot of attractive, classic items.

Ingunn

(website)

Veteran

Interesting discussion! I have benefited greatly from my experience as a home-made seamstress. When I was a teen, I worked in a cloth and sewing shop, and learned tons about garment construction from the ladies working there. I think that quality can be found at any price pint, but the cheaper and more fast fashion oriented the brand is, the more careful you must choose. I look at the content of the fabric, the seams, buttons, and how the fabric drapes to determine quality. One of my successes is a black straight skirt that I bought in 2001 at H&M, which is no worn by my daughter because it is has become too tight for me. 12 years and still going strong - thanks to good quality AND a classic cut and color. There has been a number of misses, too, also among my more expensive purchases.