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Dating but Not Dating

Echo

Veteran

Sorry; I have written a really long post about nothing in particular. Thanks in advance if you bother to read! I'm just frustrated and not sure what the proper etiquette is for a young man who is dating, but denies he is dating..

My DS14 is a freshman in high school. He has liked the same girl since 1st grade, and she likes him, too. They attended all the middle school dances and danced with one another, they invite each other for birthdays or for other fun days out, or even just to come over and play Monopoly.

However, she is fiercely independent and insists on paying her own way for everything. This is fine, and I was the same way when dating, but since neither of them drives, it complicates things like the Homecoming Dance where they can enter as a couple for $10 or pay separately for $7 each. Additionally, DS is still tense and embarrassed about asking her to the dance, despite her always saying yes.

So for a while I figured that maybe they really were "just good friends" and not actually romantically interested. However, her folks have disclosed that she agonizes over what to wear and whether he will ask her to the dances. DS had a surprisingly jealous reaction (which he did not outwardly show, to his credit) when an older boy once asked her to dance (she turned him down). And, hilariously, he claims that SHE is not allowed to date until she is 16, and she claims HE is not allowed to date until he is 16, when neither we nor her parents have made any such rules.

Anyway, the Homecoming Dance is tonight. DS asked her... last night at the football game! Way to wait until the last minute. They have been texting, and he offered her a ride, but she said she would meet him there "around 8-ish". Since DS had not mentioned anything about this dance, I rushed to get an outfit ready for him for tonight, but he could not tell me whether he wanted a corsage or flowers for her. I decided to forego it, but at my school Homecoming was kind of a big deal. Girls wore fairly fancy dresses and corsages or flowers were a must. It was second only to prom in formality.

I guess I won't worry about it if they aren't. It is just frustrating because I'd like to help him have the proper etiquette and be gentlemanly, but given that they are both so relaxed and deny that they are "dating" (DH and I and her parents laugh that the two of them are the only ones who DON'T know they are dating - even all the kids at school have said they were "dating" since 4th grade), it is hard to know what to do!

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17 replies

Latest reply was from rabbit

shedev

Veteran

Is it really important to call the relationship anything? just let them enjoy it for what it is. I'm sure your son treats her with respect, I'm sure the etiquette is taken care of.

Echo

Veteran

Oh, you're right about the label. They don't need one, and I am not out to encourage him to be dating, anyway. It's just hard to know whether he should be bringing her a corsage or flowers for a dance like this. But like you said, as long as they are happy, then why worry?

crutcher

Veteran

When in doubt call her mom and ask if she would like flowers...on the secret don't tell front...I'll bet there are plenty of moms out there who would kill for your cute situation of well we aren't exactly dating...smiile...

rabbit

Veteran

I don't think I ever 'dated.' I had relationships and boyfriends, but there was no etiquette I was aware of (aside from be home by your parent's curfew, explicitly get consent from each-other before anything physical, be honest and kind). I will say that for me 14 is definitely not to early to make sure kids of both sexes know about how to be safe themselves and how to do no inadvertent harm, regardless of what they call the time they spend together.

In terms of the flowers, I'd ask him if he thinks he should bring some and if he has a sense of how formal the dance will be (even if a formal dance, some kids like to not conform in that way). If so, maybe help him buy them if he wants, otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

I'm with shedev. I think it sounds really cute and more age-appropriate than how a lot of teenagers agonize over a "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" that lasts a couple of days before they move on to the next one!

My husband and I were in our 30s when we met, and I wasn't sure whether we were actually "dating" the first few times we went out. That worked out well for us.

Anonymous

They are young and it is funny that they both state that the other can't date till 16. It sounds like they are deliberately acting with the same degree of casualness, which probably isn't a bad thing.

Sal

Veteran

It sounds like they are well suited!! I think there is plenty of time for the "courting rituals" and at the moment maybe this is the perfect scenario for their level of maturity.

I hope the dance goes well.

Lynne

Veteran

no advice, just chuckling at their 'not dating' status.....

Elly

Veteran

I like this post. Of course, your school system could be different but here locally corsages are a "prom only" thing. Homecoming is all about the dress and HOW you get asked. I was a very similar type of girl, and while that worked out for me I do remember occasionally being dissapointed that my "steadies" never did anything special for me that I saw getting done for all the other girls. I would be tempted to take your son out shopping for a little trinket that is very specific to this girl rather than flowers. Something that represents her or is for a hobby and not make a big deal out if it -- just let him casually hand her a simple bag or something. She will feel really special without the pressure of dating and if they decide in the future to be just friends it can be a symbol of a lifelong friendship rather than the other stuff which sends a different message. That also leaves an opening for her to reciprocate at another time for gender equality reasons, where flowers generally do not.

I wouldn't make a big deal about it, but I would casually mention to your son that if he wants to go with her -- even just casually that he ask her at least a couple weeks ahead of time. They could even have a "tenative unless decided otherwise" clause or something. It doesn't have to be dating, but it is way more respectful to let her know ahead of time so she can get things sorted, especially as dances become more formal as they progress through high school and other students put more emphasis on having the "right" type of attire. I would also suggest taking the approach of going ahead and using that "couple" discount and explain how adults take advantage of these things in today's world even if they are only going with a friend. Then, if she wants to pay for half she can give him 5 bucks instead of 7

JennyK (NC)

I love the idea of calling her mom and quietly inquiring about flowers. The young lady might be embarrassed to come right out and say she wants them. I would have died a thousand deaths had one of my dance dates (homecoming, prom, whatever) not shown up at my door with a corsage at least! But I would never have asked for them outright and if the young man *asked* me whether I wanted them I would have felt embarrassed and might have even said no! It was expected that boy's mom would call girl's mom to coordinate colors for cummerbund and flowers. I was in middle/high school in the mid-80's. I guess that's forever ago now, but it doesn't feel like it! Maybe lots of things have changed? I don't know. I feel you though. Maybe they don't dress up or do corsages for homecoming anymore?

I also never insisted on paying my own way when dating. I found it seemed to make guys feel sort of bad, like I would think they can't do it or can't take care of me (thinking meta here - biological gender roles and that sort of thing).

I've always allowed a date to treat me when we go out, and then I reciprocate in other ways (that sounded sort of bad, but there are many ways of reciprocating! LOL).

As to teaching him dating etiquette - I am 100% for that! My twins are only 3.5 years old but I'll be sending their little butts to cotillion as soon as they are old enough!

Anonymous

Around here "dating" means that you're "in an exclusive relationship", whether or not you actually go out on dates. Maybe your son and this girl aren't ready to be boyfriend/girlfriend, but enjoy going to dances together. In other words, maybe it's just a semantics thing? Either way, I think it's great!

ironkurtin

Veteran

I love this post. And I love that as a mom you want your son to be a gentleman!

I third the idea of asking the girl's mother what the girl would like/is hoping to get.

Jules

Veteran

I think they can take their cues from their peers, no? You can ask him gently about flowers etc and provide guidance/assistance when he wants it. If she specifically wanted to meet there instead of being picked up, sounds to me like either the culture at their school around this dance is very informal (last minute invite, no pick up), and/or she wants to set boundaries that for now anyway, are more friend-zone.
They sound very cute btw.

Emily

Veteran

They sound like an adorable couple, and I think it is very sweet that you want your son to be gentlemanly and are there to help out with the formalwear and rides.

Do you know the girl's parents? As a teenager I would have found the idea of my date's mom calling my mom to ask about flowers a little strange.

abc

Veteran

On edge of chair waiting for update!

Echo

Veteran

Well, I decided to let things ride this time and just let them be the awkward teens they are. DS and his friend were texting madly immediately before the dance, and I finally got my son to tell me that entering for $10 vs entering for $7 is a "thing". They wanted to be one of the tens; friends who had had tiffs with their boyfriend or girlfriend of the week went as sevens. So I dropped him off at school and he waited in the foyer (with a number of other boys waiting for their companions) until she arrived and they entered together.

And Elly, that is a great idea. He tends to want to buy her very specific gifts for her birthday and Christmas already. She is very interested in manga, and he has bought her things specific to the series she likes the most. He likes to shop ThinkGeek.com for gifts for her, as they have the things he thinks she would like. He bought her a coffee mug last Christmas that has a heart that shows up when hot coffee is in the cup (yes, she drinks coffee as a Freshman!). And the mug was his idea, not mine (I would have imagined that anything with a heart would have caused him enough embarrassment to have a coronary).

He brought her a corsage for 8th grade promotion last year, so he hasn't been a total cad. I figured I would let them transition to high school without any pressure. However, I've also informed DS that girls her age tend to be easily swept off their feet by older boys who seem to know how to treat a girl, so he might want to ask her to the next dance a little sooner next time. I doubt she would go with anyone else, but I don't want him to be surprised. We have had lots of discussions (with lots of eye-rolling on his part) about how no girl is ever the end of the world.

Anyway, they had a great time! I wish I could have seen how the kids dressed (not to be creepy, just to compare with how things were when I went to school), and whether the girls wore fancy dresses and whether the boys were traditional or wore Converse with their dress pants, etc. DS just brushed off the question and said that the girls dressed like they did for Promotion last year, and that he didn't look at anyone's feet!

rabbit

Veteran

Your son sounds like a sweetheart, and from my perspective, being close friends with a girl, communicating with her regularly to decide things together, exchanging holiday gifts that show he knows and values her as a person count more toward building strong relationships (romantic or not) than any traditional (and depending on individual perspective, possibly old-fashioned) courtship rituals. He sounds like he's doing just fine on his own. You've obviously raised him right

This has been a really interesting thread, just because experiences/perspectives vary so widely. I went to school at the same time as JennyK but my experience was very different. I remember breaking up with a guy in high-school who treated me 'like a gentleman' with a lot of the traditional courtship rituals but seemed to be much more aware of my gender than who I was as a person -- it kind of creeped me out, where another person might have found it romantic.

It would also never occur to me that parents would talk to each other or buy gifts for their children to give to each other in high school. I'm seeing this from the point of view of a former 14 year old who remembers the amours of that age rather than a parent, but I think we did pretty well on our own with thoughtful and meaningful gifts to friends and 'friends' alike. Anyone else remember making and getting mix-tapes? And how they sometimes had themes and you could send covert romantic messages to eachother through song choice?