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Crackpot theory about body image

Scarlet

Veteran

There has been a fair bit of discussion lately about positive/negative body image. I am starting to wonder lately if this if there isn't a strong cultural component to this--well, duh, but here's what I mean. I have been living in Germany for several years now although I am American. Either I have achieved some kind of cosmic well adjustedness (doubtful), or there is a lot less pressure here to look a certain way, or maybe less bombardment with dieting advice, the importance of teeth whitening (people love their coffee and cigarettes way more than white teeth), the importance of chest size, or whatever. Most of the time I find it pretty easy to tune all that stuff out. One thing that really stands out to me here is that magazine pictures and TV shows are much more harshly shot/lit and less touched up, so that you can really see the signs of aging on celebrities or how heavy their makeup is. It's less of a fantasy world in that respect. In the U.S., especially if you at all peruse fashion mags, you can't help but be bombarded by messages about thinness, aging, and the general imperfectness of us all, that could be improved by buying something or some procedure. The message seems to be that whatever you are, it can't possibly be good enough. Another possibility is that the German ideal of beauty just doesn't match with my ideal at all, so I'm just not even touched by it. That might be part of it, but not everything I think.

I am just curious if anyone has thoughts or experiences about this.

General

21 replies

Latest reply was from Kristin L

Kiwichik

Veteran

Hmmm I have to say that I think a lot of unrealistic pressure is created through magazines and television shows. I definitely notice a contrast between what I see in NZ/Aussie/Brit mags and tv shows vs their US counterparts - where people really do seem so perfect that not many of us can aspire to emulate them.

Scarlet

Veteran

Yes, I wonder if a lot of it has to do with Hollywood... The bubble of super crazy is concentrated in L.A. and it radiates out in a weaker form to the rest of us.

fashionista

Veteran

I think you should love your body and yourself first for others to love you later. If you think you are beautiful....you are really beautiful. I don't know about Germany (sorry) but here in our country fairness and thinness is taken as the standard measure of beauty and fairness creams, slimming teas, and all those brands have popped up like mushrooms. Black and/or plus size can be beautiful but the mindset of people are such that a fair thin girl is readily accepted as beautiful with tons of admirers, marriage proposals and the like. Disgusting. EVERY WOMAN IS BEAUTIFUL and people here at our country need to be taught this.!!!!

Kiwichik

Veteran

You may be on to something.

Scarlet

Veteran

Fashionista, what country is that? I have a friend originally from Nepal--she is stunning, but her family apparently nicknamed her "blackie" as a child because her skin was so dark, which was not meant as a nice thing. Fortunately she can laugh about it, but I was pretty shocked when she told me.

fashionista

Veteran

YAY! Scarlet you got it right I am from Nepal. Hahaha "blackie" is a common name for all those women with black complexion here. However Olive with a tint of yellow is the dominant skin color here. So maybe only few are fair white and hence admired most.....LOL.....

Astrid

Veteran

That's very interesting, Scarlet! I can't compare Germany and the US, but I think you're right insofar as that the pressure isn't so much about dieting or perfect skin or white teeth or chest size, it's more about looking a certain way with clothes, doing certain things - at least it was that way in my teens. Back then some of the prettiest girls (at least in my opinion) weren't popular at all, because they didn't dress a certain way, went to certain places or watched certain movies etc., I think you get what I mean.

Everybody talks about individuality all the time, especially the "in" people - although they in particular are the ones with the least individuality IMO, what with their "uniforms of coolness".

I've definitely always felt intimidated by pictures in fashion mags when I was younger, but I have no comparison how magazine pics and tv shows differ to the US norm. I know now that it's important to keep in mind what kind of image editing happens with these pics and they don't bother me anymore, but that wasn't as obvious to me when I was younger.

And even though a lot is about the clothes and not your clothing size, there were always people judging you on certain things, mostly your peer group. The most discriminating comments I got in hindsight were from people my age. Most were about the way I dressed (I guess they were right that I didn't know how to dress myself in a flattering way, but that didn't give them the right to say so) and not about my weight (although I was a lot thinner at school to be fair). And about my hair (my curls were horrible and unmanageable in the past) and my shaving habits. I started shaving my legs fairly late and I was shamed into doing it.

Fruitful

Veteran

As an Australian, I find some American TV to be very oddly filmed (in particular, soaps, talk shows, infomercials and ads). It is all misty and glowy like there is a stocking over the camera. When they import an American ad and just dub it with an Australian voice, I can always tell by that fuzzy look!

I can't stand that, it's such a cheap trick. TV is more beautiful to me when it's vibrant and clear.

I never thought about this playing into body image, I assumed everyone knew it was a trick. But know or not, it leaves an impression, and repeated impressions can build a worldview.

JennyAnne

(website)

Veteran

Frutiful, that's a great description of US tv-style - "fuzzy" I absolutely know what goes into magazine photo shoots, yet I still sometimes thing "wow, that woman is so beautiful" and of course by comparison, I'm not. I have to remember to focus on the clothes when I read those magazines.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

What a great thread, Scarlet!

FWIW, your perceptions of body image/mags/tv in Germany sound very much the same as my perceptions of the Netherlands and France - even London. You are definitely onto something.

Anonymous

It is indeed interesting how young people claim to be individualistic, and yet it's THEIR age group that is most comformist and most critical of others' appearance.

lyn*

(website)

Veteran

Fruitful, that's an interesting observation - my family is from HK and my dad always says that there isn't enough "fuzziness" used in North American commercials! There's a TON used in the old Star Trek TV show (TOS, for Trekkies); and you can definitely notice a huge contrast when they do a closeup of a female character vs. male.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

I think both your theories are right, Scarlet. It IS different in Europe. The aesthetic ideal is not the same. Images in America are always "cleaned up" and perfected, polished to a degree well beyond polish. Whereas, there is a bit of RATE built in to every Eurochic, lol.

But I also think you are probably more immune to the pressure because you are more mature and at a different phase of life. Younger women feel the pressure to be beautiful according to the standards of their time and place and suffer under it more. Either they are coming close in some ways (and are restlessly trying to "perfect" themselves) or they are not coming close (and feel themselves to be failures.) Or, more likely, BOTH!

As we get older we start to recognize that it doesn't matter. We are who we are.

Anonymous

Assuming one learns from one's mistakes and gets smarter and wiser as he/she ages, getting older does have certain advantages.

Jonesy

Veteran

I agree with you and also love Suz's point about the developmental piece of the puzzle.

rachylou

Veteran

I find the English rather weight-obsessed. A lot of talk about eating lettuce. So I wonder if the American obsession with weight is some how a tie-in to this, with our dominant-culture roots in the English..

But I think the other thing about America is that we believe we can and should make everything better all the time. America is all about "a better life." Does anyone remember '80s supermodel Pauline Porizkova - eh, can't spell her name - and her bad teeth? I think she was from eastern Europe. She never showed her teeth when she smiled, then she got here and got caps.

HelenInCanada

Veteran

Not crackpot at all - so true. I think the first time I observed this was on a trip to Italy and Greece with my Grade 12 class, where girls who had NEVER experienced (positive) male attention before, who had been ruthlessly criticized for certain features (be it freckles, large thighs, red hair, round cheeks, etc.) were suddenly being chased everywhere we went. Complimented up the ying yang. WHAT a difference it made to their perception of themselves as attractive young women. And what a drag to return to North America's narrow (in the 80s) vision of beauty.

So, yes. Different beauty standards abound. Some cultures are more free with their acceptance of a variety of female beauty. I'll echo Fashionista about the dark skin getting thumbs down, sadly, in some Asian cultures. I'm half Filipino, and although American culture is well-known there, the sight of tanned/dark/black skin automatically depicts poverty or something unattractive. Whitening cremes, check. Staying the hell out of the sun or always walking under a parisol/umbrella in the sunshine, check. It's cultural and historic associations, I think, that drive these standards.

So, don't be brainwashed too easily into pretzelling into the norms!

christieanne

Veteran

You are definitely on to something!

I was recently shocked by a discussion with some male friends (with DH and mixed company - and no kids!) that they actually dislike the images that are presented of the "ideal" Us/Madison Ave/Hollywood beauty. It was quite reassuring to find out that at least in public they said they didn't buy into the stereotypes/surgically enhanced and unrealistic skinniness presented as the ideal. At least I found out i have some cool friends

Fruitful

Veteran

This is a fascinating conversation! JennyAnne, it is so true that logic alone isn't enough to stop the images seeping into our consciousness. Lyn, could there be 2 kinds of fuzzy filming :)? Because I'm quite happy with the old Star-Trekky kind; if it's what I'm thinking of, it looks almost painterly; whereas the kind I was talking about is just annoying

Scarlet

Veteran

Rachylou, good point about teeth! I was having a conversation with some coworkers about how teeth in the U.S. are so important and how celebrities get caps and all. They were so shocked.

Thanks for all of your comments. I really enjoyed reading this thread. It's also really interesting to know other people notice this tv thing.

It's definitely true that growing up one usually gains more self acceptance and confidence, but I don't think that is the only thing going on with me. I really think it's different here and just easier to be a little less "done".

Kristin L

Veteran

Thanks for bringing this up. I had never thought about differences between the European and Aussie/NZ mindsets and the US mindset. Every time I've seen photos of European women (either in magazines or what I remember from a 3 week study abroad trip), I've always been amazed at how they all look so beautiful in every size and shape. I think you're on to something with not being bombarded with photoshopped pictures and more than a few stats who look unhealthily thin.